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#391512 - 01/21/17 12:01 PM [RealBand] Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures)
Registered: 12/20/11
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cooltouch Offline
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OK, I've got a song I'm working on, which is still a MIDI file . . . well, actually I've saved it as an RB file, but still it's MIDI. Anyway, it doesn't end exactly at the end of a measure. But I want the song to continue for a couple of more measures because I've added some stereo delay to the mix and I want the delay to ring out and diminish.

Well, I've found the command for inserting measures (Edit> Insert blank bars into song...), but this has to be done at an even measure point, and if I try to do this, it pushes the bits of leftover music out the number of measures I insert. The only work-around I've found, and it's a sloppy one, is to do a copy and paste to move the split apart bits back to where they were supposed to be. There's a bit of a problem, though. I'm still left with the split apart bits at the end of the song. If I try a cut and paste, RB kills the measures I inserted and if I do a copy and paste and then later go and cut off the leftover bits, RB still kills off the extra measures I've inserted. Even if I go into the tracks and delete each note, when I delete that last note, RB kills off the measures I inserted.

You know, in other software I've used, trying to accomplish this same thing is about 30 seconds worth of mouse clicks. Why does RB have to be so obtuse? Is there even a way in RB to do what I'm trying to do? What I'd really like to find is a command that basically sez "end the song here." (irrespective of whether or not there's any music left in any of the measures) But I haven't found one yet.

If there is no solution working with MIDI, I'm sure I'll be able to trim things once I've converted to audio, so all is not lost.
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#391548 - 01/21/17 03:45 PM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: cooltouch]
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rharv Offline
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Can't you just hit 'record' and add a couple measures of nothing?

I know with Audio tracks that's all it takes; let the recording go a little longer.
Even just recording silence on the end of a track makes the SEQ file run until the end.

Did you record this MIDI originally, or was it from some other source?
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#391552 - 01/21/17 04:02 PM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: cooltouch]
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Noel96 Offline
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Also,

If the file is midi, open Piano Roll mode and drag the right edge of the final midi note(s) for a couple of extra bars. This is the same as holding the note or notes on for two extra bars.
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#391566 - 01/21/17 05:12 PM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 05/30/00
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rharv Offline
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FWIW
In my experience, this is *sometimes* caused because the effects have a buffer that runs beyond the end of the song (time wise). This has happened here in other DAWs also.

To try and explain; if your FX take more time to actually 'happen' than the song is long, it will be abruptly stopped and be interrupted and cut off. The program stops before the sound should.

I've seen this issue also result in the buffer emptying itself the next time you hit 'play' (and causing a thwack/click when you click play and the song starts).

Give the song enough time to let the FX finish emptying their buffer.
IOW, make the song longer. Usually just recording empty space at the end of any track will accomplish this.
In my experience, recording a couple seconds of audio (on any given track at the end of the file) always solves this.
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#391791 - 01/22/17 04:47 PM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: rharv]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 225
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 225
Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: rharv
Can't you just hit 'record' and add a couple measures of nothing?

I know with Audio tracks that's all it takes; let the recording go a little longer.
Even just recording silence on the end of a track makes the SEQ file run until the end.

Did you record this MIDI originally, or was it from some other source?


Well, you don't really hit "record" with a MIDI file -- or at least not the way I usually create them. I don't usually "record" my MIDI files. I write them. I'm old school. I actually compose music using musical notation. I prefer software that lets me write using what's essentially a notation-based sequencer.
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#391792 - 01/22/17 04:50 PM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 12/20/11
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Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
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Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Also,

If the file is midi, open Piano Roll mode and drag the right edge of the final midi note(s) for a couple of extra bars. This is the same as holding the note or notes on for two extra bars.


I don't want to drag notes out. I would rather add rests. I don't know how to do that with a piano roll, though. I never use the piano roll. Fortunately, RB has a notation-based edit function. This just occurred to me. I can add rests and maybe that will work.tc

See, all I really want to do is run the song out to a give measure -- not extend by any number of measures.

The tune actually ends on the first 16th note of beat two of the final measuure (as in 1 tic tic tic 2) and then the delay that I've dialed in repeats this five-note figure and lets it fade out. It actually ends up sounding pretty cool, and the easiest way to produce it is to just extend the piece for another measure and about 3/4 (11/16, actually).


Edited by cooltouch (01/22/17 05:09 PM)
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#391794 - 01/22/17 04:58 PM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: rharv]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 225
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 225
Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: rharv
FWIW
In my experience, this is *sometimes* caused because the effects have a buffer that runs beyond the end of the song (time wise). This has happened here in other DAWs also.

To try and explain; if your FX take more time to actually 'happen' than the song is long, it will be abruptly stopped and be interrupted and cut off. The program stops before the sound should.

I've seen this issue also result in the buffer emptying itself the next time you hit 'play' (and causing a thwack/click when you click play and the song starts).

Give the song enough time to let the FX finish emptying their buffer.
IOW, make the song longer. Usually just recording empty space at the end of any track will accomplish this.
In my experience, recording a couple seconds of audio (on any given track at the end of the file) always solves this.


You've succinctly described my situation, except I'm still working in MIDI and not audio. Even with the MIDI "song" I've written, if I can get the tracks to run a bit longer, I can have the effects natually die out as the clock is running, which is all I'm after. I've been able to accomplish this in another DAW I own: Studio One 3, a decent DAW, my biggest criticism being that it doesn't support musical notation. And unfortunately PreSonus hasn't seemlessly integrated Notion with Studio One 3 yet (PreSonus owns both Studio One and Notion, which is a good notation-based sequencer). So I was able to trasfer the MIDI file over to Studio One and work with it in terms of voices/instrumentation and effects, but when it comes to try and modify the musical elements, it's very difficult for me because I don't really know how to interface with it just using a computer keyboard and mouse.

Which is why I decided to give RB a shot. It doesn't have all the nice voices built in the way Studio One does -- or I dunno, maybe it does. Seems like every time I try to use Super MIDI or whatever it's called, the system locks up and pukes. I've had no luck so far in getting anything more than a few basic Coyote sounds, then finally got another soft synth to work. So maybe there's hope for RB yet.
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#391895 - 01/23/17 09:02 AM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 12/20/00
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Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Online   content
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Have you tried inserting some (probably any) MIDI command at the point you want the song to end. Try inserting a patch change (even if it's just changing it to the same patch, or a pedal off, or whatever you want past the point of the last note and see if that helps out.

Just hit the F2 key on a MIDI track to bring up the event list. Go to the end of the list and you can create new events directly from the list and specify where you want it to be.

I can't test it right now, but I think you only need to do this on one track. Just a thought.


Edited by jford (01/23/17 09:03 AM)
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#391980 - 01/23/17 04:38 PM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 05/30/00
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rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
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I agree, any data recorded (or entered later in the song) should make it run longer.
I work with audio more than MIDI and my default track type in RB is audio. As a result I can just click a blank track and hit record for 2 measures and the song is now longer (everything from FX to synths now has time to ring out and empty the buffer) ..

If you want to use a MIDI track instead, hit Record in RB and record a couple bars of nothing, or enter a MIDI Event (as mentioned by jford) later in the song.
If RB sees *something* happen later, it will continue to play until then. Otherwise it acts like it reached the end of the file and stops.
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#392014 - 01/23/17 08:48 PM [RealBand] Re: Possible to extend song to a given measure (and not just add measures) [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 225
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 225
Loc: Houston, Texas
Thanks guys, I should probably be able to get there adjusting the events list.
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