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raymb1 #213703 09/02/13 05:31 PM
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Ray, we're not talking about showing BIAB to your listeners! We're talking about making it easier for people like you to use so you can create even more, even better. It is a fact that improvements in the GUI of the software can improve your workflow.

All these comments of "It is fine like it is" and "we don't need no fancy GUI" must sound very much like the the cries of the last buggy builders after Henry Ford came along! smile

Bottom line is if you are happy with the status quo then good for you! I am happy for you! But the rest of us would love to see the BIAB GUI move into the 21st century!

raymb1 #213704 09/02/13 05:37 PM
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Realtracks, realtracks & realtracks... For me, this is the most valuable "technology" avalaible at this moment for music creation.
I work with Biab & Cubase since the Atari times, only midi, and was a great tool for the composers. But, in my opinion, with Realtracks, Biab is now the most sophisticated software to create real music with the unvaluable human touch from so many great musicians.

Realtracks, realtracks & realtracks... is what I need to be happy with Biab.

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I still don't care what it looks like as long as I get the results I want. I have no problems entering songs into BIAB for accompaniment. I have hundreds of tunes in my folders and add more each week. The GUI can change to whatever you want, I just need to know that I can still hit the start bar to play and stop. I can load my sets into jukebox, hit the start bar and close the lid of my laptop. For my purposes, whether the GUI is changed or not doesn't matter to me. Later, Ray


Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
raymb1 #213720 09/02/13 09:58 PM
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Guys, I actually agree with you for my purposes. What I'm talking about here is pure business. Looks sells, end of story. Do you want 2015 or whenever it is to be the last version of Biab? No? Then PG needs to start getting with iPad style and graphics otherwise when us old timers finally stop buying the upgrades, it's all over.

Somebody in the past suggested there should be two versions of Biab and I think I agree with that. There's could be a Biab Classic for us and a brand new Biab Awesome for the younger crowd. Probably dump all the educational stuff because so many young so called "musicians" could care less about that, make no mention at all about classic jazz, old rock and roll, old country, old latin, well you get it. Anything old. All the styles and RT's with the cute references to real artists only reference people who made it big in the last oh 10-15 years at the most. Ok, go back 20 years since Public Enemy made it into the HOF last year. Pop quiz, anybody reading this who've listened to PE raise their hands. Hall of Fame folks and most here have no clue. Do I like PE? Heck no but it's not about me or anybody else over 45 or so. I'm just talking about reality. Time marches on, music marches on with or without us.

Start with a clean slate, 64 bit, looking like a cross between Studio One and the new Starship Enterprise. If all the old timers go "what the hell is this?" that means they got it right.

Bob


Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
raymb1 #213721 09/02/13 10:09 PM
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Bob, I can certainly agree with at least one of your points. I had no idea who Public Enemy is. And now, after looking them up, I can safely say I have never heard their music.


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joden #213722 09/02/13 10:21 PM
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Gotta chime in on your "great looks required for popularity" thesis.

Having spent a LOT of years in the major music industry...on the publishing side, I can say that while "looks" generally don't hurt they are not now nor ever have been a "must have" feature for recording artists.

The examples are legion but I just put into evidence Momma Cass...Janis Joplin and even Striesand back in the day...or K.D Lange...or more recently Amy Weingarten or Adele (who MIGHT be a "classic beauty" minus 85 lbs but certainly not now...no disrespect intended).

Raw talent has always in the past and always will in the future trump raw looks.

Pretty much the same for the men. Sammy Davis and Tony Bennett probably couldn't have gotten Prom dates if they couldn't sing so fantastically well...and Neil Sedaka probably never went to a Prom that he didn't play at!!!

(-:

Best,

Jim

raymb1 #213724 09/03/13 12:25 AM
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For me BIAB's interface looks poor, in two ways - artistically its old fashioned, but more importantly it permanently shows stuff you don't ever need like LSB. Also guitars become violins and banjos - that's not even logical.

Throwing something else into the mix, programs like Melodyne (I think) and Cubase, can show an audio stream as notes on a stave. I am wondering/hoping, that the Scoring functions of BIAB new might do this. It would not work with say a wailing harmonica, but it could work for a lot of instruments. the notation page is at the moment pretty buggy, but it would be good for readers to see scores for individual instruments, where possible


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jazzmammal #213725 09/03/13 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Guys, I actually agree with you for my purposes. What I'm talking about here is pure business. Looks sells, end of story. Do you want 2015 or whenever it is to be the last version of Biab? No? Then PG needs to start getting with iPad style and graphics otherwise when us old timers finally stop buying the upgrades, it's all over.

Somebody in the past suggested there should be two versions of Biab and I think I agree with that. There's could be a Biab Classic for us and a brand new Biab Awesome for the younger crowd. Probably dump all the educational stuff because so many young so called "musicians" could care less about that, make no mention at all about classic jazz, old rock and roll, old country, old latin, well you get it. Anything old. All the styles and RT's with the cute references to real artists only reference people who made it big in the last oh 10-15 years at the most. Ok, go back 20 years since Public Enemy made it into the HOF last year. Pop quiz, anybody reading this who've listened to PE raise their hands. Hall of Fame folks and most here have no clue. Do I like PE? Heck no but it's not about me or anybody else over 45 or so. I'm just talking about reality. Time marches on, music marches on with or without us.

Start with a clean slate, 64 bit, looking like a cross between Studio One and the new Starship Enterprise. If all the old timers go "what the hell is this?" that means they got it right.

Bob

Bob, you are dead on! PG should hire you as a marketing/Product Development consultant! Most companies are busy working on porting their sophisticated 2013 Win/Mac GUIs to mobile while BIAB is still sporting its 1992 era Windows 3.1 interface! And you are right about the approach...putting lipstick on this, er, GUI just won't cut it!

With the technology PG has under the hood, which is nothing short of AMAZING, can you imagine how a new sleek 64-bit version with an improved modern GUI would be received by the industry? It would blow everything else away and assure PG of being the leader in this arena indefinitely!

raymb1 #213729 09/03/13 05:37 AM
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My guess is that BIAB's medium to long term future will depend on how the iRealb market develops as that app and others like it become more sophisticated and fully featured.

Already it has the advantage of low cost and while it's nowhere near on the level of BIAB as a production tool for live gigging, as a practice tool it's certainly looking as if it will eventually cut deeply into the potential market for BIAB in the future especially among younger buyers.

The Android/Apple mobile app phenomenon is a problem for BIAB. Its decision to link its own phone app to the desktop version linked by server rather than have a stand-alone version shows the need to protect its existing desktop market investment at all costs. How BIAB copes with these developments is anyone's guess but BIAB for Android as it currently stands isn't going to do it any favours.

Regards

Alan

alan S. #213778 09/03/13 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: alan S.
My guess is that BIAB's medium to long term future will depend on how the iRealb market develops as that app and others like it become more sophisticated and fully featured.

Already it has the advantage of low cost and while it's nowhere near on the level of BIAB as a production tool for live gigging, as a practice tool it's certainly looking as if it will eventually cut deeply into the potential market for BIAB in the future especially among younger buyers.

The Android/Apple mobile app phenomenon is a problem for BIAB. Its decision to link its own phone app to the desktop version linked by server rather than have a stand-alone version shows the need to protect its existing desktop market investment at all costs. How BIAB copes with these developments is anyone's guess but BIAB for Android as it currently stands isn't going to do it any favours.


100% agree


BIAB 2024, latest build.
Cerio #213779 09/03/13 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cerio
Originally Posted By: alan S.
My guess is that BIAB's medium to long term future will depend on how the iRealb market develops as that app and others like it become more sophisticated and fully featured.

Already it has the advantage of low cost and while it's nowhere near on the level of BIAB as a production tool for live gigging, as a practice tool it's certainly looking as if it will eventually cut deeply into the potential market for BIAB in the future especially among younger buyers.

The Android/Apple mobile app phenomenon is a problem for BIAB. Its decision to link its own phone app to the desktop version linked by server rather than have a stand-alone version shows the need to protect its existing desktop market investment at all costs. How BIAB copes with these developments is anyone's guess but BIAB for Android as it currently stands isn't going to do it any favours.


100% agree


+100000

We can only hope that the "six sigma event" of PG not releasing a mid-year version* results from their agreement and action with respect to the above.

*PG CAN release a 2013.5 version but they cannot release a mid-year version by definition.

(-:

Jim

seeker #213792 09/03/13 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: seeker
Biggest problem I see is you(users) need have some amount of music background, and also computer/technical savy. Also a strong desire to dig, try, read, listen and pursue what PG Music has presented to us.


Agree with FrankB, and let me point out that as my avatar say, I'm no expert here and do not pretend to be one, but I'm not sure what the obsession with "modernizing" the interface is. Heck, there are certain software interfaces that are not really intuitive at all, and yet they may be perceived to be very "modern". Some music software out there are far more expensive than BIB for what they offer on their "upgrades or updates" which often times are not free or discounted at all. I think that BIB is very vast on what it does and takes a lot of time to fully comprehend (if that is possible with any piece of software). I often times see people in this forum whom are labeled as experts' veterans and so on (nothing wrong with that) which from time to time seem to "discover" stuff that BIB is able to do, that makes me feel real good indeed because I realize then that "I'm not the only one". I for once, prefer the money to go onto new features, RT's, and thing like that. That's where BIB really shines!

Mike B.


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http://www.soundclick.com/blackcatjazzcafeband
cubanpete #213803 09/03/13 04:51 PM
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Great Mike but one question. How do you sell it to a 28 year old who lives with his $600 smartphone and $600 iPad and that graphics style is all he knows? And that's all his friends know. And he thinks you and me are dinosaurs who are brain dead when it comes to high tech.

They're good kids, don't get me wrong, they're respectful and all but when it comes to this stuff they treat you and me like old Aunt Hattie who barely knows how to dial a rotary phone and who never did figure out how to program her VCR which she still uses if the mechanism hasn't died.

Are you active on Facebook?

Are you active on Twitter?

Do you do several hundred texts a day?

Are you constantly video'ing virtually your entire life from your phone in 15 minute chunks and emailing the vids to all your friends like 10 times a day?

Do you know all about Kickstarter, Dropbox, cloud storage?

How about spoofing phone numbers just for laughs?

Do you know about the 2013 Looper awards? Do you know what Looping is and how big it is?

Can you name the national winner of the 2013 Beatboxing contest? Do you know what Beatboxing is?

How about specifically buying your iPad so you can stream live TV from your house to it from anywhere because it's so important to you you and all your friends you just can't live without it?

It doesn't matter if you and I think what the hell use is all of that? This is how the kids are living their lives and any company hoping to sell to them has to understand that.

Unless you know about these things to the point you can talk about them with a 19 year old and not get laughed out of the room as "stupid grandpa" I'll respectfully say you're not really the best one to advise PG. That's why I suggested earlier PG could easily keep a Biab Classic version for all of us who wouldn't want the new "Awesome Cool Dude" Hip Hop, Miley Cyrus, Electronic Dance, Beatboxing 2013 Billboard Awards version that is capable of ReWiring to Abelton Live and any other DAW.

Oh yeah, do you know what Rewire is? Do you know about Ableton Live and why it's an important piece of software to a 25 year old wannabe music producer?

Again, I'm not talking about all these things because I would use them. I'm an old fart too and I may or may not like or use a new version of Biab like I've been talking about. This is simply me coughing up some marketing ideas to bring PG into the future which (shhh, don't look now) is already here.

Bob


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raymb1 #213807 09/03/13 06:05 PM
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Actually Bob - good post smile very valid arguments! I can agree with all of that (personal needs aside)

Dennis

jazzmammal #213809 09/03/13 06:10 PM
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Ok Bob, to your surprise, my answer to most of your questions is YES, I'm active and familiar with most of the stuff you assume I don't know about. I just don't waste my time with the phone on my ear 24-7 and can't afford an IPhone, and believe me, age have nothing to do with it. Another thing is that none of that make great musicians however popular and hip they may be. In order for BIB to appeal or accommodate the crowd you just mentioned would have to change way more than just a new GUI. Have you looked lately at the sounds, styles, melody generator and all that in BIB (rhetorical question)? If BIB were to change its objective and purpose to do what you recommend, it would be BIB no more IMHO. And another thing, I'm not arrogant enough to think that I am the appropriate person to guide BIB on what to do, I wouldn't know how. But as a user I think I have the right to my opinion like everybody else.

Later

Mike B.


Music should be part of your life
http://www.soundclick.com/blackcatjazzcafeband
raymb1 #213813 09/03/13 08:13 PM
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I am of social security age but can pass most of Bob's awareness and usage tests. I would very much like to try the "Awesome Cool Dude" interface. But please just let me keep the jazz styles and RealTracks to use within it.


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Count me in with the classic group of users---those mainly using traditional styles and real tracks. I'd love to delete the majority of styles in my 2013 BIAB---to streamline what I have to wade through. However, I'm sure with deletions, I'd mess something up. It's working so well, now. I always want the latest improvements to the basic operation of the program, horse-power and all that; but, only a select, narrow group of styles for the market I play. And, at my age, that's not going to change, for sure.

raymb1 #213816 09/03/13 09:31 PM
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Hey Larry, since I have the insurance of having all the BIAB files on the supplied external drive, I frequently experiment. I have deleted many RealTracks from my internal hard drive to save space. The RealTracks are so much larger that you can realize meaningful savings [keep in mind, I'm using the larger (by a factor of ten) audiophile version]. The RealDrums come with a few I don't use, also. After that, though, it hardly seems worth the effort to try to streamline further. Style files (and song files) are so much smaller by comparison. Together, all of them are probably smaller than a few RealTracks.



BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Matt Finley #213818 09/03/13 10:41 PM
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Hey Mike, no offense, I was starting to ramble on a bit.

I see most of us are familiar with all this stuff, the difference is we don't give a crap about it.

Biab Awesome Cool Dude. Started as a joke but it's kinda growing on me...

Bob


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I really hope PG's earlier requests for GUI inputs, their current silence and the lack of a 2013.5 all point to something awesome for Christmas! smile

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