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#377919 11/28/16 05:12 PM
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I'm opening a bar here in Osaka, Japan and need a decent audio system for background music, party music, gaming, movie watching and possibly DJing but haven't a clue when it comes to audio equipment, so I'd appreciate some help on this issue.

I've got a room that's roughly 5x5 meters and I'm considering getting a wall/ceiling mounted powered PA speaker for each corner of the room (4 total) plus a sub if needed, then hook it all up to my PC directly, making it the source and the mixer (might expand later but this is the plan for now).

First of all, I'm not sure of whether or not this is a good setup. Second of all I've no clue how to hook it up. I figured maybe I could daisy chain the speakers and plug the first/last one to the computer with an XLR to Jack or something but apparently most speakers only have one XLR port so that's no good. How would you go about this?

Also I want absolutely no noticeable noise output.

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A commercial system is often wired in a daisy chain, using a 70-volt transformer.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-nC3zC984su0/learn/introduction-to-commercial-audio-systems.html

If you're going to buy something closer to a home or PA setup, then there are speakers that can daisy chain using XLR. My QSC powered monitors can.

For noise purposes, the most important thing is how you wire it up, keeping the wiring away from sources of interference and keeping the everything separate from anything that generates interference, either through the power or through the air (RFI). Run audio cables away from and perpendicular to power cables. Put the air conditioner, refrigerator, and espresso machine on a different circuit.

I like using powered monitors for the least noise. But I sort of have to wonder, what kind of a bar is that quiet?


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I'm getting increasingly confused the more I read.
I was just thinking "[*****] it, let's get a mixer to make things simpler" but every mixer I look at has a bunch of left and right sockets (no mono) and apparently setting the four speakers to mono would be the best option for the setup I have in mind in order to make it sound the same no matter where in the room you are. How do I do this?

Also It seems you need to split the signal from the source to have the speakers and the sub handle their appropriate frequencies. Again I've no clue how to go about it but perhaps some more reading will get me there.

Right now I'm looking at a BEHRINGER B112D which has two XLR sockets. If I were to daisy chain four of these together and connect one of them to the mixer and somehow get them to register as mono would that sound good.
Sorry, had to close my laptop for hours and lost my train of thought...

I've been to live shows where the noise from the speakers is heard clear as day in between performances.

Last edited by RoyBread; 11/29/16 02:00 AM.
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Would using this XLR to 3.5mm jack to connect daisy chained speakers to my computer make them function as normal speakers? Would save me a lot of trouble.

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A Y adapter will get you to mono. The subwoofer generally has its own low pass filter; you can feed it anything but it will only reproduce bass. Live sound at a show is a whole different animal; I thought you were just setting up a bar.


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"...I've got a room that's roughly 5x5 meters..."


Are you sure that's the space you have? That's pretty small. For something that small, you might want to look at a couple of K8's and a small Yamaha mixer. Small, expandable and uncluttered.


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K8


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG10XU



Regards,

Bob

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It's just for a bar. Might want some singing as well but that should be easy enough to set up.
Question though; Let's say I have a computer and four of these speakers (image below), how would you use the Y adapter? I figured maybe I could just do:
Computer jack-->Speaker 1 input
Speaker 1 output-->speaker 2 input
Speaker 2 output-->speaker 3 input
Speaker 3 output-->speaker 4 input

[img]https://iak.olx.ph/images_olxph/824167484_3_1000x700.jpg?bucket=01[/img]

And yeah it's small. It's Japan after all. My place is bigger than most actually.

Last edited by RoyBread; 11/29/16 03:46 AM.
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What I would do is get one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Peavey-3001370-USB-Audio-Interface/dp/B004A4PSEU


Run from the USB port on the PC (Not the headphone out) into the USB Box, then to each speaker. Can run mono or stereo. Will give you a solid, noise-free signal. (I know, I have one)


I would also reconsider the Behringer speakers. Much better options available.


Regards,

Bob

Last edited by 90 dB; 11/29/16 04:19 AM.
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Was just looking at one of those things, though a more complicated one. If it works as I think it does, It might be exactly what I need. What speakers would you recommend then? The Behringer ones had some pretty good reviews as well as some really handy features such as built in mixer and port for wireless mic.

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Speaker choice has to do with:

a) How much can you spend? grin
b) What features do you need?


Behringer is generally not considered pro gear, for a variety of reasons. JBL, Yamaha, QSC, Mackie, all make boxes that will suit you, and sound tons better than the B-ger. Is there anywhere in Osaka where you can actually listen to some different speakers? Guitar Center?


Regards,

Bob

Last edited by 90 dB; 11/29/16 04:42 AM.
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1. I'm thinking an M-TRACK 2X2 C-Series + this will get things working?

2. I know of one guitar shop but variety is always kinda meh when you go to shops here.
I want to be able to use a microphone but the M-Track might take care of that anyways?
Technically I've got money to spend but the more I can tuck away for future salaries the better.
Don't wanna cheap out and get crappy audio permeating my place either though. I guess my willingness to spend more depends on diminishing returns. How much of a difference is it going to make in my case? I don't plan on blasting away at full volume (I'd get kicked out) but do appreciate clean wide range playback.

Last edited by RoyBread; 11/29/16 05:05 AM.
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The M-Track is a recording interface. A small Yamaha mixer will suit you better.

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I don't understand mixers. Where do I even plug in the source?

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Sorry, don't get it. Where's a customer who wants to output the sound from their handheld device gonna insert their USB? Where does my computer (music source, not recording equipment) come into the picture?
Every guide I see is about getting stuff into the computer. I want stuff out of the computer.

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I'm liking what I'm reading about this Peavey USB Audio Interface linked earlier. If only I could find some category in which to place them so I could then find a similar product in Japan. Searching only yields recording devices smirk

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Found it in Japan for four times the american price...
Might be worth it to import if there's no other product like it.

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Go to a pro audio store and talk to someone there.

Since you're buying a complete 4 speaker system I would think you could get them to show you different setups, explain how it all works and come out and set it up for you.

You mentioned noise. That implies you want good quality therefore, the Bari's are probably not good enough. Check out the names posted above. And no, they ain't cheap even over here.

Oh, here's an idea for you. Post this on the Japanese Biab forum, there's probably someone there (like the moderator) who can tell you how to get the best deal.

Bob


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Thanks. Actually I've reconsidered everything and come to the conclusion that a high quality amp/receiver in combination with four smaller (6.5"-8") non PA speakers might serve me better considering the space, power consumption and ease of setting up. Not sure if a sub is necessary. Think I'll just get the four speakers first then consider the sub if they sound lackluster on their own.

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Any thoughts about the Polk Audio RC80i?

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Actually why not get KEF Q300's

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5x5 meters is about a 16' x 16' room. My daughter's bedrooms are bigger than that. That's a really small room for a bar. If you have 10 people in there it's packed. Are you sure about that size?

Next issue..... with all the questions you are asking, it sounds like you're not very "up to speed" on audio gear, specing it out, or connecting it properly. So as some have suggested, go to a professional audio company. Get one or two to come to the location of the bar and give you a quote and get educated on what they are selling and recommending.

If the room truly is that small, and I know everything in Japan is smaller, including bars, the system you will need is not going to be a very big or powerful one. I've played in bands in some pretty small places, but even our practice room was bigger than that room you are describing.

An attempt at helping:
In most cases, when you daisy chain speakers on a 70v line, it's not really a hi-fi system. Background music and voice announcements like you hear in retail stores fit this category. For a sound system in a club or bar, you need it louder so you will use an amp (or amps) and connect one or two speakers (at most) to a channel on the amp, and match that to the amp's output ratings. Add amps and speakers for more coverage and more volume. Most amps will support 2 channels and depending on the amp ratings, and the speaker impedance, you could possibly connect 4 speakers like you want, to one amp with 2 channels. Impedance and wattage rating for the speaker and the amp must be matched.

Another option is to have a line level signal that feeds a number of self powered speakers. With this option, all you need is the mono output at line level fed to the powered speakers. All mixers have a way to give you a mono output. There's generally a mono out on the back of the mixer somewhere. Software based mixers can do that internally. Also, you may actually want to use a stereo out if the room is as small as you say it is.

Again, my recommendation is to go have a professional talk with you about what you're planning to do. Get them to the site and discuss the options. Take notes, and ask questions. And yes, in a small space, a nice home style stereo system with the power to push 4 speakers might be the perfect solution...and cheaper too. Adding a sub if you need it is not a big deal.


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