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Agree I have had excellent advice, changed my thinking.
Doing plenty of reading and you tube video at the moment.
Regards,
Ian
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The best thing you could do at this stage is read. You can spend a ton of money on stuff you don't really need. BIAB/Realband is a self-contained production suite. You may find that all you really need is an interface and a decent mic. Save your money for plugins!  Indeed. Research and ask questions from the folks who have the gear you're thinking about buying. Nothing wrong with wanting something, but don't make the mistake of buying crap gear. Get the good stuff if you can afford it. In my case, I spent a couple thousand to get started. A new dedicated computer, the software for it, the monitors, a good condenser mic, and the interface. I sold my mixers when I figured out that I didn't need them and used the money to buy,..... as Bob suggested..... plugins. The only thing that really reveals that you're looking at a music studio is the Yamaha keyboard and the guitar amp on the stand. Do your research and make an informed buying decision. Buy good gear not the flashy "does 5 different things" gizmo stuff. ( it slices, it dices, it puree's and feeds your dog too)
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Whatever gear you decide on, don't skimp on a mic. A decent condenser (I use a Studio Projects T3 Tube myself) will record vocals, guitar amps, cymbals, lots of sources. And a brand-new SM58.....just because.  https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/best-vocal-mics/Regards, Bob
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Whatever gear you decide on, don't skimp on a mic. A decent condenser (I use a Studio Projects T3 Tube myself) will record vocals, guitar amps, cymbals, lots of sources. And a brand-new SM58.....just because. https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/best-vocal-mics/Regards, Bob Ditto. Do not buy or use a USB mic.... just don't. Get a good, "real" condenser mic.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Mics and preamps .. always fun to talk about.
Yes, if you look at old pictures of vocalists, you'll see lots of SM-58s. I've had a few vocalists insist they get to do a few tracks using this mic, if they agree to try the one I selected (often LDC).
However, I question how many of the other mics on the same stage are SM-57s.
You won't see a SM-58 on a snare or a guitar amp as often as an SM-57 at the same level of performance. They both have earned their place. If money isn't the issue (as mentioned originally) having both would be nice. I'd rather use a 57 on snare, guitar amp, and acoustic guitar than a 58. For myself, I like my vocals in a 57 more than a 58. But I know many vocalists really like their SM58.
As far as condenser mics, there are lots of good ones, and the preamp being used can also make a difference as to which is better in 'setup A' vs 'setup B'.
I think having a good preamp opens the opportunity to make every mic better, so it can be a wise investment in a different way. You may not 'need' it, but if it makes lots of other equipment better, it can be a valid wise investment.
I notice 90db mentioned a Studio Projects mic; for me I've never regretted getting a Studio Projects preamp.
All my mics sound better through the VTB1, including the 57 and the 58, than when using the same mic through one of the mixer preamps or such.
Just something to consider. I feel I took too long to learn this lesson myself, so thought I'd pass it along as related to the thread.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I think some of the strongest advice offered her is to get a good condenser mic and interface and save money for plugins.
You can find a MXL 990 condenser for $100 if you shop creatively. Add a Scarlet 212 first generation interface for $120 and with a mic cable, stand and pop filter and you are good to go. Unless you mix with cans exclusively you will likely soon want some decent monitors down the road.
And yeah, the plug-ins. Izotope's Ozone, Nectar, and Neutron are IMO game changers...as are many others.
Have fun on the journey...it's definitely more journey than destination.
Bud
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Some type of room treatment and some type of isolation to record vocals with a mic.
My recording/mixing room is semi live. I'd guess a little more on the drier, less reflective side. The wall behind my screen and monitors has a canvas art deco thing with foam stuffed invisibly into the back 1 1/4 depth of it. The wall behind me has a thick 6 x 8 art deco throw rug stapled to it. To my left and right are book shelves with books, guitar amps, and other junk.
For recording vocals I rigged up some U clamps, (the kind used to hold electrical conduit to a wall) upside down on top of one of the taller book shelves. I run 1 inch PVC pipe into the U clamps. The PVC pipe stick out about 3 ft across or right behind my computer desk chair. I drape a couple layers of sleeping bags over the pipes and record my vocals underneath. I'm 2 - 3 feet away from my DAW desk and wireless mouse. The whole thing sets up and tears down in a few minutes and stores between the book shelf and the wall or on top of the book shelf.
I don't need a mixer but I sure find it useful. I use a Yamaha MG12CSX (not USB) propped up vertical on a guitar stand on the desk to the left of my screen and left monitor. It's basically a monitoring, practice, listening, lessons mixer. I have 2 - 3 pairs of separate listening monitors, one which is a typical 2.1 computer speaker set with a subwoofer, connected to the various outputs plus a 4 channel headphone amp running off the the headphone jack. The monitoring output of my Audio Interface goes into 2 channels on the mixer. For recording I plug my mics and instruments into the Audio Interface which goes USB directly to the DAW, by-passing the mixer. The MG mixer set up like this allows me to add a little of the MG's built in reverb to headphones during vocal recording, easily raise and lower the volume of 2 - 3 monitoring speaker sets, flip mono/stereo on the fly, plug in my hardware synth and drum machine for stereo/mono playback and recording, practice mic and vocal techniques, play around in all sorts of ways like getting my electric or acoustic guitar tone dialed close before I go out and play somewhere.
Anyway, I don't "Need" it but I would replace it if it fried. Maybe with a 8 - 10 channel but not one of the USB units. At least not one of the current USB mixers on the market. I'd stick with a good Audio Interface for USB to DAW.
Last edited by Tobias; 05/11/17 10:50 AM.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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... I'd stick with a good Audio Interface for USB to DAW. Which one? I'm someone who believes the convertor and preamps make a lot of difference in a recording, thus curious on your opinion on the interface. That Yamaha mixer you have does have nice preamps in my experience, and I wouldn't mind using them to record with, but eventually the signal needs to go to digital. So which interface do you use? Why would you not get a USB version of that mixer. The preamps are nice, so maybe the convertors? I'm curious.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I don't really know which one I'd choose since I haven't shopped around recently. Currently using Berhinger UMC204HD interface. It probably wouldn't be my first choice if budget was not such a concern. However, I do get a really nice recorded sound and playback with it. Especially compared to when I was using a mixer connected directly to the computer sound card via 1/8 stereo input. The UMC204HD touts "Midas" preamps. I'm in no delusion that they are the exact preamps used on their highest quality consoles though. But, who knows? I do think the room and the mic have a whole lot to do with it also.
Yes, I agree, the Yamaha MG mixers have very decent mic preamps and a nice circuit all the way through to each output.
The reason I would not get a USB version of any current small foot print mixer is because I think/assume it would be limited compared to the current set up I have. The little USB boards I've seen don't have all/as many routing/assigning abilities as my dated MG124CX. (Not MG12CSX as stated earlier.)
And, I'm assuming there is some type of quality difference between a bare-bone 2 channel interface for $150 - $250 and a full function 2 channel USB mixer for around the same price. Did they cut corners somewhere? But, I admit, I am making assumptions and have not recently done any comparisons. I certainly wouldn't want to lose the functionality I'm currently getting in a multi-task situation.
I did use a borrowed Focusrite 2i2 interface (1st generation) for a little while and I like the Behringer UMC204HD more. I think it sounds better, takes a hotter/louder input signal before distorting, has 6 outputs plus a louder headphone playback, and a few more buttons to poke at on the front. But, I'm not claiming to be the interface expert here.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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The UMC204HD also has midi cable in/out connections for hardware synths and such. Which I do use. I have limited USB ports and did not want to add a USB hub. I don't see hardware midi connections on the USB mixers. So, the external Audio Interface along with a separate mixer seems to give me the options I use most often.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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I think the best mixer/audio interface currently is the Behringer x32. It has 40 inputs, 32 Midas mic preamps and 16 output channels. There are almost endless routing options and the on board effects and presets are pretty awesome. Additionally, Cymatic makes a dedicated X32 Multitrack Recorder/Player Expansion Card that records 32 channels simultaneously to a hard disk/flash drive eliminating the need for a computer to record.
They make several x32 versions and if you are satisfied to use the Core Model that is dependent on an Ipad or Android to control it, they are quite reasonable in cost. It is rack mountable but requires a stage box for inputs. The cost of the two make it more reasonable to purchase the Rack model unless you need to separate the unit from the inputs in a studio. The Producer and Compact versions are just scaled down models of the X32 but the internal software is the same for all the units with the exception the scaled down models have four effects engines instead of the eight effects engines of the full console.
The compact model is suitable in size for a home studio. The x32 series also has many of the Behringer Touch module features included on the board. Resolution is up to 48/16 bit. It also has a stereo flash drive recorder that is highly configurable with routing options.
There are other good contenders as well. Personally, I have a Soundcraft Signature MTK that records 22 channels and returns 24 as well as stereo recording capability. Other than the interface, it is an analog board. The USB returns operate as inserts and each channel USB return is activated by a button.
Presonus recently introduced a similar analog/audio interface mixer series.
The options are getting better with the mixer/interface hybrids.
Charlie
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 05/12/17 02:58 AM.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Thanks for the great responses and interesting options to consider. Sorry for the tardy reply, I am currently in the USA catching up with good friends, it been pretty hectic and the odd headache from one glass of wine too many and late nights....err early mornings.  Whilst I have been here I have managed to get a MXL-770 large condenser mic and SM-58. My mate here has a Behringer analog mixer and some descents monitors so we tried the 770 and 58 out just to check they are working before I head back to Oz and they sound great. I got the 770 for $73 on Amazon Prime delivered to my mates place. I am amazed at the performance for the price. Still yet to decide which USB interface to run with. Its become a bit like a Chinese menu with the options that are available. When I get back hopefully my BIAB Everything would have arrived and I can start getting my head around that. Definitely want to have a look at the included DAW that is incorporated in BIAB before deciding which USB interface to run with, if for whatever reason the BIAB isn't the preferred DAW I would possibly be influenced by the included "light" versions of Cubase AI or Pro Tools Light etc as to which USB interface to go with. Have not ruled out a small mixer just to manage all the other sources, monitors etc. the mixer as Tobias mention needs not to be USB. I sold on a dedicated USB interface for the DAW just not which one at the moment. Happy not to rush into what DAW, USB interface, monitor speakers, possible mixer etc until I get back and qualify exactly I am going to need to manage initially by way of I/O's and have a little think about what might happen in the future so as not to box myself in with the just now requirement. Time to get some butchers paper out and scratch out some drawings with devices, signal and work flows. Also have taken on board some of the comments relating to the room acoustics. I probably have two wall surfaces that are likely going to need some acoustic foam treatment. I have nice dense curtians that cover windows on the other two sides which will soften any reflections. Need to get back with the microphones and do some tests. Another 3 days here and then back to Oz. Probably won't eat or drink for a week when I get back to offset the insane hospitality I am experiencing here with my friends! Thanks again one and all for all the fantastic input, it really is appreciated. Again my apologies for the tardy reply to all you great responses. Regards, Ian
Last edited by Fleetz; 05/16/17 11:45 PM.
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Guys, I hope you won't mind me interjecting a question here rather than starting a new thread. When using the BIAB/RB DAW, Will I find any basic processing such as equalization or reverb, or will all of that need to come from plug-ins? Also, would you recommend DX or VST plug-ins? Thanks very much all!
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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It will come from Plugins. They include basic EQ,Reverb,Compression,Distortion etc plugins as DX during the install.
VST is supported and you'll have a wider variety of selection using VST for additional plugins (many free good ones).
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Thank you rharv! So, some decent DX plugins are included with BIAB/RB then? Nice. I know there are some really nice things out there such as Slate products, and as you say- some nice freebies like the (Anwida Soft DX Light) reverb I like for Audacity. Looking forward to moving up to the PG Music products!
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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Anwida is nice, as are many other free reverbs. My favorite is Ambience, because of all the control. Pre-reverb EQ, another EQ/Filter on the reverb output, room size and delay, cutoffs .. just lots of control over the sound. Plus it has a MIDI Learn feature so you can control via MIDI if desired. Anwida is much simpler. http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/#Ambience Get the Full version. He worked with PGMusic to optimize this plugin for their products and is nag-free. The other plugins on this page are pretty good also, with Nyquist being a fairly unique EQ. Again, a lot of control. The downloads here have been safe for many years, but as always use caution and pay attention during install. I've not had to re-install it for years.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Thanks again RHARV. This is a GREAT forum- polite people with accurate and timely answers, who can actually spell and write!;>) What a joy in today's online environment!
I recently made a legitimate and polite comment about Yamaha saxes on a Woodwind & Brasswind YouTube video, and got trolled by the rudest guy you could imagine- I'm a snowflake, get back to the woodshed, I should delete my comment because it showed what a crybaby I am, does he need to buy me tissues, I wouldn't be happy with a horn if Henri Selmer himself custom crafted it for me, etc. And the guy (his well-earned YT handle was 'Junk Mail'), saw nothing wrong with this unwarranted attack. And in the end, with him having no intention of letting me have the last word, I had to forego my 1st amendment right and delete the thread. I didn't want any bad mojo out there on WWBW's page.
I digress, but I am truly grateful for you guys and the kind attitudes here. :>)
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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Hi Warren,
The only thing that I can add to this conversation is do not DL a bunch of effects! DL the demos or the free ones, find one eq, compressor and reverb that you like and learn how to really use it. Master one eq, compressor and reverb and you will find it easier to mix and master. Although the controls of each can be somewhat universal the lay of said controls should match your workflow. Learning just three effects is a lot better and less time consuming than going through a ton of them, looking for the holy grail of eg, compressor or reverb without really knowing what you are doing. YMMV
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I like that approach MarioD- 'KISS' is always best. Otherwise, you can get lost in the gear and shut the creative process down! Better to nail something that works well. Any recommendations? Thanks Mario!
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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Unless it's changed, if you use Anwida Lite Reverb, you should switch to the VST version and you won't get the annoying popup anymore (as you do with the DX version). I discovered that by accident a number of years ago.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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