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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 740
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 740 |
I am a guitar player who wants to build backing tracks to play out.
I'm thinking BIAB drums & bass & sometimes keyboards.
Record my own rhythm guitar and perform the lead/solo live.
I need an overview of how to build a backing band using the following gear.
Currently I have biab 2012 PC (win7 64 quad core I7 3ghz 16gb).
I have a MacBook Pro Retina 15 (loaded) with Logic.
I have a Pod X3 for recording the guitars.
I have some familiarity with biab & logic
Some questions
Midi or Real Tracks from Biab
Real Band or Logic.
If I need to purchase biab2015 now i will. Otherwise I will probably purchase later in the year.
If midi should I purchase something like the Roland SC. The midi stuff out of my PC sounds like toys.
A general overview of people's approach would be great to help jump start my effort.
If this has all been covered perhaps just point me to the links
Thanks
biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 393
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 393 |
Lots of tough questions, and you'll probably get all kinds of opinions on them.
midi or Real Tracks - I'd suggest to use both - whichever fits your particular need better (you can edit midi tracks)
Real Band or Logic - depends whether you want to work in Windoze or Mac - BIAB for Mac does not include Real Band, but if you've got Logic you wouldn't need it
midi stuff out of PC sounds like toys - that's a function of whatever midi synthesizer you use - Logic has some good quality midi synths available - probably way better than your default Windoze synth - take some midi creations into Logic, see what you think about the sound
Bruce
Macbook Pro 2018
2.6 GHz 6-core Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM
OS Monterey
BIAB for Mac 2022
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
You might want to keep it simple to start. BIAB using RT's into Real Band, record your rhythm guitar parts, mix and export to WAV or MP3. Real Band has everything you need to make a very good sounding backing track.
My only admonition would be to do your final mixing/mastering through the PA system you intend to use live. A mix can sound great through phones or good monitors, but horrible through a PA.
Regards,
Bob
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 110
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 110 |
Welcome
I'm using BIAB 2013, so I'm not familiar with what features 2012 doesn't have.
For recording and playback, I use a PreSonus AudioBox USB interface which came bundled with Studio One Artist.
Real Tracks generally sound better than MIDI, although for Bass and keys, sometimes I will use MIDI for those. I take the rough tracks from BIAB and drop them into StudioOne for polishing and editing. MIDI parts are dropped into StudioOne and I use the MIDI instruments that came with StudioOne for my sound module.
I'm not familiar with Logic, so I can't help you there. I'm also not a big fan of RealBand for a DAW, but there are some cool features built-in that you can't get in another DAW.
My general approach is to lay out the song in BIAB in a straight line, with no repeats or choruses. If it's an 8 bar song with three choruses, I lay it out as a 24 bar song. At the beginning, I'll add 4 to 8 bars for an intro. At the end, I figure out if I want any repeats and add those bars, as well. After that, I'll add a couple of bars of held chords of the root chord and then let BIAB generate an ending. If there are open parts like the solo or melody, I'll find a solo instrument part that fits in and add it to those tracks. At this point, the more parts the better. Next I'll play around with different drum sub-styles on different parts of the song. Once I get everything close, I export each track as a wave file.
Once I get the individual WAV files of each part, I drag those into StudioOne. As I listen to it now, I decide what parts I want on each verse and chorus and mute the parts I don't want. The parts I added in the last step in BIAB may not be used at all in the final mix or I may use bits and pieces of them a dead spots in a song. The ending of the song is created by using a combination of the BIAB generated ending, the held chords from BIAB or parts in the song.
Sorry this was so long, but hope it helps.
Rich
Windows 10, 64 bit | BIAB 2019 PlusPak | Studio One 2 Artist
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10 |
Before spending money and sweat equity on this project, you would be well-advised to check what your competition is doing at the venues in your area you are considering working at since your end goal is to play out.
While BIAB is a good tool for a lot of purposes and would certainly do well for backing tracks, playing with a "canned band" gets a mixed response in a lot of venues. If there are others working with backing tracks in your area at the venues you want to play at, more power to you. That said, backing tracks will get you laughed out of most venues in my area (which has a surfeit of world-class musicians living and gigging locally). Before getting too heavily invested in backing tracks, make sure they're not going to hinder more than help you in pursuing the end goal.
Take this advice with a grain of salt, but I'm coming up on a 45th anniversary of making music for a living and I reckon that entitles me to an opinion on the subject. As an aside, the only gear I use for 95% of my gigs are a guitar, a mandolin, a dobro and a bouzouki and I usually sing/play unamplified unless there are more than 100 people in the crowd. Your mileage may vary.
Cheers,
Ed
***********************
"We know what we are, but not what we may be"
- Noted bluesman Blind Will Shakespeare
***********************
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,820
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,820 |
I am one of the few musicians here that uses mostly all MIDI. These are my views based on that. There are plus and minuses to both MIDI and RTs/RDs.
If I were you I would for now use RTs and RDs. They will give you instant gratification. The plus side of these is they sound great right out of the box so to speak.
The minus side is you get what they give you. You can cut and paste sections together and in RealBand (which I do not use) you can regenerate areas of your choice. However in most cases you can not get them to play exactly what you might want them to play.
The plus side of MIDI is that you can get them to play exactly what you want them to play. You can add parts, change sounds and notes very easily.(Personally I find this easier than cutting and pasteing RTs/RDs but YMMV).
The minus side of MIDI is that it costs money to get great sounds and you have to learn MIDI to get convincing parts. As you mentioned MIDI sounds from computer motherboards a terrible, but MIDI sounds from more expensive VSTis like Kontakt are quite good. But, and this is a big but, you have to learn how to control MIDI via various MIDI messages (CCs, mod wheel, pitch bend etc. Don't worry its really not hard.) If you buy a good MIDI sound source and drop a BiaB file into it and expect it to sound like a RT good luck. For piano, organ and drums it's great but for wind and string instruments not so great. This is where those messages come in.
So I would start with RTs/RDs. If you want more control I would start with a good MIDI drum sound source for my MIDI drums. Drop a BiaB MIDI drum track into the VSTi and modify it so it fits what you want to do. After you master that do the same with piano and organ and continue to the wind instrument and strings.
I will try to drop a good example of what MIDI can do in the Off-Topic forum a little later.
Again this is just my ideas and it may or may not be what you are looking for.
Good luck from one guitarist to another.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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