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#267150 - 11/01/14 07:13 PM [User Showcase] New Song: Fallin'
Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 38
Loc: Iowa
JPeden73 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 38
Loc: Iowa
Hello all,

Here is a quick little tune I put together with some new Realtracks I recently acquired. Maybe its a tribute to daylight savings time? Here is the rundown:

RealTrack ~520 Bass Electric Pop Halfnotes
RealTrack ~523 Acoustic Guitar, Fingerpicking
RealTrack ~545 Electric Guitar, Dreamy
RealDrums Nashville Outlaw

The other bits are me. Thanks for listening. Tips and advice appreciated as always.

Fallin'

Lyrics:
It was a day just like today
we started out not long ago.
It was just the two of us
me with the doubts you in the know

Now I'm falling away from here
Feel I'm falling away from here

And you once sat next to me
underneath an August moon.
And you sang a melody and I
can still hear the tune.

Now I'm falling away from here
Feel I'm falling away from here
Oh I would fall back through the years again with you.

It was a day just like today
that we strolled through the trees.
And I hear things you used to say -
They still linger in the breeze.

Now I'm falling away from here
Feel I'm falling away from here
Oh I would fall back through the years again with you.

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#267152 - 11/01/14 07:34 PM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
I like it!

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#267155 - 11/01/14 08:05 PM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 147
Curt Young Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 147
Very nice...

Has a "John Denver" flavor to it, I think.

Hope you don't mind the comparison.

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#267163 - 11/01/14 10:30 PM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 6379
Loc: Davis, CA
Greg Johnson Offline
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Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 6379
Loc: Davis, CA
Vibe is beautiful! Vocal is beautiful! Really pretty song. Too me, the drums might at times be too aggressive (especially with the snare)-I hear more tambourine and maybe a cello. As nice as the sax is, I don't feel it's the right instrument for the song. Maybe a mellow pedal steel. The feel of the song is absolutely wonderful. Great work!! Take care. Greg

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#267167 - 11/01/14 11:43 PM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6543
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6543
Loc: South Carolina
Nice song. I enjoyed it.

Charlie
_________________________
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2021:RB 2021, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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#267171 - 11/02/14 05:57 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2426
Loc: Warwickshire, UK
Skyline Offline
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Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2426
Loc: Warwickshire, UK
That's a super song JP! What a beautiful voice you have.
I agree with Greg, the sax gave me a jolt whenever it came in.

John
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#267172 - 11/02/14 07:04 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
there's an awful lot about this song that I like... but having listened a few times, I agree about the sax. John nailed it when he said it gave him a jolt... I think this song cries out for something much softer than a sax.. maybe a cello as Greg suggested. In fact I think as the song progresses a whole string section would escalate the beautiful mood you have already introduced quite successfully. When you've got a good thing going... ramp it up a notch!

Regarding the snare, it appeared at a point in the song where nothing else changed, and therefore the change seemed premature (to me). A safe place to bring in the snare would be at the place where you currently have the sax starting. Same thing for the wood block or whatever that quieter percussive sound is that predates the snare... it could easily wait until the verse changes

At the end, there's a double bass note where everything else is ending with a single sustained note. It may be an intentional allowance to capture that "real player variation" vibe... but if it's just there because that's the way the real track ended, I'd probably keep regenerating the last bar of the bass track until I got a single sustained note.

I've listened your other songs, and you can really sing! If the Eagles-esque backing vocals in the song that follows this one are all you, you have a real strength you aren't exploring to the fullest! If I could do that, all my songs would be richly layered with vocal harmonies used as pads.

In fact the more I listen to your other songs and get a feel for your natural style... I'd rethink the sax in all of them. Your music is all fresh air and sunshine, but a solo sax screams smoky urban club. To my sensibilities, the switch in mood creates cognitive dissonance. Dan Fogelberg's music was similar to yours, and he frequently used brass ensembles... but his approach was different, and I can't articulate exactly what that difference is.

In spite of what must seem like negative comments, I really like your songs a lot. I'm only taking the time to make refining suggestions because your songs are good and could be great. I look forward to hearing more from you... welcome to the PGMusic forum!


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#267180 - 11/02/14 09:16 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2873
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
boehm Offline
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Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2873
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
Hi Jeff,

I like the song. And I like the sax. Maybe it's just mixed a little bit loud. That happens when you play the instrument yourself and you don't want to miss a single bit of it.
Enjoyable listen.

Guenter
_________________________
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Latest Song: What You Desire

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#267185 - 11/02/14 10:32 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4791
Sundance Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4791
Hi Jeff,

Love your voice and the harmonies. Like the song. And I'm going with Guenter on this one - I like the sax - I think it fits the happy place you're going in the song. To me, all it needs is bringing it down and adding some FX to send it back so it's blending in the overall sound of the mix better. I was expecting more of the sax soloing and trailing out over the music at the end.

Josie

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#267190 - 11/02/14 10:58 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: Sundance]
Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
jgottlied Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
First let me say, "GREAT SONG"! I really enjoyed it and it did have a John Denver feel to it without sounding like something I have heard already. As someone who has played sax, I understand the fine line between a smooth blend into the music and the stark jolt that some of the commenters mentioned. The sax is played beautifully and I believe would fit the song if it were a little softer in the mix. The rest of the song seems delicate and the sax should be too. It is a difficult trick to find the right balance in the mix. I struggle with it often and that is the main reason that many of my songs rely solely on BB instrumentation. Still, I have found that a sax is one instrument that people either love or hate in a song.

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#267194 - 11/02/14 11:19 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 38
Loc: Iowa
JPeden73 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 38
Loc: Iowa
Thanks for all of the comments - truly invaluable feedback!

Greg, John and Pat - The sax part came to me pretty early on this one. I knew I was taking a little risk as it's not the normal instrument for this style, but I thought if I kept it simple it could work. Thanks for weighing in on this.

Pat - Thanks for the careful listen. The bass part at the end totally got by me. At this stage, I still tend to miss those things. And the drums are still a challenge for me as far as mixing goes. It seems that depending on where I listen (headphones, speakers, car etc...) they sound different. But the intent wasn't to distract certainly, so I'll experiment a bit more.

Guenter - You are right on about leveling the sax part. I actually had it quite a bit louder originally and turned it down to where it is.

Josie - Thanks for listening. I was indeed striving for a happier mood with the sax, so I'm glad that came across to you. I will say that recording the sax has been difficult for me, which is frustrating since it's my most comfortable instrument.

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#267196 - 11/02/14 11:25 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
jgottlied Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
One suggestion you might try for recording sax, if you have the room, is to have a couple mics in the distance or another room and then drop the level on the main mic down to match or be just above the ambient mics. Most people love the trailing sound of a sax in the distance and with this technique you can often achieve that effect. You can also achieve the same sound with certain electronic effects but I have always had trouble dialing them in just right.


Edited by jgottlied (11/02/14 11:30 AM)

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#267200 - 11/02/14 11:41 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
I would have made all the same sax-related comments about Gerry Rafferty's BAKER STREET... it was also a light and airy tune , but the signature sax intro is still the defining feature of the song, and it was enormously popular.

Bottom line, stand your ground.
Musical Taste is highly subjective, and nobody has EVER created a song that EVERYBODY likes.

Most of us try to create songs WE like, and then we hope others do too. This seems to work out pretty well. wink

By the way, I didn't realize you played the sax part until Guenter pointed it out! It was so good, I would have bet money it was a real track! one more awesome talent in your musical toolbox! I'm thoroughly impressed!

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#267203 - 11/02/14 11:48 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
jgottlied Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
I concur with Pat. We make music first and foremost for ourselves. If we don't, we are always going to be disappointed.

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#267245 - 11/02/14 06:12 PM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9560
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9560
Loc: Florida
JP,

An enjoyable listen. I got a Fogelberg "sense", too. Not that it sounded like a Folgelberg song, but had the same (almost undefinable) feel - a good thing. Air-y. Ethereal.

The sax is a little too loud, but I think it could work at the right level. I agree with what Josie said. Down a little and some reverb to set it back in the mix a little. But I think the real culprit is the first couple of notes - sort of a staccato entry - a single note with a volume build might be a better way to introduce the sax there...

The drums did get a little busy a couple of times - almost like your tempo was at the top end of what that RealDrum can handle...

Not to take away from how nice the rest of the song and production were.... Super vocals, btw...

Looking forward to more...

floyd

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#267255 - 11/02/14 10:35 PM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 38
Loc: Iowa
JPeden73 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 38
Loc: Iowa
John - Thanks for the recording tips. My set up is pretty basic at this point, just a single mic tied to my pc. Once my budget permits I'll try your suggestion.

Floyd - Thanks for listening. I never considered the staccato entry until you mentioned it. I altered it a bit. Hopefully, the jolt is a little less now.

Once again, thanks for the encouraging comments. I decided to make a couple of changes based on the above suggestions. I decided to leave the sax part, but I dropped it down a bit. Did the same to the drums (especially the snare). Overall I'm pleased with the end result. Here is the new version if you care to listen:

Fallin' New Version


Thanks again for all the help!

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#267259 - 11/03/14 12:14 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
jgottlied Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
I really like this song. I'm not sure that I noticed the changes much, but I liked the original post also. I think the sax is a bit softer, so some may be pleased with that change. I think with your current recording setup, you may want to experiment with adding some electronic reverb when you record your sax. I personally like to experiment with room orientation/size and multiple mic placements to try and get that sweet sax that most listeners seem to like. That Kenny G type of haunting tone. I played alto sax for years and learned that when I faced away from a listener, so they would hear the ambient tones, they preferred the sound as opposed to when they caught the sound direct with little ambient tone or reverb. It is really a minor thing that doesn't make a big difference to some and makes all the difference to others. I think saxophones and clarinets are some of the most expressive and versatile instruments available, but are also the ones that often generate the strongest opinions. You play wonderfully (I have listened to several of your songs) and I wouldn't want you to get discouraged or to quit adding your sax playing because some listeners don't find the recorded tone appealing. Great job and please keep the sax in your music.


Edited by jgottlied (11/03/14 12:16 AM)

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#267272 - 11/03/14 07:37 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
absolutely LOVE the latest rev! yep, all the sax really needed was a softer spot in the mix! and you nailed the bass in the ending!

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#267285 - 11/03/14 08:35 AM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 3477
Loc: Florida
tommyad Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 3477
Loc: Florida
JP, Really nice song and fantastic vocals. I agree that the sax volume should be reduced, maybe a little delay and/or reverb would make sit in the mix better. Very well played. As much as i like this song I have to say I think it's the wrong drum track. As Pat noted it could be brought in at a different spot and as floyd noted the drum fills are a little fast. I am sure with some searching you could find a more appropriate drum part. I hope you take this constructive criticism the way it was intended because I really like the song and look forward to your contributions to the forum. Thanks for posting, Tom

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#267299 - 11/03/14 12:18 PM [User Showcase] Re: New Song: Fallin' [Re: JPeden73]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6543
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6543
Loc: South Carolina
Your re-mix made a delightful song even better. Regarding the "feel" of the song, it feels closer to a Fogelberg sound than a Denver sound but for me, Randy VanWarmer best describes the feel/sense of the song. Your sax work is really good and your lead and backing vocals are awesome. It would be interesting to see what you could develop adding more backing vocals. There are plenty of opportunities.

You've got a lot of good things going on here and this is a fine piece the way it is. The only drawback remaining for me is the drums still do not fit the overall sense of the song and seem too busy although dropping the level a bit helped some.

Thanks for posting and I'm hoping you post again soon.

Charlie
_________________________
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2021:RB 2021, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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