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Hi All

The title says it all I have looked at videos and used the help function
but I can't find out how to do this.

I have Ultra Plus Pak 2016

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Alan



Last edited by guitarman; 04/01/17 06:12 AM.
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Originally Posted By: guitarman
Hi All

The title says it all I have looked at videos and used the help function
but I can't find out how to do this.



Alan, are you suggesting you want to have a RT play your midi? Cause that ain't gonna happen. Or do you just want to add some RT's to play along with your midi track? That is very doable, actually a very recent thread gave a good discussion of this. http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=403760#Post403760


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Hi Dan
Thanks for the reply.
Maybe I got it wrong.
What I was trying to do was get the real musicians to play the tracks in the midi file but maybe I should just
convert the midi tracks to audio then load them into my DAW then assign better instruments to each track from there.

Hope that makes sense.

Alan

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Quote:
What I was trying to do was get the real musicians to play the tracks in the midi file but maybe I should just
convert the midi tracks to audio then load them into my DAW then assign better instruments to each track from there.


I think you may have it backwards.
Once tracks are audio, getting them to act like a MIDI track will be problematic.
If you can export MIDI from BiaB then you can assign different synths/sounds .. but once they are audio probably not.

Some Realtracks include the MIDI transcription, and if they do you can change the synth/sound, but once they become audio it becomes much harder.
(exception may be using Melodyne, but still much more difficult)


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If a RealTrack has MIDI notation, you will see an underscore in the track name (and it will show in the RealTracks picker window). However, the quality of that MIDI differs. If it's a piano track, it's probably accurate because it was recorded along with the original audio. However if it's a sax, for example, or an electric guitar, the MIDI is only an approximation. I know, because I did some of the early ones. The notes may be close, but the feel, velocity, note bends and scoops, attack etc. are all missing.


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Hi All
I think I have it sorted.
If I put the chords into BIAB myself I can assign real styles to it then it plays the real instruments.

What I should do is load my midi file and choose real styles then will it play the real musicians.

I know I can't get audio tracks to act like midi.

Is the above correct?
Thanks
Alan

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Originally Posted By: guitarman
Hi All
I think I have it sorted.
If I put the chords into BIAB myself I can assign real styles to it then it plays the real instruments.

Yes, you will hear RealTracks playing on your chords.
Originally Posted By: guitarman

What I should do is load my midi file and choose real styles then will it play the real musicians.

No, it won't use RealTracks to play your MIDI file. If you want to hear your MIDI file, put it on BIAB's Melody and/or Soloist tracks, and assign a MIDI sound source (a hardware or software synth). You can do the same thing in your DAW by assigning a MIDI track and selecting a MIDI synth.
Originally Posted By: guitarman
I know I can't get audio tracks to act like midi.

Correct, not in BIAB. However, there are a few other programs such as Melodyne that can do some functions.


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Thank Matt and Everyone

Looks like I was wasting my time then.
So back to my DAW and individual tracks.

Alan

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I hope it's clearer, but you're never wasting your time learning about possibilities. Many of us use a combination of BIAB and a DAW to make music.


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No problem Matt now I know it's not possible to do it that way I can look for another way to do it.

In Sonar probably just need to add a virtual instrument.

I'll be back when I've sorted it.

Alan

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Alan,

Realtracks and Realdrums are recorded audio files. If you have a look in your \bb\Realtracks folder, you'll see what I mean. These files are created by musicians and involve playing lots of chord progressions in a number of rhythmical patterns. The chords and patterns are then mapped by PG Music.

When one enters chords on the chord sheet and then generates the backing, BIAB locates the necessary chords in the Realtrack audio file and then seamlessly splices them together to create a backing.

This is why Realtracks don't play midi.

Regards,
Noel


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Thanks Noel
I am looking at an alternative way of doing it.

Alan

Last edited by guitarman; 04/01/17 10:22 PM.
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<<< Originally Posted By: guitarman

What I should do is load my midi file and choose real styles then will it play the real musicians.

No, it won't use RealTracks to play your MIDI file. If you want to hear your MIDI file, put it on BIAB's Melody and/or Soloist tracks, and assign a MIDI sound source (a hardware or software synth). You can do the same thing in your DAW by assigning a MIDI track and selecting a MIDI synth. >>>


A small addition to Matt's comment. If you load a MIDI file and select a Realstyle - Loading the MIDI file also interprets and imports the chords of the MIDI song so the Realstyles will play along with the MIDI song chords at the correct tempo and key signature. Joanne Cooper posted details about this in her blog sometime back.

Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 04/02/17 02:49 AM.

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Alan, variations of your question comes up here at least once a week. The reason Biab is so cool is it appeals to musicians who don't know about or understand midi, DAW's and plugins. It really is very easy to use compared to all that "other stuff".

Here's the deal, when you ask about having your midi track being played by "real musicians" that has been available for years. It's called a VSTi sampler or softsynth. The built in Coyote wavetable or a cheap $40 or $50 synth won't cut it if you want good quality sound comparable to the Real Tracks. You need and be familiar with things like Kontakt, SampleTank 3, Omnisphere, Garritan and the like. They all cost several hundred dollars if not thousands when you start adding sound libraries.

This is the reason the RT's were invented in the first place. Most Biab users do not know about this stuff, find midi way to complex and just want to type in their chords, hit Play, sound good and don't want to spend any extra money. The RT's do that very well but as you've discovered the tradeoff is no fine midi control over the individual notes.

Bob


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I've been trying to work this out for years ... adding a RealTracks style to a MIDI file and keeping the MIDI Tracks in order to create different arrangements. Finally figured it out.

Here's how.

1. Use the File> Open Special > Open MIDI File, which will give you the MIDI chords and MIDI tracks.

2. Pick a RealStyle that you think would work (you can audition several and keep changing them till you're happy). You will have now nuked all your original MIDI tracks, but kept the chords.

3. To reload the tracks go File> Import> Import Melody from MIDI File (the nomenclature is a little confusing as this means load all MIDI tracks to the Melody track, not the Melody track of the MIDI file.) You can also do this by dragging the MIDI file onto the program and choosing to import to current song.

4. In the dialog box that opens you can load each individual MIDI track to any unused track ... Utility Tracks are the obvious choice.

5. You now have a choice. At the bottom right of the dialog box you have the option to load the tracks with the GM patch for each track. If you deselect it, the GM patches won't be included. Why might you want to do this? So you can use patches from a non-GM synth to change the voices.

A better choice is to load with patches included, but then if you want to use a non-GM patch you'll have to change the patch. What this means if that if you go to your synth and start auditioning patches, the synth patch you might like will not persist and change back to the patch with the same # as the GM patch in the file. If you know the bank number of your synth patch, you just immediately change to the GM patch with the same number ... taking into account that some have convention 0-127 and some 1-128.

6. Edit the patch. First, be sure you are at the beginning of the file, since that is where the initial patch message is sent. Either click on the beginning bar of the chord sheet or use notation window which shows patch number in a little colored box. Right click on the MIDI track header and select 'Edit MIDI.' I'm not going to go through the whole routine here, but you want the 'List Editor' and then 'Program' where you can search and find program change, i.e., patch. You can delete the patch number and then insert yours.

7. Bonus! You can also use this method to insert patch changes at any bar you want. Great way to change accompaniment between verse, chorus, bridge, etc.

8. More bonus! Besides changing the patch for different sections you also have access to all MIDI file parameters. Volume is a particularly useful one to insert along with patch changes for different sections.

I hope this is helpful.

Last edited by DFT; 12/20/23 08:33 PM.

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Hello DFT,

What a great post. The post is well written and easy to understand.

May I suggest you create a new thread in the forum's +++ Tips & Tricks +++ so it will be seen by more forum members?


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Hi Jim,

Coming from you, this is this highest compliment I could get on this forum! Thank you.

Please tell me how to move it there? Do I have to resubmit or can a mod move it?

DF


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I would resubmit.

Glad a six year old thread helped.

A slight clarification to #1. The MIDI standard does not contain chord info, so when you load a MIDI file using File, Import Special, BIAB interprets the chords from that MIDI file. If you deal with complex jazz chords like I do, the interpretation may or may not be exactly right.


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Well there is no Edit-Import in the menu? There is a File-Import-Import chords from midi file... but this only brings the chords. What version ar you using?

What you appear to be describing is the "Import Midi File" which is a popup when you drag and drop a .mid file onto the chord or tracks sheet. Turth is it is a bit of a complicated mess trying to do what should be simple.


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Oops! Update. I now see what you mean ... that the chords per se are not in the MIDI file. One interesting thing I've noted is that when you import the chords alone from the regular Import the chord sheet layout is different then when you load the entire MIDI file from the Import Special Menu. The Import Special chord layout gives a better view of the song I think. Anyway, unless this is some glitch or user error, it looks much better to me. ... and as I first wrote ...

Thanks, Matt ...

I think if you look again at my #1 you will see that I did state "Import Special." You only use "Import" later to reload the MIDI tracks using the MIDI Melody option. Or have I misunderstood your comment?

As Jim suggested, I've reposted to user's tips and tricks with a link back to this original post.

Last edited by DFT; 12/20/23 08:09 PM.

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