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#296193 - 05/21/15 07:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Using BIAB live
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
lambada Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
I would love to see some videos of users using BIAB live. YouTube has little or nothing. When I finally stop stuffing around, I plan to use BIAB Real Tracks backing me with harmonies on my VoiceLive 2 in an acoustic setting. I also have a Boss Looper (yet to be figured out) and the TC Nova (Fantastic). Right now I just sing and play (lol). What setups are others using?


Edited by lambada (05/21/15 08:00 PM)
_________________________
Windows 10 Home 1809 Build 19037.1
BIAB 2020 (Build 722)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

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#296343 - 05/23/15 03:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4988
Loc: California
Muzic Trax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4988
Loc: California
The Conductor feature in Biab is for live playing (gig etc) with Biab.

I have never used it though. I would check the PG Music Support videos first for a demo of using the Conductor feature for gigging musicians. I would also check YouTube as well. There are alot of Biab videos on YouTube.

Trax

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#296673 - 05/26/15 06:51 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: Muzic Trax]
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
lambada Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
True, but no videos of anyone using BIAB live. Just curious. There is one of a guy organising a jazz choir, but.... I would love to see a singer/guitarist using real tracks in a live environment. If not, I'll do it cool smile assuming I ever get my audio back on my windows tablet.
_________________________
Windows 10 Home 1809 Build 19037.1
BIAB 2020 (Build 722)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

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#296683 - 05/26/15 08:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6595
Loc: USA
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6595
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: lambada
True, but no videos of anyone using BIAB live. Just curious. There is one of a guy organising a jazz choir, but.... I would love to see a singer/guitarist using real tracks in a live environment. If not, I'll do it cool smile assuming I ever get my audio back on my windows tablet.


Not sure what you are asking for lamdada, I along with many others use BIAB live at hundreds of gigs but I do not have any videos or tutorials. I also do live eConcerts using BIAB, if you follow via the FB link below you can find the dates and times. Also if you sign into one of the venue you can ask me any questions you like about my setup including BIAB I will be happy to answer in real time.

Hope this helps.
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

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#296709 - 05/26/15 01:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5745
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5745
Loc: South Carolina
I know that Joanne Cooper (JosieC here on the forum) has used BIAB tracks on some of her StreetJelly live, streaming concerts in the past. She presents concerts there on a fairly regular basis so you may want to watch some.

Even if you catch a performance that she is not using backing tracks, her concerts are always fun and entertaining and worth the time you spend.
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BiaB Ultra Pak+ 2020:RB 2020: Dell Inspiron AIO Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, 7th Generation AMD A9-9425 Processor Five Core 3100 Mhz and 16GB DDR4 Memory.

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#296811 - 05/27/15 06:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
tonnie Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
Sorry I have no videos of me playing live with BiaB, however I can tell you how I use it.

First I use BiaB, since each playback is somewhat different, which I as a jazz oriented player prefer.

Secondly I play guitar though a pedal board into a guitar amp, but also via a Roland GR-33 guitar synth into my stereo PA, a Fender Passport 150.

From my laptop I split the BiaB output via a Roland UM one into an UA-1 X (for Real Sounds) and Roland XV-5050 (For MIDI sound) and (MIDI) Output Chords to my TC-Helicon Voice Works (For “Close Harmony” singing “Four Freshmen”-style),

The Real and Midi sounds are mixed together with the aid of a small (4 channel mixer) and then go through a 3 way crossover filter. The output of the treble and middle tones are sent (in stereo) to the mixer part of the Passport, while the bass part is send to two Gallien-Krueger bass amps.

This way the bass, bass drum and the lower end of the piano do not “burden” the small Passport speakers and can be fully controlled separately.

The outputs from the TC-Helicon Voice Works go in stereo via an Antares AVP-1 and into the Passport mixer.

So this way I can play guitar (and/or any instrument sound available from GR-33) and/or sing in full stereo to my own arrangements.

NB. There is a small limitation when using the “Output Chords” function with the Voice Works, as it only “understands” 4-note chords (Gmaj7b5 is OK, but G9 is not OK).

I avoid this by writing my arrangement with full chords, then freezing the Piano, String, Guitar tracks etc., then simplifying the chords to four note chords, and voila no more misinterpretations by the Voice Works.

Also the use of passing chords makes the others voices in Voice Works work (sing) more professionally.

Hope this helps.
Tonnie

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#296814 - 05/27/15 06:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: tonnie]
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
lambada Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
Brilliant. Very useful. Gives me some ideas for pulling it all together especially as I have the Voicelive 2 and a Roland guitar synth. It must sound very full and professional. I guess plenty of scope for things to go wrong! Quite a different approach from recording in a home studio. I was thinking about freezing the Realtracks, but suspected that a lot of people just render to audio and use a more static backing track approach. Like you, I fancied the idea (in theory) of keeping the flexibility of the Realtracks in the process. Do you use the pedal board to send midi patch commands or just as a guitar effects board? Would love to hear an audio of a live song as I suspect would others.
_________________________
Windows 10 Home 1809 Build 19037.1
BIAB 2020 (Build 722)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

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#296823 - 05/27/15 07:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: tonnie]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4840
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4840
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: tonnie
Sorry I have no videos of me playing live with BiaB, however I can tell you how I use it.

First I use BiaB, since each playback is somewhat different, which I as a jazz oriented player prefer.

Secondly I play guitar though a pedal board into a guitar amp, but also via a Roland GR-33 guitar synth into my stereo PA, a Fender Passport 150.

From my laptop I split the BiaB output via a Roland UM one into an UA-1 X (for Real Sounds) and Roland XV-5050 (For MIDI sound) and (MIDI) Output Chords to my TC-Helicon Voice Works (For “Close Harmony” singing “Four Freshmen”-style),

The Real and Midi sounds are mixed together with the aid of a small (4 channel mixer) and then go through a 3 way crossover filter. The output of the treble and middle tones are sent (in stereo) to the mixer part of the Passport, while the bass part is send to two Gallien-Krueger bass amps.

This way the bass, bass drum and the lower end of the piano do not “burden” the small Passport speakers and can be fully controlled separately.

The outputs from the TC-Helicon Voice Works go in stereo via an Antares AVP-1 and into the Passport mixer.

So this way I can play guitar (and/or any instrument sound available from GR-33) and/or sing in full stereo to my own arrangements.

NB. There is a small limitation when using the “Output Chords” function with the Voice Works, as it only “understands” 4-note chords (Gmaj7b5 is OK, but G9 is not OK).

I avoid this by writing my arrangement with full chords, then freezing the Piano, String, Guitar tracks etc., then simplifying the chords to four note chords, and voila no more misinterpretations by the Voice Works.

Also the use of passing chords makes the others voices in Voice Works work (sing) more professionally.

Hope this helps.
Tonnie






Way to keep it simple, dude. grin

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#296893 - 05/27/15 12:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
tonnie Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
Forgot to tell that most of my stuff is built into a 6 unit, 19" rack, With wheels, using a snake cable to connect most of my stuff to the amps. So it may sound complicated, but it sounds great!

Tonnie

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#296899 - 05/27/15 12:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20297
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20297
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Just a note about getting the best sound live:

Whether you use a laptop or an MP3 player etc. to play the backing tracks, be sure to turn up that laptop/player as far as you can without distortion, and then adjust the volume on the PA. You will ensure you are hearing the best quality sound. The principle of doing this is called gain staging.
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#296930 - 05/27/15 03:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7463
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7463
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
The other point to make here is most folks don't actually use Biab itself live. They use Biab at home to produce the tracks that they convert to wav's or MP3's. They then use a laptop, their phone or whatever else to play back the tracks on the gig.

The question to answer is will you be making changes to Biab's playback live on a gig or just letting it play through to the end of your songs? If it's the latter no need to mess around with a laptop and all the stuff needed. Keep it simple and just playback the files.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#296940 - 05/27/15 04:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6595
Loc: USA
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6595
Loc: USA
lamdada,

I use BIAB "live" no mp3's no wav etc. Just like it comes out of the can so to say.

Guitar in to Bose LII through a pedal board and mic in through the Vocalist Live 4. As Matt says, as much volume as you can get through the laptop (without going crazy) and then adjust out volume through your mixer. For me it's is the Bose Mixer, I forget what Bose calls it, but it is a mixer none the less.

I have been playing 75-100 gigs a year plus some Street Jelly and Concert Window eConcerts for the past 12-14 years, or at least since I discovered BIAB. I am told the sound is wonderful, but hey some people are just very nice. LOL

If you would like more detailed info, drop me a PM and I will be happy to give you a call so we can talk further.

Later,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

The More You Drink The Better I Sound

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#297002 - 05/27/15 09:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: Danny C.]
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
lambada Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
Thanks Danny. Useful. I liked your website and recordings as well. It's nice to read that people are using BIAB or variations out gigging. I appreciate your valuable point Jazzmammal. Thanks Tonnie for all the info and Matt for the info on levels/gain. Also, the other posters. All good. Now just got to find my DXis which are alive and well on my home pc but not my tablet!:-)


Edited by lambada (05/27/15 10:00 PM)
_________________________
Windows 10 Home 1809 Build 19037.1
BIAB 2020 (Build 722)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

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#297023 - 05/28/15 04:18 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
tonnie Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
The only USB pedal I use, is to stop my Laptop from playing back my BiaB arrangement, in case a toast master or similar wants to say something, which more often than not is in the middle of a song I might be playing.

I would prefer to be able to fade out in stead, but that seems not possible at the moment.

Brgds,
Tonnie

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#297024 - 05/28/15 04:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4840
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4840
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: lambada
I would love to see some videos of users using BIAB live. YouTube has little or nothing. When I finally stop stuffing around, I plan to use BIAB Real Tracks backing me with harmonies on my VoiceLive 2 in an acoustic setting. I also have a Boss Looper (yet to be figured out) and the TC Nova (Fantastic). Right now I just sing and play (lol). What setups are others using?





What sort of places do you plan to play? All of these toys are cool, but in the real world, very complicated for live performance.

Step One: Get a stopwatch: start the timer, pick a song, load it into BIAB, generate it, then set your VoiceLive 2 for whatever harmonies you need, set the parameters on your TC Nova, your Roland guitar synth, and your Boss Looper and hit play. (by the way, your guitar is in tune, and your mic's not feeding back right?) Stop the watch. Time?

Step Two: Pick another song and repeat the process. Remember, you're doing all of this on a dark stage on a tablet.

You might be completely happy with three or five minutes between songs, but if you're playing in a bar, chances are that you've lost your audience by then. Dead air is deadly, unless you are also a very good comedian. grin



Regards,

Bob

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#297049 - 05/28/15 08:43 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
lambada Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
:-) Bob, very true. At the moment I just sing and play guitar, but I would like to get some millage out of the gear gathered over the years. We shall see. At least I'm getting some good pointers. The Voicelive 3 extreme might have a few people licking their lips though smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wl9B6Rg5f4


Edited by lambada (05/28/15 08:48 AM)
_________________________
Windows 10 Home 1809 Build 19037.1
BIAB 2020 (Build 722)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

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#297051 - 05/28/15 09:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 110
Loc: Goshen, Indiana
Takamine Offline
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Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 110
Loc: Goshen, Indiana
After creating a song in BIAB, I drop it into a DAW and add additional parts (if needed). When creating the song in BIAB, I often add a couple of bars of held chords in case I want to use those somewhere in the final mix. Once all is done and the beginning and ending are adjusted to my liking, I save the song as a WAV file and play that through my laptop for live performances.

To me, there are at least three issues with using BIAB in a live performance.
1. Time lag when generating tracks, although locking the parts would help with that.
2. Making sure midi instruments are routed properly.
3. BIAB periodically drops an instrument from the track. Not a major deal in the studio, but a real pain if using it live.

This is what works best for me, but there are other talented people on this board that use a totally different workflow and if it works for them, that's fine with me.

Best


Edited by Takamine (05/28/15 09:09 AM)
_________________________
Rich

Windows 10, 64 bit | BIAB 2019 PlusPak | Studio One 2 Artist

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#297404 - 05/29/15 11:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: tonnie]
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
lambada Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1430
Loc: Hong Kong
Hi Tonnie

Just checking out your audio gear and clarifying my thoughts. I realised I already had the Roland UM, but just curious about the UA-1X (now the UA-AEX) and Roland XV-5050. Do you find this makes a huge difference to the sound rather than using the line out from a laptop? I guess it does. I have an SD 20, but was hoping to use soft synths as it would be simpler (I guess I could use the midi sounds in the guitar synth). Also given that I plan to use Realtracks rather than midi tracks I might just use midi for controlling pathches. I guess something similar to the UA-1X would improve Realtracks as well. My Asus tablet only has one USB3 output (a real drag) that runs the hard drive, so I'm not too keen to have other modules using it. (I had to move the realtracks off the internal drive as they were so big.) It does seem like wave files might be much simpler. I guess they also need a good audio out. grin I've been putting everything through a mixer/amp into a little PA. Now I'm wondering if the bass sounds/drums on the realtracks will be too much (lol).


Edited by lambada (05/29/15 11:19 PM)
_________________________
Windows 10 Home 1809 Build 19037.1
BIAB 2020 (Build 722)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic

Top
#297424 - 05/30/15 06:28 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: lambada]
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
tonnie Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
I find that most of the MIDI-sounds coming out of the XV-5050 are very realistic, but of course some are better than others.
I have never found the time to fiddle around with improving the sounds. E.g. the flute, soprano- and alto sax sound great, but tenor- and baritone sax not so great.

There are probably some newer multitimbral units available by now.
Of course I am very much into jazz, so I prefer realistic instrument sounds and asked the forum a while back about soft synths, but I found the answers not satisfactory.

Also my guitar synth (GR-33) also has some sounds that are good and others sound like “toys”!

Real tracks are preferable in jazz and bossa nova, but in some commercial and latin styles, MIDI styles are better (I think).

I run BiaB from my HP laptop’s hard drive and have only USB2 ports.
I use only one into a powered multi USB hub mounted inside my rack.

The Fender Passport 150 PA system I use looks like a Samsonite suitcase, but unpacks into two speaker and one mixer/amp units. Each speaker unit contains 6 speakers, of which the larges four are 5” Ø.

So this is not "big" enough for the faithful reproduction of a bass, bass drum etc. That is why I use the 1 rack unit crossover filter, feeding a.o. in the two bass amps.

But a PA with larger speakers (or with one powerful bass speaker) will simplify your setup.

Hope this answers some of you questions!

Tonnie

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#297425 - 05/30/15 06:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Using BIAB live [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
tonnie Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/01/00
Posts: 318
Loc: Bergen, Norway
Bob,

Loading a song takes less than 30 seconds, but I use that time to announce my next tune.

As I have never played in "outer Space", I must have been playing in the same real world as you.

Tonnie

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