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#364320 - 09/07/16 09:13 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Duplicating Horns
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Bernier Offline
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Ok all - I have tried to do this before with no luck.
I have PT Pro V 2015(2). What I want to do is record one series of chords in midi with one horn section, then duplicate it exactly on a new track with a different horn section.
I am using a Juno. DI synth. According to the tone list map, my first horn section is MSB 087 LSB 067 PC 98. My second horn section is MSB 087 LSB 058 PC 23.

How can I do this?
Thanks to all for help!
Bernier

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#364323 - 09/07/16 10:27 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
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jford Offline
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Bernier -

If you have the first track recorded, the you should be able to duplicate that first track to another track. Make sure both tracks are assigned to your Juno for output (whether it's a MIDI out port or a USB out port).

On the first track, you should be able to right click and assign MSB, LSB, and patch number. Do the same for the second track with the other horn section.

Another thing to do is to select each track and then hit the F2 key and look at the MIDI data to make sure there is not a hard coded patch change present in the MIDI track. This will over-ride whatever you have set at the track level. For example, when I record from my keyboard, the keyboard sends the MIDI patch to the computer and it gets recorded into the track's MIDI data stream. If I later try to set it at the track level, it appears to make no change, because it's already written something different to the MIDI data. Check this for both tracks.

Hopefully this works for you.


Attachments
PTPA Patch Select.jpg


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#364341 - 09/07/16 12:29 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
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Larry Kehl Online   content
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What John said (again)

Bernier - I don't have a Juno DI (but I have a ton of other Roland gear) and I just checked to make sure it WAS multi-timbral (looked at specs/manual: 16 parts/128 voices, so typical synth)

Now, and this is not to insult you, it's a "just in case" and for other readers, but you know those horn parts need to be assigned to different Juno DI parts (MIDI channels)?

Unless you are trying to set up some patch layering or keyboard split assignments? In that case you will need to write some SYSEX commands to do that from within PowerTracks

Good Luck
Larry


Edited by Larry Kehl (09/07/16 12:30 PM)
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#364342 - 09/07/16 12:30 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: jford]
Registered: 12/01/06
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Bernier Offline
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Loc: Wisconsin
Thanks for the help. I've been using PT for years and I remembered why I always give up on it for months at a time! I spend 99% of my time messing with settings and 1% making music!
Here is what is happening. I followed your instructions and set MSB to 87, LSB to 67, and PC to 98. What I should get is trombone section. What I do get is "vibraphone".
I went to the patch select dialogue and chose Roland GS.
In the book with the Juno it lists MSB 87 LSB 67 and PC 98 as trombone section.
What now? Thanks as always. Bernier

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#364344 - 09/07/16 12:36 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Larry Kehl]
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Bernier Offline
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Thanks Larry. I am never insulted when I am learning. I do not know how to assign the horn parts to channels. Can you tell me?
Thanks!

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#364347 - 09/07/16 01:03 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
Registered: 12/20/00
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jford Offline
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You can set the channel of a track to be anything from 1-16 (just right-click and set it). However, if there is already data on the track, you may have to remap the channel already in use.

Somewhere on the menu is an option to rechannel the MIDI. I would select the track, then hit F2 and look at the MIDI Event List to see what channel the notes are on. The select the "Rechannel" command. Select that channel the notes are on and enter it as both "Old high channel" and "Old low channel". Then enter the new channel as both "New high channel" and "New low channel", hit okay, and the data on that track should be remapped.

Also (and Larry can help me here), isn't Roland GS rather than GM, in which case the numbers may be offset by one. Another option is to try to find a patch map for the Juno. PGMusic has a bunch, but not all. You can also use a Sonar patch map and convert it for use with PowerTracks. Instructions to do so should be in the help file and/or user manual (search on patch map).
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#364360 - 09/07/16 02:39 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: jford]
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Larry Kehl Online   content
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Roland is zero based (and in this case is GM2) but forget that for now

1. GO to here

https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/juno-di/updates_drivers/

2. At bottom of page Download: JUNO-Di SONAR Instrument Definition List (Patches)

(good place to find manuals, and other utilities as well)

3. Open PowerTracks and follow instructions here

http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_ptwpatchmap.htm#convert


NOW you have a PATCH MAP that you can use to select BY NAME the patches you want.

The conversion utility will ask you if you want to append this new set to the existing patches.ini: SAY Yes.

Then close PT and re-open so it can rebuild the "PATCHES.BIN" file.

Better yet, close Power tracks, then DELETE (or rename if you're worried) the "PATCHES.BIN" file then re-start PT and it WILL rebuild the PATCHES.BIN and your Juno DI will be available as a patch map

Larry
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#364362 - 09/07/16 02:55 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
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Bernier Offline
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Wow - you guys are awesome! Can't wait to try it tomorrow! Bernier

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#364774 - 09/10/16 09:14 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Larry Kehl]
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Bernier Offline
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The instructions say to go to the Action menu in PT and choose "Convert patch list from Band-in-a-Box® or Cakewalk". There is no option in my Action menu that matches the tutorial. ( I have PT ver 2015). The file I downloaded from Roland for the patches has a setup in it, but when I press that it tells me a file is missing. I tried this several times.
I do have a new file called JunoDI_patch+GM2.ins on my desktop.
Help!


Edited by Bernier (09/10/16 09:22 AM)

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#364810 - 09/10/16 02:42 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
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Larry Kehl Online   content
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First, RE: the Powertracks Menu/tutorial, my mistake, seems PT 2015 & 2016 have changed, and that menu "action" item got moved and buried one more level down.

Go to Edit menu

"EDIT -> MIDI -> Convert patch list from Band-in-a-Box® or Cakewalk"

Second, re: the Roland site - there is no "setup" in the file you SHOULD have downloaded?

There was nothing to setup or install vis–à–vis the : the link towards bottom of page that says

"JUNO-Di SONAR Instrument definition List (Patches)"

on the Roland site, - just download and UNZIP!

The unzip gives you a folder that contains the resultant " .ins" file that you do want, it is the one you will convert to an ".ini" file from within PowerTracks.
You say you have it, the .ins file, on your desktop, good.
Remember during conversion it will ask if you want to append at end of existing patches.ini file - SAY YES.

Otherwise YOU will need to remember where the now named " JunoDI_patch+GM2.ini" was stored, then rename it to "patches.ini", then MOVE it to the PowerTracks folder (PowerTracks only looks to the PowerTracks folder for the .patches.ini file - it will not work if the .ini is sitting on your desktop)!

Finally please note, that the file "JunoDI_patch+GM2.ins" is the complete Juno DI instrument list: WITHOUT the drums, that's a separate download, the last one on that Roland page called " JUNO-Di SONAR Instrument definition List (Rhythm Kit)."

You would have to Download, convert, and append it to the "patches.ini" if you want each rhythm kit and its note mappings.

Larry


Attachments
convert.jpg

roland.jpg


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#364814 - 09/10/16 03:19 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Larry Kehl]
Registered: 12/01/06
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Loc: Wisconsin
Bernier Offline
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Registered: 12/01/06
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Loc: Wisconsin
Thanks so much Larry! Everything went fine. Then I launched pt, and it asked to setup midi drivers. I chose Juno for both input and output, hit ok, and received a blue screen error " bad_pool_header". Tried this a couple of times and keep getting same blue screen error.
Boy, this is getting frustrating.....
Thanks as always - Bernie

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#364816 - 09/10/16 03:34 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
Registered: 12/01/06
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Bernier Offline
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Right back where I started. I got PT to work after loading the midi drivers. Changed first track to midi, chose MSB 087 LSB 067 PC 098. According to my manual, this is supposed to be trombone section. What I get is FX2 - some kind of synth sound. At my wits end.
Help appreciated!

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#364822 - 09/10/16 04:18 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
Registered: 05/30/00
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rharv Offline
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Try Options-Patch Names .. then select the list you want to see, hopefully Juno shows up ..

MSB LSB should not be needed once installed correctly

See how I can select a GM sound on the left and see all the variations on the right?


Attachments
patches.jpg


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#364838 - 09/10/16 06:05 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: rharv]
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Larry Kehl Online   content
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what Rharv said

The whole point of having a patch file is so that you DO NOT need to type in MSB/LSB + Patch number.

You need to do some reading in the PT documentation on how to use patches, instruments, assign them to tracks, etc. (just like you would with any ANY DAW)


Larry
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#364883 - 09/11/16 05:13 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
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Bernier Offline
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Something I just tthought of - in the midi select box, there is a checkbox for re-route to CoyoteWT. should this be unchecked? When it is checked, is it using this patch map rather than Juno? Thanks! Bernie

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#364897 - 09/11/16 07:14 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
Registered: 12/01/06
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Bernier Offline
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Here is exactly what I am doing.
1. go to the first track in PT, R click on track and change the track type to midi.
2. R click, program, brass, 57: trumpet
E. Patch select dialogue: patch list Roland GS , 57: trumpet. There is a window on the right that lists "variations". The only entry there is 0:trumpet

In my Roland manual, it lists Like this:
Brass
No. 791 Br077 Trumpet. BRS 121 0 57
( where MSB is 121 and LSB is 0)

This is what I am trying to get. This is the trumpet "section" Any ideas?
Thanks as always. Bernier

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#364905 - 09/11/16 07:31 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19066
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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If you insist on using MSB LSB then do it in the Classic Tracks window ..

If you do not see your Juno-DI listed in your patch map you didn't do it right.
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#364920 - 09/11/16 08:19 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: rharv]
Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 495
Loc: Wisconsin
Bernier Offline
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Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 495
Loc: Wisconsin
I'd rather use the non MSB LSB if I could figure out how to get it to work...
I've got Roland GS and Roland VSC - GS mode. Shouldn't one of these work?


Edited by Bernier (09/11/16 08:21 AM)

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#364922 - 09/11/16 08:42 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Bernier]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19066
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19066
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
No, GM and GS only handle a certain subset of the patches on your synth.

Sounds like you have not created the Patch Map correctly.
Can you post your patches.ini file somewhere?
Do you remember seeing PT say it was rebuilding the patches.bin file? This is a necessary step.
With PT not running:
Rename Patches.bin to ParchesOld.bin (or whatever) then restart PT.
You should see PT say it is rebuilding Patches.Bin.
Once done see if your Juno-DI shows an option in the Patches Dialogue along with the other GM/GS options.

See in my image above how the Patch Dialogue lists my Juno-G? That is how yours should look with the Juno-DI.

And yes, if you check the box to Re-Route all MIDI to DXi synth, that's what happens! All MIDI goes there instead of out to the Juno-DI ...


Edited by rharv (09/11/16 08:46 AM)
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#364926 - 09/11/16 09:49 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: Duplicating Horns [Re: Larry Kehl]
Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 495
Loc: Wisconsin
Bernier Offline
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Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 495
Loc: Wisconsin
Hi Larry -I did as you suggested and deleted patches.bin from the PT folder.
I do have a patches.ini file in thE PT folder. I restarted PT and then looked in the PT folder, and there's is now no patches.bin file there, yet I am getting no error messages.
Please advise - thanks
Bernier

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