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#370127 - 10/15/16 10:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] cut time
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 121
Loc: on the edge of the sandbar
mrgeeze Offline

Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 121
Loc: on the edge of the sandbar
working out a song that i just can't get right.
the song is dolly's "jolene".

i like the _bcjg110.sty at about 110bpm

The groove is nice but I can't get the chords to match them.
i notice the chart for it i have is in cut time.

doubling the speed makes the backing tracks ridiculous.
cutting the chord changes to half their value won't work.

am i missing something here?

seems like i ran into a similar problem on another song.
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#370153 - 10/15/16 03:33 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: cut time [Re: mrgeeze]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14627
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14627
Loc: Australia

Cut common time is meant to mean a time signature of 2/2 if it's used properly - that is, it's a two-beat time. (Many people notate music incorrectly using the cut time time signature and use it as a way of meaning fast 4/4.)

I've had a look at Jolene on the internet and found a version that gives the time signature as 2/2. The tempo is 108 half-note beats per minute. This means that your chosen style at 110 bpm will work well. With this internet version of the music, the chords are...

  • Dm (bar 1)
  • F (bar 2)
  • C (bar 3)
  • Dm (bar 4), etc.

Since each bar in the song only contains two beats, to enter the above chords using _bcjg110.sty there are two possible approaches that I can think of.

Approach 1
(Using _bcjg110.sty as a 4/4 style)

It is necessary to keep in mind that to achieve 2 beats to a bar feel, one bar of the BIAB chord sheet needs to play two bars of the music. The tempo of the chord sheet remains at 110 bpm.

With the above in mind, try entering this...

  • Dm (bar 1, beat 1)
  • F (bar 1, beat 3)
  • C (bar 2, beat 1)
  • Dm (bar 2, beat 3), etc.

In other words think of the 4/4 bar as really two bars in cut time; Beats 1 & 2 are one bar, and beats 3 & 4 are the second bar

Approach 2 (my preferred approach)
(Using _bcjg110.sty as a two-beat style)

After setting the the 4/4 style, right click on bar 1, enter into "Bar Settings" and set the "# Beats this bar" to 2. It's set to '3' on the image below.

When this is done, the chords can be entered exactly as on the sheet music since each bar now only contains two beats. The tempo remains set to 110 bpm. When generated, the style will accommodate this time signature.

That is, after changing the number of beats per bar, enter the chords....

  • Dm (bar 1)
  • F (bar 2)
  • C (bar 3)
  • Dm (bar 4), etc.

With this second approach and Realtracks and Realdrums, its success will depend on the individual RT/RD files. I anticipate that some RTs and RDs will work better than others. Trial and error will tell. If it turns out that a particular RT/RD does not generate well at 2 beats to the bar, then Approach 1 is the way to go.

Hope this helps,
Noel Adams

#370225 - 10/16/16 03:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: cut time [Re: mrgeeze]
Registered: 01/30/11
Posts: 173
Loc: Hatfield, UK
ovation99 Offline

Registered: 01/30/11
Posts: 173
Loc: Hatfield, UK
What a great tip! Up till now I thought I didnt have any 2/2 styles.
Thanks Noel and thanks to mrgeeze for asking the question.

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#370231 - 10/16/16 05:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: cut time [Re: mrgeeze]
Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4585
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Notes Norton Offline

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4585
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Noel is right.

The way I think about BiaB is neither measures nor time signatures. That doesn't work.

Each numbered area in the matrix is a cell, not a measure. It either contains 4 or 3 beats but can be forced to 1 or 2 by using the F5 key.

So if you want 2/4 or 2/2 time, each BiaB cell can equal 2 measures.

Use a triplet based sw8 style and one BiaB cell can equal 12/8 time or two measures of 6/8 time.

If you have a quick 6/8 that's taken in 6, sometimes a waltz style or using F5 to make each cell a half measure will work better.

Turn cell #1 to 3 beats (using F5) and cell #2 to 2 beats (F5) and the combination of cells 1&2 become one 5/4 measure.

You could make a 5/4 style where an entire measure fits in one BiaB cell, but all but the first chord would be in the wrong place, as BiaB puts no more than 4 evenly spaced chords in each cell.

7/4? A cell of 4 and another of 3 and you have two cells equaling one 7/4 measure of music.

But that also depends on the style. I wrote some EXPANDED styles that make each cell a half measure and REDUCED styles that do the opposite. These are kludges to bypass limitations of the BiaB app.

The EXPANDED styles allow you to put up to 8 chords in a measure of music, or a chord both on the beat and the up-beat before it.

The REDUCED style allow the opposite, for 2 bars of music in 1 BiaB cell.

So you see, the way to go is forget about BiaB cells equaling a bar of music, but instead, how many beats (or sub beats) it can contain. This can extremely increase the versatility of BiaB and your understanding of how BiaB works.

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#370255 - 10/16/16 08:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: cut time [Re: mrgeeze]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18387
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18387
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
For more on cut time regarding RealDrums, you might be interested in this thread in the Wishlist:
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

#370294 - 10/16/16 04:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: cut time [Re: mrgeeze]
Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 813
Graham Martin Offline

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 813
I had a similar problem over the weekend when I was trying to do the Bee Gees' "I Started A Joke" as a smooth jazz tune.

The Music was shown as common time with the instruction, "Moderately slow, in 2". Each bar had the value of four quarter notes (crotchets).

For me it worked very well entering the music and chords exactly as they were shown on the music and then using the menu item 'Edit', 'Song Form', 'Reduce (durations of chords by 1/2)'.

I had already worked out the tempo from listening to the Bee Gee's recording and counting it as 72 beats per minute in what I thought was 4/4 time. I used the "Smooth Jazz Poppy Rhythm" style and it is perfect.

Obviously I can't play it up in the stratosphere where Robin is with his vocal but I changed the key to 'C' and it makes a great trombone feature. grin
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