Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#378670 11/30/16 08:45 PM
Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 266
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 266
I don't understand the difference or I think I have an understanding of mixing, which I think of as different tracks.

Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,812
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,812
Here's a video from Graham (TheRecordingRevolution.com) about it. I've listened to a few of his videos and I've found that he explains things pretty well. (I haven't yet heard this one.)



Regards,
Noel





MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2025
Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,327
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,327
MASTERING VS. MIXING

You will find about 10,000 posts and you tubes on this with as many definitions.

Mixing and mastering are two completely different professional fields, and when people are making records for labels, they use separate "mixers" and "masterers." They are specialty fields in the pro world. Home recorders have to be both.

A mix basically refers to how the levels of the instrument are set on the board (in a DAW on a real board) and when and how those levels come up and down with faders, and how they are panned. Mixing also involves some basic application of effects such as eq and reverb.

A "Master" focuses on the exact sound of the final production and gets into areas like "spectrum analysis" and "dynamic range" and volume, and many, many subtle tweaks designed to make the mix thump or sparkle.

There are many, many ways to attack this--and it gets confusing.

Some people enter the mastering phase before the bed and vocals or instrument sections bed are rendered, just after levels and fading cues have been set (the mix.) *

* There is a lot of semantic cross-talk on this in the field. In the video by Graham posted above (a great video) by the way, he talks about the importance of getting each track to sound great before you move on to the master, and he describes that as part of the mixing process. Whereas, in his description, the master is more of a process of making sure tonal color and volume are the same on all finished musical tracks (i.e., songs) on a CD or collection. However, other people describe "mixing" as setting levels on faders, panning and basic eq. The level of detail Graham is describing as "mixing" is sometimes done by people who would say they are mastering. This is what makes it confusing.

At any rate, the point is this: if you want to add more mid-range or warmth to JUST the acoustic guitar, and it is already in the mix you hand to a mastering engineer, there is nothing you can do. The cream is already in the sauce so to speak. Anything you do will affect the entire bed.

So some people like to have their hand in mastering each track, and also mastering the final. But "mastering" involves the precise SOUND whereas mixing involves the LEVELS--short version of it all.

I love Ozone 5 as a mastering tool (one of many) but I am growing somewhat disenchanted with using tools like Ozone 6 as a one stop shop for final masters. They just seem to make things too watery and brittle for my ears.

Dynamic range is the key to great music, and you can't beat the old TT DR meter for keeping you honest on that.

You want the acoustic to sound like an acoustic, and the bass to sound like a bass, and you want to make sure things are panned, but not panned too much. If you get a great EQ on individual tracks, the mix will sound warm and you will need very little mastering effects after the fact though you may choose to use some to add some extra sparkle or kick or "ooomppfff."

But, if you you don't get a great EQ and sound and mix on individual tracks before you start to use mastering software, no setting in the world will be able to help you. Hope that makes sense.

Just get a good dynamic range meter and make sure you are in the 9-12 range (or higher for classical) and you'll be good.

Also leave some headroom, about 1 db. Don't max it out.

smile

Here is a picture of my famous buddy Yoram Vazan (friend to countless hip hop pioneers) at his board. He is known as one of the best "masterers" in the world now. He helped me with some of my early stuff at the now legendary Firehouse Studios in Brooklyn.


Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
Yoram Vazan.jpg (129.25 KB, 85 downloads)
Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,416
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,416
Marty...

The term "mastering" has gotten abused severely in the past 20 years (with the advent of home recording). The video that Noel posted (by Graham) explains it perfectly. Mastering is a term that should apply to a collection of songs - like for a CD release. It is the Mastering engineer's job to make them sound like a cohesive unit. The only reason to apply the term "mastering" to a single song is to make it "fit" into whatever sonic field it might play in - as he states - get it to the level of the CDs or radio songs it will compete against...so it doesn't stand out as "out of place" when listened to in context.

Everything else is mixing.

Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 728
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 728
Mastering is the final trip for most singles and albums before heading to the duplicator. But like choosing a producer, or a musician, or a studio, one should listen to previous work by a mastering company before turning over your work. I have paid a lot for mastering services and been very dissatisfied with the result, because the service seemed to have no "feel" for the genre of music they'd been given. I don't think everyone offering mastering services is suitable for every genre of music. For this reason we've started doing our own mastering and have been happy with the results. There are books available on the process and you don't need tons of equipment to get the job done. I know engineers who master album projects in Sonar Producer, for example, by importing all the tracks onto one stereo track in a new project and then apply mastering tweaks with the software and plugins included with the DAW. And what I've heard was impressive.

Like everything else with music production, get educated about the process and LISTEN to the final product compared to other work in the genre. Have your friends listen, your enemies, your ex, and your dog. It is an extremely subjective art in the end. My experience in doing our own mastering is that less is definitely more. Fiddling with the final product too much is the kiss of death. My favorite program for mastering these days has been around a while - CD Architect from Sony.

Just sayin' grin
Bob

Last edited by Bob Buford; 12/01/16 05:53 AM.
Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,327
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,327
Originally Posted By: Bob Buford
Mastering is the final trip for most singles and albums before heading to the duplicator. My experience in doing our own mastering is that less is definitely more. Fiddling with the final product too much is the kiss of death.
Bob


Amen.

That is what I was trying to say Bob. You just said it in less words.

smile

Beginners Forum
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,298
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,298
Everyone has commented and spot on. So I will simply say ditto.

Well, almost....


I combine the 2 into one. Yes, mastering is something that is applied to a group of songs and not so much one song alone, so I often refer to the process as "polishing the song" rather than erroneously calling it mastering.

I start my recording process with the end in mind. I have a good idea what I want the song to sound like and work from the very beginning to get there. So essentially, when I have finished my "mixing" stage, I've also mostly completed the "polishing" stage as well. It might need a few tweeks but often, it's done to my satisfaction.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,327
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,327
Another good "short but sweet" answer Floyd!!

smile

Beginners Forum
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,327
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,327

This is the part where most people mess up and another great short, and to the point explanation, Herb! smile Well put, sir.

The mastering really starts when you turn on your amp, decide how you want to mic it, and what guitar you pick, as one example. Graham backs this up.

THEN, as Herb said, you do your level best to record your very best take and signal with the sound being as good as it can get before it even hits the board.

THEN, you use whatever effects you have WITH CAUTION to make each track sound as perfect as you can, and as lifelike. Remember, professional producer Bob said less is more--just because you went crazy on Black Friday and bought 100 VSTs doesn't mean you are supposed to use them all.

If you follow the instructions given on this thread by all posters, very little "mastering" will need to be done in the end as Herb said.

As an FYI, some of the very best mixes I have heard have been done by people on this forum in Real Band using very minimal effects.

That is because they let the music speak for itself, and they didn't throw in a bunch of effects that turn the music into soup.

Less is more, less is more, less is more.

smile

Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,083
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,083
Also technically - nothing to do with the sound - part of the mastering process also includes adding the meta data for the track list and ISRC codes (unique identifiers for each recorded song) which Soundscan uses for sales tracking and SoundExchange uses for streaming royality payments.

Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,586
L
Expert
Offline
Expert
L
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,586
This might help:

It's also a general guide on Mastering.

https://www.izotope.com/en/support/support-resources/guides.html


Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 266
Apprentice
OP Offline
Apprentice
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 266
thank you all very much.

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Moderated by  Andrew - PG Music, PeterGannon 

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins

Join the conversation on our forum.

Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac Videos

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.

From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.

Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Mac Videos — we’ll be adding more videos as they’re released!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!

Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!

Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.

Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.

Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano

Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!

Bonjour à tous,

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music

Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:

BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation

Voilà, enjoy!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!

Die deutsche Version Band-in-a-Box® 2025 für Windows ist ab sofort verfügbar!

Alle die bereits die englische Version von Band-in-a-Box und RealBand 2024 installiert haben, finden hier die Installationsdateien für das Sprachenupdate:

https://nn.pgmusic.com/pgfiles/languagesupport/deutsch2025.exe
https://nn.pgmusic.com/pgfiles/languagesupport/deutsch2025RB.exe

Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!

Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.

Stay up to date—get the latest update now!

Forum Statistics
Forums58
Topics84,206
Posts776,336
Members39,595
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
Newest Members
gestes, TSIRY10, Albertcolin, Snow, Siggi D
39,594 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 147
zedd 113
WaoBand 97
nonchai 82
rsdean 78
DC Ron 76
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5