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This is a complete orchestral template. http://www.mp3cloud.mobi/Analog1_120strings.wmaThe UT is completed... tried it with some number of various styles. End result every bar, and also every chord change abruptly chops it up. The chord part would understand. However, did change the arrangement deleting groups of chords. Leaving 2-3 blank bars open. On each bar there is an abrupt change. Loses all the flow of the strings. Is there some setting within BIAB that dictates how each bar boundary acts?Am aware that BIAB software does use pieces and parts of a RT to create the sounds we hear. Apparently same thing happens with UT's.
Last edited by seeker; 05/25/14 11:54 PM.
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Frank,
The best way for me to understand UTs (I like your abbreviation so I'm borrowing it if you don't mind) is to think of a UT as a collection of loops.
Let's say you have four bars of something happening in the key of "C". If you insert a "C" in only note 1 of bar 1 the sgu file tells the BIAB or RealBand program here's four bars worth of "C" you can carve up and use as you see fit. If you need four continious bars of "C" material you can use this but I can't force you to use it this way. It may reverse the order of bars, it may slice the four bars into odd and even bars, it may use two of these "C" bars in unison then pickup two more bars elsewhere.
Now let's say you take those same four bars and label each bar as "C". Then the sgu file says there are four bars of "C". The probability of any of them being used in unison decreases dramatically but the possibility that bar 2,3, or 4 will get used is the same as bar 1.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
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Jim, I understand what you are saying. Methinks. Have examined contents of realtrack files. They are piles of little wma's. That is the extent of my knowledge there. Am making assumption that UT's are used the same way. Do not know this, but based on lousy results with some really nice sounding wav templates, do think this is the case. Complex multiple notes same time, don't think is good. Simple wav templates seem to work the best. Now going back to what you have said. Let's say you have four bars of something happening in the key of "C". If you insert a "C" in only note 1 of bar 1 the sgu file tells the BIAB or RealBand program here's four bars worth of "C" you can carve up and use as you see fit. I agree with the software decisions being made. However the blank bars, can also contribute to a nice arrangement flow. Now let's say you take those same four bars and label each bar as "C". Then the sgu file says there are four bars of "C". The probability of any of them being used in unison decreases dramatically but the possibility that bar 2,3, or 4 will get used is the same as bar 1. My undertstanding is every time a chord is played in the sgu a new action takes place. Would guess its a forced action. This would break up strings, choirs, and other long held voices. Experience is not necessarily the best teacher.I have some number of completed tracks, just sitting there. The note complexity is enemy number one for me. We are not creating a realtrack, or anyway don't think we are. Based on that premise we do not have a Folder with all the WMA files in it. Anyway some more thoughts. Jim, I appreciate your inputs. They are actually very similar to my own deductions. Thank you
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Completed 3 more UT's and they all sounded like PHZZZZZZZ. This link is another one I did not post, but based on its arrangement does pretty good. Pretty good does not hack it tho. Towards the end are couple of audio anomalies. Am going to make a post on BIAB forum regarding VSTi's. They are on key, but distorted. The tempo on this is 85, ways down from 120. The entire piece is Gm chords only. 1 Gm 3 blank measures, 1 Gm 3 blank measures etc. It does pertain to our above discussion. Got lucky several times, for did regenerate three times. They all sounded decent. The choir is the UT. http://www.mp3cloud.mobi/CHAKRA2DemoWithChoirUT.WMA
Last edited by seeker; 05/26/14 04:16 PM.
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Frank, deductions is a good word to use. Every statement I make should be considered a deduction or assumtion and not a fact.
It SHOULD be easy to add blank measures in UT but, in practice such is not the case. You can record one or more blank bars then use the sgu file to label the blank bars a chord name you will never use. But, what happens when the UT is transposed? What happens when you write a chord that is not in your UT and the program searches the UT sgu for a replacement chord? Part of the learning process is figuring out what the program needs, expects and how it will use what it is given to work with.
Normally, shots, holds and rests are treated as special cases and contained in a separate file. I'm reasonably sure such is the case with UT but I haven't run across a template for this yet.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Jim, Did about 3 hours of chores this morning so now I can tinker... You make some very good points. Also some amount of my statements are opinions, but not wild ones. What happens when you write a chord that is not in your UT and
the program searches the UT sgu for a replacement chord? the answer to this. During auditioning several times have had some measures that were silent for that chord. Regenerating yielded same results. Still mentally and physically wiped out from this last week. But last night did have fun auditioning 3 new Paks for Rapture and 2 for Dim Pro. The Rapture paks tend to be more modern sounds, but do have some nice slow music sounds. Later
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Have a look in the Accordion, Rhythm Crossover Sw16 075 folder and open the SGUs in RB.
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solidrock,
I just played on the sgu's and intial takeaway was ...
I do think your method of the chord extensions is pretty cool.
The ... really extends.
Have date with chores including weedeating for a few hours.
Very heavy fire threat where we live.
Have many more questions.
I thank you for the response!
bit later
And it is.
Played every SGU in your folder.
3 things on this subject do not understand.
1. You are using mulitple SGU's.
Was not aware that BIAB would read these as UserTrack engine is working.
2. Doesn't seem like your template fit the BIAB version.
Have no idea what is going on there.
3. The tempo's totally throw me off.
Have tried creating T-80 and it made me want to throw up.
Apparently FrankB does not grasp the "mechanics" of the UserTracks.
Feel just like I did fall off the turnip truck last week, right on my head.
MeThinks next order for FrankB is to go back and review the last months of the
UserTrack forum.
Again, Thank you.
Last edited by seeker; 05/31/14 11:57 AM.
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You are using the simple basic 32 bar UT Contest template, maybe if you try using the templates in "PG's" Accordion, Rhythm Crossover Sw16 075 folder and change Tempo/Style to suite, you might get better results:
Song 1 is 240 bar
Song 2 Endings 24 Bar ....
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solidrock,
Two late, am have just uploaded a nice bass UT to my site.
Guess it really went by me, but "Contest" template. News to me..
After watching the 16 minute video Jareth put out, thought that was the ballgame.
Like I said, have to go back and review and learn from what you folks have
done.
Your UT has the sgu templates in them.
Are they from BIAB folks?
or
Did you create them?
Thank you.
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...Your UT has the sgu templates in them.
Are they from BIAB folks? or Did you create them? That is the UT Sample and Templates that comes with BB2014 It is the same one I think Jareth did in the video only more extensive. I don't think they have the Shots n Holds worked out yet because if you use that UT and put Holds in it just plays through them. >> How do I get the Shots n Holds to work ?
Shots and Holds are not supported yet for UserTracks, so you shouldn't record any. That was a mistake in that template to include them. 
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solidrock,
Do not fully understand how all the pieces above work.
But this is outstanding. My earliest wishes were to create slow UT's to support
ambient, new age, easy listening music.
I will have more questions I'm sure, but will go back to the folder and examine in more detail.
Ending, first, second, third songs do throw me off a bit.
But let me load each, probably print the Sheets for each and then go from there.
I've probably spent 80-100 hours this last week to 10 days working to crawl to where I am.
Burned a lot of lamp oil past midnights.
Just your help has place a complete menu in front of me.
Did pick up on Jareth's comments about the downloadable templates, but got already had them.
NOT..... I had the 1 minute templates.
Sport is the wrong word, maybe but learning how to do this better will be great.
Thank you again. Until I get this nailed down my current UT output will stop.
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Not meant to be a Bump...Counter does not "Count".
solidrock.
Think the 1 minute template is being used in the video.
Hence my screw-up.
Went to the download page for the templates.
After reviewing yours couple of questions.
In your Accordian folder there is One memo.txt file.
That leads me to believe All of the Song.sgu's could be used. Correct ?
With my short experience bt1 and bt2 appear to be created when UT is used.
This is about folks who are playing and recording instruments.
Does a recording have to be created for each Song.sgu?
That is enough for now.
Thank you!
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I've probably spent 80-100 hours this last week to 10 days working to crawl to where I am. Burned a lot of lamp oil past midnights. (we are all very proud of you, you are very brave, once you have worked it all out you can teach us !  )In your Accordian folder there is One memo.txt file.That leads me to believe All of the Song.sgu's could be used. Correct ? (yes just copy and rename the front part I would say)With my short experience bt1 and bt2 appear to be created when UT is used. (yes BB/RB makes them)This is about folks who are playing and recording instruments. Does a recording have to be created for each Song.sgu?(yes but I would just do Song1 & Song2 Endings for a start and see what results you get, it depends on how many candles you have left to burn)Thank you! Frome http://www.pgmusic.com/usertracks1.htm : Pop UserTracks Advanced Templates Making advanced UserTracks is basically exactly the same process as making UserTracks from the basic 1-minute template. The only difference is that instead of recording one song, you record multiple songs. The benefits of recording the longer templates are: More material recorded means more variety from bar-to-bar when the UserTrack is used. Both major and minor endings will work. More chord types are included. For example, if you're using a UserTrack made from the 1-minute template, if a user enters Em9, it will simply play Em. But, if you've recorded a longer template that includes m9 chords, you can make sure it actually plays a m9. Commonly used Slash chords are included, for example C/E, G/D, Am/G. 10-minute template: Pop UserTracks 10 minute template.zip This template is approximately 10 minutes of total recorded material at a tempo of 120bpm (the time increases with slower tempos, and decreases with faster tempos). With this template, in addition to major, minor & 7 chords that are included in the 1 minute template, it also includes diminished & sus chords, and also has more material for chords that last for 4 bars or longer. 20-minute template: Pop UserTracks 20 minute template.zipThis template is approximately 20 minutes of total recorded material at a tempo of 120bpm (the time increases with slower tempos, and decreases with faster tempos). With this template, in addition to everything in the 10-minute template, it also includes additional “fancy” chords such as m7b5, aug, etc. It also includes more material with maj, m & 7 chords for added variety in your UserTrack. 30-minute template: Pop UserTracks 30 minute template.zipThis template is approximately 30 minutes of total recorded material at a tempo of 120bpm (the time increases with slower tempos, and decreases with faster tempos). With this template, in addition to everything in the 20-minute template, it also includes many more chord types, such as 7b9, m11, etc. It also includes commonly used slash chords, such as C/E, G/D, etc. Finally, it also includes some jazz chords used in a song context.
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solidrock,
Been burning things up since the last post...
I did find and download the 10,20,and 30 minute versions.
Also printed to PDF and created an assembled PDF leadsheet of your Song1.
I think you are right on the song 1 & endings.
You got me all worked up again... Was right on edge of putting things aside.
I do understand why more folks have not stepped into this arena.
Too far along now.
Sheez got my Komplete Essential software yesterday. That title is all I know
about it... Very small, but nice voicing for later UT use.
Thank you so much for you time and efforts.
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