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Couldn't find anything on this in the forum. Was wondering if instruments should be panned to the center when playing a solo. Suppose I pan a fiddle 30% left and a mandolin 30% right with vocal in the middle. When the vocal drops out and the fiddle solos, should I pan the fiddle to the middle or leave it out to the left?
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The answer, IMHO, is it depends. I look at it like this, if the instrument, in your case the fiddle, has a mic or an amp I leave it where it is. But if it doesn't have a mic or amp then I move it towards where the singer was standing.
So if you are trying to emulate a true blue grass band then I would move the fiddle to a little left of the singer when it takes the lead: note this is from the audience's perspective. I do this as I have seen the singer stand directly in front of the mic but when the fiddle/instrument's lead comes in the singer will move slightly to the right and the fiddle/instrument will be slightly to the left of that mic. That is very slightly to the left. YMMV
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
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So what you're saying is this: To emulate a band recording in a studio (or being recorded on stage)and all instruments have their own mic, then leave them panned where they are during a solo. If recording with one mic, then move the solo instrument closer to the center. Does that sound right? Thanks for your reply Mario.
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I think Mario may be saying the same thing, but I view it more in terms of where the band would play acoustically. If the soloist is to the left and plays from there, then I would keep the sound there. If the soloist steps up to the middle to play (and then becomes the focus of attention), I would change the panning to the center for that solo, and then when the player stepped back to the left, pan that instrument back to the left.
That to me is what sounds most natural, and those closer to the stage (at least for acoustic instruments) would hear it that way whether mic'd or not.
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Thanks John. I think we are all saying the same thing and the decision to pan center or not depends on personal preference and what effect we want to create.
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A really cool technique (albeit dated) is to sweep a lead guitar from far left to far right. A little Flange modulation and you're in Haight-Ashbury!   Regards, Bob
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Only trouble with the bluegrass theory is that a single mic is not going to provide a stereo effect. In fact in most live situations you're not going to do anything too radical with the stereo field in case patrons on one side or the other are denied the privilege of hearing all instruments. In recordings there's a lot more choice and you'll hear centre or side solos, I think depending on how the mix is 'balanced' in that song section eg solo instruments often play against another instrument in which case they're probably on opposite sides.
Last edited by Matcham; 05/08/17 11:39 AM. Reason: typo
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Our bluegrass band used three mics. I had one all the time on my bass fiddle. Then there were two hot condenser mics out front for vocals, fills, rhythm and solos. This requires a lot of coordination as pickers move in and out for solos and fills. Flatt and Scruggs were and nowadays the Del McCoury Band are masters of the technique. The band is essentially mixing themselves and not at the mercy of a sound person. We would always tell the sound folks to get our two condenser mics hot and then leave them alone. Also working tightly together allowed us to be less dependent on lousy monitors. It's a common setup. Then there are bluegrass bands that spread across the stage with 8-12 mics. A totally different sound stage. When we recorded I tried to establish the tight version of the earlier described scenario based on where I envisioned the band members standing. Check out some early BG bands or McCoury for examples.
Bud
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Bah Humbug to the whole thing about "from the audience perspective".
Unless you're actually on the stage with the musicians, everything tends to be mixed mono or pretty dang close from the audience perspective..... unless you're at a Pink Floyd show.
I mix things this way.
For fullness and space, I mix two close to exactly the same acoustic guitar tracks panned 100% R&L. Sounds like mono with space. I was going to say sounds like mono with a stereo feel but I know that would blow some of your minds. huh? What?
Other things tend to be 30% or so one way or the other with something on the other side to balance it out so it doesn't sound off center.
And yes, using your example of fiddle at 30% one side and mandolin 30% the other side.... when one of them gets a solo, yes, bring it to the center, and turn it up a few dB.... nothing drastic, just enough so it cuts through, and drop the other thing out totally for that solo. Or, in addition to dropping the other out, bring in something totally different, like maybe a piano centered but lower so you don't have an empty space where something used to be. It's fun to experiment with that. The whole point is to have the solo instrument be in the spotlight for the solo, then, you want to pan it back after the solo.
That's also a great place to bring in something totally new. Or to have a dynamic change in the song. Just think out of the box and be creative.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/08/17 03:27 PM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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FWIW and since Bluegrass has been mentioned the biggest issue I note in some attempts at a BG mix is leaving the rhythm in while the respective instrument is soloing. Doesn't matter where you pan the solo in this case because it just doesn't happen with an actual BG band.
Another FWIW, I try and mix BG the way I would hear a typical live band if I was sitting dead center of them in a room with no mics.
Bass center
Lead vocal center
Harmony vocals L/R 12 out (Logic Pro value)
Guitar L/R close center 6-8 out
Rhythm banjo, fiddle, dobro, mandolin L/R 17-20 out
Solos L/R 10-12 out
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................
Another FWIW, I try and mix BG the way I would hear a typical live band if I was sitting dead center of them in a room with no mics.
................... That is exactly what I meant by "from the audience perspective". I always pan every song this way.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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a single mic is not going to provide a stereo effect. That's right, I should have thought of that.
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Thanks Herb. You have some interesting ideas.
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FWIW and since Bluegrass has been mentioned the biggest issue I note in some attempts at a BG mix is leaving the rhythm in while the respective instrument is soloing. Doesn't matter where you pan the solo in this case because it just doesn't happen with an actual BG band.
Another FWIW, I try and mix BG the way I would hear a typical live band if I was sitting dead center of them in a room with no mics.
Bass center
Lead vocal center
Harmony vocals L/R 12 out (Logic Pro value)
Guitar L/R close center 6-8 out
Rhythm banjo, fiddle, dobro, mandolin L/R 17-20 out
Solos L/R 10-12 out Bud, that is close to the way I try to mix my songs and I try to emulate an actual band by dropping the rhythm when soloing. A mandolin player can't play Rhythm and melody unless there are two of them which is unlikely. Twin fiddles maybe. My thought when I started this thread was that when the vocal drops out, that leaves a hole in the center. I thought it might be better to fill that hole during the break. This all leads me to another question on karaoke-style backing tracks which are used for live performance, but I should probably start a new thread for that.
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What so many essentially non-bluegrass folks do when trying to mix BG is to forget that the bass and a "chopping" rhythm instrument are the kick and the snare in effect. A good bluegrass band will have the either the mandolin, fiddle, dobro or banjo chopping or socking through the tune and the better they are the less likely it is to ever fall completely out. It provides a huge part of the drive.
FWIW and two cents, etc.
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