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#452867 - 01/22/18 10:02 AM [Beginners Forum] Physical Configurations for BIAB
Registered: 01/18/18
Posts: 8
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Bob McSwain Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/18/18
Posts: 8
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Hey y'all. I'm a returning user after 10+years. Hardware and software have drastically changed in those years.

My question: To run BIAB you need a pc/mac connected to a keyboard.(Yes I know keyboard is not needed ... but really...) Where does the music/sound come from? PC or keyboard or both?

(If there are multiple configs some diagrams would be helpful.)

Thanks.
Bob
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Bob McSwain

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#452868 - 01/22/18 10:18 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Hi Bob. Welcome / welcome back.

If by keyboard you mean a MIDI piano keyboard, you don't actually need that, but for some of us it helps to enter music. If by keyboard you mean a MIDI synth (example: Roland Fantom G) then it could be used to output the MID sound but is not required. BIAB outputs both audio and MIDI. The audio is not a problem; any computer's built-in sound will be OK (although you can inprove on this with outboard equipment). MIDI can use an external MIDI synth (hardware; I use one) or it can make sound via a software MIDI synth (sometimes I use that, too).

So I think we need to know what you know, what you want to do, and what you have already, so then we can proceed. We'll get there.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#452871 - 01/22/18 10:37 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14451
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14451
Loc: Australia
Bob,

Just to add on to Matt...

10+ years ago, BIAB was midi-based when it came to producing sounds. Those midi-based features are still present.

In 2008, the PG Music development team invented a way to manipulate audio that was recorded by studio musicians and to use that audio to create backing tracks. These days, it is this side of BIAB that seems to be the most popular amongst users. That is certainly the case with me.

If you want to hear how the audio sounds when it's used to create backings, have a listen to some of my songs on Soundcloud. The link is in my signature. Users Showcase (link) is also filled with song users have posted that were created with BIAB. The large majority of these posts involve Realtracks and Realdrums (the PG Music name for audio recordings of studio musicians).

In the days of midi, I used to have a piano-like keyboard permanently attached to my computer. A few years ago, I disconnected it because I now work almost exclusively with BIAB audio files rather than midi. My computer set up has a good set of speakers for sound reproduction and that's all I really need.

Regards,
Noel


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LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#452892 - 01/22/18 11:58 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 1633
Loc: Way too close to Palm Springs,...
Tobias Offline
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Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 1633
Loc: Way too close to Palm Springs,...
I mostly use software synthesizers now. Although once in a while I still prefer a few sounds from my old Edirol SD-20 or Roland Juno GI.
My main general midi, (GM & GM2) synth for output from BIAB is Cakewalk TTS-1. The TTS-1 came with a Music Creator 7 for around $19. It's very similar to the old VSC3 that came with older versions of BIAB but does not work on 64 bit machines, unless someone knows otherwise. In fact, I would use VSC3 if I could make it work.
Once I move my midi project/s to RealBand or Reaper I use SampleTank and the SI instruments that also came with Music Creator 7. I also have some free Virtual Instruments "VSTi" that I try out once in a while.
Most of my midi tracks are drums, strings and piano. The rest is either RealTracks from BIAB or RealBand or instruments I record.
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#452898 - 01/22/18 12:27 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Tobias]
Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 2196
Loc: Sacramento CA
flatfoot Offline
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Registered: 06/15/00
Posts: 2196
Loc: Sacramento CA
.
I have 2 BiaB setups, one for practice and one for production.

The 'practice' setup is an old laptop running a MIDI only version of BiaB. 2008, I think. It runs into a Yamaha keyboard and sounds great. I need it to be quick and easy to use for when I am working on my chops.

The 'Production' setup is the latest version of BiaB, with all the Real Tracks. I use it to make backup tracks for singers and standalone music productions. On this setup I might start a project in MIDI, using the Coyote soft synth, but before I finish all the tracks will be Real Tracks or played through another soft synth, like maybe sample Tank or Amplitube.
_________________________
Flatfoot sez: Call me when 'Talent-in-a-Box' is ready to ship! -- [8{>

Got some tunes on You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/flatfoot50
.
My BiaB lesson site:
http://jdwolfe0.wixsite.com/learnbiab

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#452930 - 01/22/18 01:24 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 34
Loc: uk
duncanwhyte Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 34
Loc: uk
I got biab because I want to be able to easily and quickly get a backing track together. At its simplest this works very well. I.e. put in the chords and select the backing you want and bingo you have it.

For that you only need a PC, which will play the biab track fine through its own soundcard.

To add vocal or your own guitar and such you need a digital interface like the focusrite. This also plays back through the PC.

A modern keyboard with USB connector, plugged into the pc, will get picked up by the interface and playback via the soundcard. Usually that will give you a default piano sound.

But anymore than that basic setup and you will need to learn all about the various settings and configurations to achieve what you want with different pieces of equipment.
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Using: Dell 3268 i3, 8 GB ram, windows 10. Biab version 2017 standard package, no extras.

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#452963 - 01/22/18 04:12 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Bob,
After 10 years you have a lot to catch up on!
It's a whole new world in digital audio.

Maybe the best way would be for you to tell us what you have to start with, and what you'd like to do as a good starting point.

Ex. I have a PC and want to play some keyboard parts into the BiaB song.
Or I want to record my singing and put reverb on it in my BiaB song
etc

Then we can ask the next questions (like which sounds do you want to hear when you play that keyboard) and advise what we think would be your next step to get where you want to be.
Just a thought
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Make your sound your own!

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#452984 - 01/22/18 06:22 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley

So I think we need to know what you know, what you want to do, and what you have already, so then we can proceed. We'll get there.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#453262 - 01/23/18 05:52 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 01/18/18
Posts: 8
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Bob McSwain Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/18/18
Posts: 8
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Thank y'all for your responses. I have been slow to respond trying to figure out how to respond - not content but format. I would love to have schematics of my configurations to which you can add stuff and features. But my e-drawing skills and tools failed me. So here we go .... verbally.

I am a trumpet player, singer (a cappella) and just beginning piano.

3 sites:
A) Laptop
Yamaha full feature keyboard
8 channel Mixing board (with tape recording)
Shure sm-58
Speakers in keyboard + external AR's attached to soundboard

B and C)
Laptop/PC
Full featured keyboard/piano

This is a start. BIAB has changed/grown so much I am at a loss as to how to fully utilize it.

Again, THANKS!

Bob McSwain


Edited by Bob McSwain (01/23/18 05:53 PM)
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Bob McSwain

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#453447 - 01/24/18 04:09 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Is the mixer digital or analog?

Are the keyboards GM compatible, where you could get all the MIDI sounds from them?
If so, a USB to MIDI adapter so the computer can talk to the keyboard/synth.
These are common and often about $20.

The next question would be how to hook the mixer to the computer so whatever goes in the mixer can be selectively routed to record.

Honestly, in the long run, I think an audio/MIDI interface would be worth the money (instead of the using the mixer as an input) so you can get a good sound from your vocals and the keyboards digitized on the way into the computer (via USB). Better convertors and many more useful reasons in the long run. You could easily move it from location to location and likely find joy.

Focusrite 2i4 would probably be fine for you. I always remind when mentioning Focusrite; the 2i2 does not come with the mixer software applet that allows extra routing options. This adds value to the models above it for many users. When I first learned this the hard way, I decided to warn others.
The 2i2 is the only model without the mixer feature, as far as I know.
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Make your sound your own!

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#453608 - 01/25/18 12:31 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: rharv]
Registered: 01/18/18
Posts: 8
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Bob McSwain Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/18/18
Posts: 8
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
My mixer is ANALOG.

Guessing the config for using the Focusrite 2i4:

Keyboard (via midi in)
Mic
speakers/headphones
||
||
Focusrite
||
|| USB
||
PC with BIAB
.... recording here(midi, MP3, WAV?)
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Bob McSwain

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#453721 - 01/25/18 05:50 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
If I understand your "||" meaning;

Yes,
Keyboard MIDI IN would go to Focusrite
The output of the mixer audio would also go into the Focusrite input (or just plug the mic into the Focusrite, which is likely better)

The Focusrite USB would then go to the computer.

Now think about the output side; the computer would likely also send the signal back to the Focusrite (including the added BiaB tracks) ..
This is part of what makes having the Focusrite mixer feature available so valuable. Being able to monitor the In/Out signals with some authority.

Essentially your existing analog mixer becomes a simple preamp/mixer for the Focusrite input.
Having another digital mixer (the Focusrite) further down the chain adds another layer, but also extends the flexibility of the system. The In/Out signals can then be balanced in the final result.
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Make your sound your own!

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#453730 - 01/25/18 08:44 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: rharv]
Registered: 01/18/18
Posts: 8
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Bob McSwain Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/18/18
Posts: 8
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
Notice I did not include the mixer. It's missions are to mix and balance the incoming signals and record the different tracks. Every one of those is covered somewhere else. So the mixer is gone/not in the "diagram."
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Bob McSwain

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#453894 - 01/26/18 03:29 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Physical Configurations for BIAB [Re: Bob McSwain]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19113
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Sorry.
In your post your first sentence was that the mixer is analog (instead of saying you didn't plan to use it). So I thought you still intended to use it for the mic etc. on the way in.
I misunderstood your post.

Yes, what you have in mind looks good.
I don't know what your budget or possible future needs are, so I'll mention that if you can swing an 18i8 or 18i20 it may be nice in the future. I've certainly learned to enjoy having plenty of ins.

Only tip, if going with Focusrite, is to make sure to get the GEN2 models. Those drivers seem to have much more reliable update and support.
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Make your sound your own!

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Fixed: Exporting MP3 files would fail if using the 64 bit version of Band-in-a-Box®, and Windows 7 or earlier.
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Fixed: Songs would not load or save VST data if larger than 1 megabyte, displaying flash message error "VST/FX data is too large to save".
Fixed: It was not possible to use the N key while entering note based lyrics in the Notation window.
Fixed: Recorded MIDI would be erased if also recording audio.
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