Does anyone know of a drum transcription software program. This would analyze a WAV file of drums only, and generate a .mid file of the drum hits, preferably using GM note numbers. We've tried a few that don't work well, so I'm wondering if others have suggestions about ones that do work.
Peter if you bought Tracktion 3 when it was $19 a few years ago, I could send you a Tracktion project file which can do this. You MIGHT be able to do it with RealBand. Here's how it works.
Assumptions: 1. The drum track consists of a relatively low number of 'instruments', say kick, snare, HH, rack tom 1,2,3 and maybe a crash. 2. Each of the items from #1 has a frequency range that can be emphasized, that does not overlap with other of the instruments. 3. In the signal chain, if you cannot apply parallel processing, then you need to do the steps one 'instrument' at a time for the drum track. 4. You can host the ktdrumtrigger vst plugin available here: http://www.koen.smartelectronix.com/KTDrumTrigger/ (free btw)
Here is the premise of the heart and soul of how to take the .wav and go to MIDI from it.
The KT Drum Trigger plugin looks for a frequency range specific change in level and if it sees a level change over your specified trigger level, it triggers a MIDI note on and velocity event each time it goes over the user set trigger signal level. The plugin also allows for specifying midi channel number. The plugin has 3 available ranges in one instance of the plugin.
If the host software allows for parallel processing, you can instantiate multiple instances of this plugin in parallel, with each instance using different specified ranges. In front of the plugin, you can apply EQ and dynamics processing to 'juice' the individual instrument.
This capability is something that I fell in love with Tracktion's semi-modular host. In fact, many years ago, I used this technique to do a verbal 'beat box' and trigger drum machine samples with it.
But this is something that you can easily gin-up in Tracktion as it's sold today. With Tracktion in it's most recent state, you can re-route the midi stream that results and record it and voila, you have achieved the goal.
I have to believe that there's a more purpose-built software to do this, but it was very easy to do it in Tracktion and that's likely way less expensive than any purpose built software.
So you are talking Stereo Drums ? I think Ableton Live 9 "Convert Drums to midi track" was the quickest and closest to being right out of all the things I tried. Ableton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R91qSOgWh5Y
Although Drumagog is designed for use on separate drum tracks (snare drum on one track, bass drum on another, etc.), by using the trigger filter it is possible to use Drumagog to replace drums on a mixed stereo drum track. To do this make two exact copies of the mixed drum track and insert Drumagog on both copies. Next set the first Drumagog’s trigger filter to low pass, and the second Drumagog’s filter to hi-pass. With some careful adjustments, the first Drumagog should trigger only on the bass drum, while the second only on the snare drum.
Yep, Ableton it is. I haven't used it myself but I've seen demo vids where they do this easily. One thing that blew me away was a guy simply beatboxed (badly) into a mic and Abelton turned it into a full midi drum kit. And then the presenter switched it from acoustic to electronic drums and then he went into turning that into a killer percussion section. He also "sang" a bass line and it created a bass midi track too.
but interesting question I remember just seeing LAST WEEK something similar in a product I already have - I'm looking now [but being old and forgetful it could have been how to convert hip-hop to my recycle bin ]
Larry
EDIT: PS - Please report back if you DO find something specialized that works - but doesn't require us to buy yet ANOTHER DAW.
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 07/16/1511:25 AM.
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I am going to give this a try....I looked at the two videos about Melodyne. I will take a real track drum line and try to convert it to midi...have no idea how this will work out. If I can get it to work I will post something. My best guess not having tried this is that there will be lost of work to get what I want.
Thanks for the info.
Billy
PS....trying this but no joy yet...lol
Last edited by Planobilly; 07/18/1510:07 AM.
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If anyone has got some software to work, (to convert a drum Audi WAV to MIDI ) could they please try it on one of our drum files in the bb\drums folder and post the results as a MIDI file?
"I'm afraid that the current version of Addictive Trigger does not allow you to trigger hi-hats and cymbals - only bass drum, snare drum and toms.
It is possible to make a midi file from a single stereo drum track. Here's how you would need to do it:
1. Create one audio track for each drum (one for kick, one for snare, then one for each tom) 2. Copy the drum recording so that there is a copy on each of the audio tracks (make sure that the recordings line up perfectly!) 3. Put one instance of Addictive Trigger on each audio track 4. On the kick track, select "Kick" in the top left corner, right beside the Addictive Trigger logo. On the Snare track, select "Snare" and then do the same for the tom tracks. 5. On the snare track, load a snare sound. Then do the same for the tom tracks as well. It doesn't matter what sound you choose, this will just make it easier for you to hear if it triggers correctly. 6. Use the Audio Fingerprint technology on each instance to tell Addictive Trigger that "on this track, only listen for the bass drum", "on this track, only listen for the snare hits" etc. 7. When you have made sure that each track triggers for the correct sound, then you hit the play button in your host until it has played through the whole track 8. Now that all midi has been recorded, click the [Export MIDI] button in one of the Addictive Trigger instances 9. In that window, click the Merge Tracks button to collect midi notes from all instances of Addictive Trigger. Then you can drag the midi into your host.
Sorry for the wall of text. If you check the videos on our website I think you may find that it is not as complicated as it may seem when I type all the steps out :)"
I have spent sooo much time, weeks on end trying n buying software to do this, my eyes are red sore from staring n reading, dragging drum files into apps. I will keep trying but I think at the end of the day unless you are willing to sit down and manually correct the beats, it might be easier and quicker just getting a good Drummer with a good ear to come in (or better still send them to him/her to do at home in their own time) and listen to each wav and play n record it on a midi kit. Maybe only if you need to, after in Reaper you can automatically put markers on the transients of the wav then snap midi to markers to try and have the timing identical to the org wav ?
I think you said the original recordings just had a few mics, but I suppose they were recorded straight to a stereo track ? no hard drives out the back with with multitrack recordings you can trigger from ?
Any new Drums just record em multitrack n have some triggers on them to get the midi also.
Unfortunately, no. I can see the whole task having so many hit-and-miss challenges.
I think the problem really comes down to frequency separation, or a lack thereof. Yes, software could identify the kick from the snare, but trying to identify the ride cymbal from the splash cymbal, or the difference between a hit on the splash and a hit on the OHH has to be really challenging - with all those similar harmonics and frequencies.
I wish I knew, but I think this is destined to be a tough one. Trev
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Peter,# I have used Cubase for this. It was called hitpoints, then got a revamp. Basically what happens is the file is parsed, then hit points appear superimposed on the wav file pictured (and zoomable). Then you get to be able to drag the hit points around, tidy up as you wish. This is mapped to a tempo file. You get control over time signature too.
Peter,# I have used Cubase for this. It was called hitpoints, then got a revamp. Basically what happens is the file is parsed, then hit points appear superimposed on the wav file pictured (and zoomable). Then you get to be able to drag the hit points around, tidy up as you wish. This is mapped to a tempo file. You get control over time signature too.
Z
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
. .could they please try it on one of our drum files in the bb\drums folder and post the results as a MIDI file?
I purchased that some time ago and no go, they said they were going to improve it.
From AudioGaming Fri, 17 Jul 2015 : The current version available is "lite". We are working on new features and improvements for possible "pro" version but the release date is not yet scheduled.
Please send us examples that you find GrooveExtractor not working well so we can investigate.
best regards,
Thank you for the examples. We will study them and try to improve GrooveExtractor.
Hi, I’m bumping this topic, to see if anyone has found any drum transcription software that works well.
So far the best one I’ve found is Ableton. Though forum threads say it apparently exports MIDI only at 96ppq, and reportedly ignores silence at the start when exporting MIDI (so will always call the first midi note time 0)
I have not used it myself but +++ Drumagog 5 by Wavemachine +++ gets good reviews and the developer has been improving the product since 1999. There are three editions. The base program lacks midi capability. The Pro edition with midi in\out is $99. The program uses iLok copy protection.
Have you tried +++ Groove Extractor 2 by Le Sound +++? Like Drumagog, Groove Extractor 2 receives audio and outputs midi. It is available on both Windows and Apple platforms. The latest version was released June, 2018. It looks like this program might be able to handle batch files.
Most of the audio to midi programs I've seen are general purpose for all audio. Many of the drum programs support replacement instead of transcription. The programs replace existing audio with sampled audio.
Did you try that Superior Drummer 3, you just drag the stereo track in then copy it so you have a track for each drum/cymbal. I think I posted that in the 2018 Win BB beta forum ? I would of thought that worked better than Ableton ?
Also if you have the stems wouldn't you be better using them to get the midi as there are separate hits ?
Imported this file. Piece of cake. Everything was triggered perfectly in a few minutes time. Had to select which tom sound to map to which tom in SD3 and tweak the hi-hat a bit. Added and removed a few cymbal hits while playing through the song as well. If I knew the song and didn’t have to listen to the entire thing it would have been even quicker.
//Andreas
Andreas Walfridsson - Toontrack Interaction Designer
Over time I have looked at several options. I have found none that make it simple. Probably the easiest I’ve used is Melodyne.
In Melodyne open the drum wav. Melodyne should sort it as percussion. Select a part (say first beat in a bar) then tell Melodyne to select the same beat in all bars. Then move those to a new line (note). Then repeat the process for other beats. Where you have several hits at the same time (eg hi hat and kick) you can copy the kick to the hi hat line.
Once the notes are sorted export as midi. Then import the midi into your daw and put the notes onto the drum part required. Sounds like a lot of work but it’s not too bad.
If anyone has got some software to work, (to convert a drum Audi WAV to MIDI could they please try it on one of our drum files in the bb\drums folder and post the results as a MIDI file?
So?...
Please stop posting blurbs and opinions from websites, somebody get some software, create an RD track, run it through and see what happens. I'd love to hear it too.
02-15-2019 Hi, I’m bumping this topic, to see if anyone has found any drum transcription software that works well.
So far the best one I’ve found is Ableton. Though forum threads say it apparently exports MIDI only at 96ppq, and reportedly ignores silence at the start when exporting MIDI (so will always call the first midi note time 0)
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Peter posted this 4 years ago:....Please stop posting blurbs and opinions from websites, I will get some software, create a RD track, run it through and see what happens. I'll let you know the results.
Ha, I knew that was coming. The thing is nobody wants to spend several hundred bucks for something that we all suspect won't work very well.
I was thinking that if anybody had every possible piece of music software known to man it would be you but since you haven't posted an answer to Peter's request I take it you haven't found anything either?
Peter employs people to sit there and try things out, develop things. I'm not a drummer with a good ear to pick up exactly what's being hit it the tight spots, Peter and his crew are quite capable of doing this. They have been pointed to some great tools, I'm sure they will sort it all out, and as said before if they already have the stems it would be easier than using the stereo drums we all have at the moment.
That's a good point but the fact he asked for our help tells me they've come up with squat. It's obvious they don't have any multitracks of these drums which validates my point a year or so ago about this. People kept saying if PG would just release the multittracks we can get great midi versions of the RD's. There are no multracks, those RD's were recorded with 2 or 3 mic's as stereo files, that's it. They talked about this years ago when the RD's were first introduced. What people forget or don't know is there are already some pretty good drum parts in the midi styles. I forget now but there's a symbol of some sort that identifies the midi drums that were recorded by a live drummer on a midi drum kit and it's a decent percentage.
That's my understanding, yes. The RD's were introduced with Power Tracks a year or two before Real Band was created and at the time this question came up and that was the answer. Stereo created by 2 or 3 mics. The RD's were not recorded with close mic's on each part of the kit like that pic. You can tell that by listening to them. Of course that could have changed by now but I've seen no mention of it.
To me this gives the drums a classic live sound at the cost of not having individual control. This is the way drums were recorded 40-50 years ago when everything was going to a Studer two track. Depending on who you talk to they were only using 2 mics as well, one overhead and one somewhere low usually the kick I guess. And it's the same thing I do when I do live remote recording.
I have an Akai DPS12 with 8 live inputs. I try to use three mics, one in the kick since most kick drums have the hole in front, one below the snare/hi hat and an overhead. That leaves 5 for the instruments and one vocal. Putting 3 mics on the drums gives me some control over mixing. I can cut or boost the kick and the same with the cymbals using EQ alone which is good enough for a live band recording and it's the same thing I do with the RD's. In addition to running the recording I'm also playing keys, I don't have the time or inclination to be hauling 15 mics and doing all that set up.
Hi Bob, Have you had any luck in remembering what symbol it is for real midi drum parts. Sorry for bombing in on this but would find it very useful.
Brian
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He means midi drum parts created by a live drummer on a midi drum kit. Mac talked about this years ago, many of the midi styles have "real" midi drums like that and he said there was something that told us that but I have no idea what it is now. For me I can usually tell by listening to the part. The drums have that live feel to them rather than sequenced.
Pipeline, yes I saw that but if that's the case then why did Peter make the request in this thread? And why wasn't the multitrack stems confirmed way back in the Power Tracks days? That question did come up and the only thing that was said is the RD's are stereo files no mention of multitracks. Maybe he's going two directions at once? Maybe the VST can't handle it? Who knows, it's all speculation at this point.
He means midi drum parts created by a live drummer on a midi drum kit. Mac talked about this years ago, many of the midi styles have "real" midi drums like that and he said there was something that told us that but I have no idea what it is now. For me I can usually tell by listening to the part. The drums have that live feel to them rather than sequenced. ... Bob
Oh - OK. Thanks. That's what is called Live Drums, I think.
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...There are no multracks, those RD's were recorded with 2 or 3 mic's as stereo files, that's it... Bob
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
.... yes I saw that but if that's the case then why did Peter make the request in this thread? ... Who knows ... Bob
What do you want me to say ? what do you want me to do ? what do you want others to do and and say ? Can I work with what I do know or do I have to work with what you don't know ?
Can we just go back to how it was now, is that ok ? can users try and help by suggesting things or do you have to moderate that ?
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Yep, Ableton it is. I haven't used it myself but I've seen demo vids where they do this easily.... Bob
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Please stop posting blurbs and opinions from websites, somebody get some software, create an RD track, run it through and see what happens. I'd love to hear it too. Bob
Yeah, you're right but that Abelton comment was years ago.
I just wonder it Peter has access to all those original multitrack stems why does he need help from us about audio to midi conversion software? If you have an isolated track of a snare, floor tom, whatever even if there is some bleed through pretty much any midi software that can handle separate beats should be able to convert that to midi. Another mystery of the universe...
It's actually easy to find out how many, and which, RealDrums have drum notation.
From the 2019 online Band-in-a-Box user manual:
Quote:
Some RealDrums have drum notation. Currently, 21 RealDrums can show drum notation, and you can find them with the [#] filter button in the RealDrums Picker.
I have the 2019 Ultra PAK with all the bonus PAKs to date. Open the DrumPicker, Click on the "#" symbol at the top of the screen. Select, "RealDrums With Real Charts ...". Select, "Drum Notation with some variations". I'm getting a return of 38.
That's more than the 21 they began the year with but shows they have a long road to travel.
* RealDrums Style Name ^ Genre Genre (more) /4 Ev 8 Lo Hi x NA Artist #*
RockEven16 Rock Ev 16 045 120 x Craig Scott Ntn001
CountryEven8 Country Rock;Pop Ev 8 075 250 Shawn Soucy Ntn002
PopWaltz Pop 3 Sw 8 060 180 Craig Scott Ntn002
Nashville2Beat^ ^ Country Sw 16 080 140 x Brian Fullen Ntn006
NashvilleEven16^ ^ Country Pop;Rock Ev 16 060 120 x Brian Fullen Ntn006
NashvilleEven8^ ^ Country Pop;Rock Ev 8 080 180 Brian Fullen Ntn006
NashvilleOutlaw^ ^ Country Pop;Rock Ev 8 150 200 Brian Fullen Ntn006
Nashville128^ ^ Country Pop;Rock Sw 8 060 120 x Brian Fullen Ntn007
Nashville68^ ^ Country Pop;Rock 3 Ev 8 080 140 x Brian Fullen Ntn007
NashvilleShuffle^ ^ Country Pop;Rock Ev 8 090 160 x Brian Fullen Ntn007
PopWaltzEven8^ ^ Pop 3 Ev 8 080 150 x Craig Scott Ntn008
JazzTerryClarke^ ^ Jazz Sw 8 050 300 Terry Clarke Ntn018
BluesBBEven8^ ^ Blues Rock Ev 8 075 160 x PG Artist 4 Ntn021
NashCrossovrSw16^ ^ Country Rock;Pop Sw 16 065 130 x Brian Fullen Ntn021
NashClassicWaltzSw^ ^ Country Pop 3 Sw 8 055 180 Brian Fullen Ntn025
NashTrainEv16^ ^ Country Ev 16 070 170 Brian Fullen Ntn025
NashvilleBrushesBalladPushEv16 Country Pop Ev 16 055 115 x Brian Fullen Ntn025
NashBrushBalDbKEv16^ ^ Country Rock;Pop Ev 16 055 125 x Brian Fullen Ntn026
NashvilleBrushesClassicShuffle Country Sw 8 075 180 Brian Fullen Ntn026
NashPopBallad^ ^ Country Pop Ev 8 090 150 x Wayne Killius Ntn029
PopRockWaltzEv,SideStickHat,Ride Pop Rock 3 Ev 8 100 220 Wayne Killius Ntn107
PopRockWaltzEv,SnareHat,Ride Pop Rock 3 Ev 8 100 220 Wayne Killius Ntn107
PopRockWaltzModernEv,Hat,Ride Pop Rock 3 Ev 8 100 220 Wayne Killius Ntn107
PopRockWaltzMarch Pop Rock 3 Ev 8 150 220 Wayne Killius Ntn126
BluesRockShuffle^ ^ Blues Rock Sw 8 110 165 Shannon Forrest Ntn140
PopPromiseEv16^ ^ Pop Rock;Praise & Worship Ev 16 075 120 x Shannon Forrest Ntn151
BluesRockEv^ ^ Blues Rock Ev 8 110 160 x Shannon Forrest Ntn156
BluesRockSlowEv^ ^ Blues Rock Ev 8 055 105 x Shannon Forrest Ntn157
PopModernGrooveSync16^ ^ Pop Country Ev 16 075 120 x Shannon Forrest Ntn166
PopRockBasic^ ^ Pop Rock Ev 8 070 130 x Kenneth Blevins Ntn226
FunkHalfNotePulse Funk RockPop Ev 8 080 140 x Michael White Ntn240
FunkHalfNotePulseTambo Funk RockPop Ev 8 080 140 x Michael White Ntn240
FunkRock^ ^ Funk Rock Ev 8 085 130 x Pat Steward Ntn266
FunkSanFran Funk RockPop Ev 8 085 130 x Michael White Ntn266
AmericanaRoots16th^ ^ Roots Folk Ev 16 050 100 x Bryan Owings Ntn279
BluesPopBusySnare^ ^ Blues Rock Ev 8 080 130 x Bryan Owings Ntn280
BossaBrazilAlex^ ^ Jazz Latin Ev 8 075 190 Alex Acuna Ntn302
BossaBrazilBrushAlex^ ^ Jazz Latin Ev 8 075 190 Alex Acuna Ntn302
BossaBrazilBrushPercAlex^ ^ Jazz Latin Ev 8 075 190 Alex Acuna Ntn302
BossaBrazilPercAlex^ ^ Jazz Latin Ev 8 075 190 Alex Acuna Ntn302
FunkBusySnare^ ^ Funk Ev 8 080 110 x Robert "Sput" Searight Ntn800
FusionFastAlex^ ^ Fusion Jazz Ev 16 140 165 Alex Acuna Ntn800
PopCountry16ths^ ^ Country Pop;Rock Ev 16 075 120 x Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA262
ModernPopBallad16ths^ ^ Country Pop Ev 16 060 100 x Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA277
PopRock12-8^ ^ Rock Pop Ev 8 055 110 x Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA277
PopRock16ths^ ^ Rock Ev 16 050 110 x Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA277
PopRock8ths^ ^ Rock Pop Ev 8 070 165 Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA277
PopRockShuffle Pop Rock Sw 8 100 160 x Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA277
PopRockSw16^ ^ Pop Rock Sw 16 165 120 x Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA277
PopShuffleSlow^ ^ Pop Rock Sw 8 075 110 x Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA277
PopSyncSw16^ ^ Pop Rock Sw 16 060 120 x Shannon Forrest NtnVideoNA277
May not be a software solution but as you can see from this link, Sidechaining uses one track to trigger a reaction on another track. One specific technique is for an audio signal such as a drum kick to trigger a 60hz midi signal to play simultaneously and add punch to the audio kick drum. Some software sidechains also can stipulate specific frequencies to trigger from an audio track.
Just wondering if this could be applied to specific frequencies of a PGMusic RealDrum kit to trigger MIDI notes that match the hits of each individual piece of the kit. It will surely match some such as the kick, snare and hi-hat. That only leaves Toms, cymbals and cowbell.
May not be a software solution but as you can see from this link, Sidechaining uses one track to trigger a reaction on another track. One specific technique is for an audio signal such as a drum kick to trigger a 60hz midi signal to play simultaneously and add punch to the audio kick drum. Some software sidechains also can stipulate specific frequencies to trigger from an audio track.
Just wondering if this could be applied to specific frequencies of a PGMusic RealDrum kit to trigger MIDI notes that match the hits of each individual piece of the kit. It will surely match some such as the kick, snare and hi-hat. That only leaves Toms, cymbals and cowbell.
I think in order to get the drum parts separated there needs to be a clear separation of notes. For a piano, guitar or indeed most instruments there is clear separation of notes. However, this is not true of drums.
Even products such as Melodyne cannot separate various drums and therefore the percussion algorithm is used. Then one has to go in and put various parts in their correct places.
Even various drum replacement programs struggle to get it right. Often where two hits a simultaneous (say, kick and hi hat) a hit gets lost.
Looking at Ableton they seem to have it down fairly well so why others don’t is a good question.
My thoughts Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 06/24/1912:11 PM.
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