You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#455189 - 02/01/18 04:27 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] No PT 9 or PT12 recording VU level action.
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 3
Shackman01 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 3
Hello all.

Been a long time since I posted on this forum- roughly 7 years, I think. I recognise a few names though, rockstar_not, jford, Noel96, and some others. I've been gone a long while 'cause I got involved with motorcycling again, joined the forum for my model bike (a Harley Davidson XR1200) and couldn't make time to follow too many forums on the net. I had to rejoin as Shackman01, as I couldn't make my old username of Shackman work and couldn't remember the old password anyhow. But hey, I'm 61. I've reached that age when forgetfulness is a given.

Now I'm back because my recording system is giving me issues I can't solve myself. However, be advised everything is kinda old. The PC is a 13 year old AMD Athlon 2.2 Ghz running Windows XP SP3. I use a Delta 1010LT sound card. I have Powertracks 9 and Powertracks 12 on the PC. I record audio through some nice Rode mics (Australian, like me!) into a little Yamaha MG 10/2 mixer and thence to the Delta card. I play out from the card to a home Hi Fi set up, a Kenwood integrated amp and a pair of Tannoy Reveal passive monitors.

I know this setup sounds ancient and probably is compared to the Ferrari gear many of you guys have, but it (mostly) works and my approach is, if it's working, why fix it?

I have no problems with playing out sound from stuff I've recorded in PT 12. Everything works as it usually did. Specifically, the VU output meters within PT 12 show levels appropriately and the overall sound is sweet as ever. My problem is getting input levels. What happens is: I sing or play into the mics as normal in attempting to record. The Yamaha mixer's VU meters show plenty of level, the "Rec Out" RCA's conduct signal to the card and presumably the card tries to forward digital data in to PT 12. However, no level shows on the input VU meters, and nothing is recorded.

I have gone closely through all the audio settings within both PT 12 in the tracks window. All appears normal. I similarly went through the settings in the display controlling the Delta card. All appears normal there too, plenty of input level seen in the Delta's VU meters, and as I said, audio output is played normally.

Now- something is being conducted through the program (I think) because I can hear my check "peak" levels (tapping on the mic screen) coming out through the Tannoy speakers and thus being sent to the Kenwood amp. Not sure if this is bleed within the card, as it is quite loud, or what.

I tried re installing PT 9 via the CD ROM. It re installed, but no change in performance. I attempted to re install PT 12 twice but each time it led to a PC crash- yes, I got the blue screen of death with a message from the BIOS advising me I was treading on thin ice and best to seek qualified tech assist.

I vaugely remember something about "arming" a track when recording in Powertracks. Am I mis remembering or is this required and am I neglecting to do so? I have definitely ensured I have a green tick , not a red cross, at the track I'm trying to record on. Is track arming done in another window? I have a PT 8 manual but can't see anything to this effect.

Sorry to be harassing you guys about details on an old program and hope you can excercise your memory cells and powers of deductive logic to assist an old fart like me. You see, bikes or not I continue to work up songs and have 3 or 4 stored in my own memory cells which are threatening to bust loose and go feral if I don't get them recorded.

Hope you can assist and I'm happy to answer any and all questions you may have as we try to clarify the issue.

Cheers,

John

Top
#455331 - 02/02/18 03:49 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: No PT 9 or PT12 recording VU level action. [Re: Shackman01]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
If you have a 1010lt you have a lot of possible signal routing options when you include the mixer in that sound card.

Do you have input in the 1010's separate mixer?

If so it is likely the input driver selection in PT.
The image below shows how my 1010LT Mixer looks. Note there are separate Input and Output tabs that can complicate things.

Make sure that mixer has signal as expected.

If you do, go to Prefs-Options-Audio then click the Drivers button and make sure you have the desired inputs highlighted.
After selecting these (if using MME), use the Move Selected to Top button, so they become the used inputs.

The second image shows how the ASIO drivers appear in PT for me. The 1010 can use either - MME or ASIO, the MME screen just looks a tiny bit different than my image.
/Ignore the arrows in the image - I re-purposed an image I used in a previous post. The arrows mean nothing in your situation.

At least that's where I'd start.


Attachments
1010Mixer.jpg

1010Asio.jpg




Edited by rharv (02/02/18 04:17 PM)
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

Top
#464805 - 03/29/18 09:06 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: No PT 9 or PT12 recording VU level action. [Re: rharv]
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 3
Shackman01 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 3
Hi rharv et al,

It's been a long time again since I posted to this topic because of a number of difficulties I have overcome, some with your help.

Firstly, my input level challenge. After much putzing around under the table at the back of the PC amid the spaghetti junction of power and signal leads, I established I had bum interconnects between the little Yamaha MG 10/2 hardware mixer I use, and the Delta 1010LT card. They looked OK but were not. Two sets of the same make, in succession. These have been tossed and substituted with proper quality gear. I also purchased and downloaded PT17.

However, now with PT17 in use, I continued to have problems with the PC, like emerging latency between tracks, plus occaisional blue screens. As stated the old PC really was old so I gave up and went up to the local computer shop. $1.2K Australian dollars later, say $900 USD, I have ended up with a new iCore 3 desktop machine with 2 X 4.2 GHZ processors and Windows 10. The new MSI motherboard had a slot for PCI cards but the shop did not guarantee that the Delta card would work as it did in XP. I accepted that and started thinking about an outboard recording module, like a Focusrite or similar. They put my existing HDD's back in as requested.

I had a huge stroke of good computer luck for a change when I found at the M-Audio web site that a worker there had posted a link to drivers for the Delta 1010LT card to work in Windows 7. To my suprise and great joy these work also in Windows 10 so my prized Delta card is still working, playing my existing .SEQ files made in PT9 and PT12, although now in PT17 of course. So far, so good. Here is my remaining problem: everything seems to be in mono. Bear with me as I try to explain this because I'm wordy but not highly tech.

The tracks I recorded in PT9 and PT12 play fine, but I can't pan any more. That is, I can move the panning "knob", but the recorded instrument or voice on the track doesn't move across the soundstage any more from L < to > R etc. Neither tracks recorded in stereo or mono can be panned- I just get a decrease in volume when I go hard L or hard R, the max value is 63 in both cases I think. I get the desired volume when the pan value is 0, ie centered. Consequently the whole song, though playable, sounds somewhat unclear.

Take a percussion track for example, recorded off my Casio keyboard. It is generated and recorded in stereo, with a L and R clearly audible out of the keys headphone socket, also out of the Yamaha mixer headphone socket, and clearly visible in PT 17 as a stereo track with differing although complementary content in the L & R sub tracks making up one percussion track. Say a hi hats at L and a ride cymbal at R. Now when I try to pan the whole track to the L or R of the sound stage as I listen through headphones or through my amp and speakers, I just hear either the L side content , or both, or the R side content. But I cannot move the content as a whole to the L or R of the sound stage as I used to be able to do! Very frustrating when you're trying to construct a song as a whole with a clearly defined location for each source, eg. vox, keys, bass, gtr etc!

In Audio Preferences in PT17, I have the input channel for mono tracks set as L + R (2 tracks). I am now using ASIO drivers, after seeing rharv's example in his reply of last time. In the Delta card control panel, all sliders are equalised and all the L & R pan knobs are centered. Sample rate is 44,100. Best quality. Other than the ASIO choice, all these are the same settings I have had in PT9 and PT12 for years.

I have searched through the Help answers but can't quite understand the explanation of ports, etc. I am too dumb etc. for that stuff. Besides it doesn't cover my specific issue.

Can anyone shed any light on this problem? Thanks in anticipation,

John



Edited by Shackman01 (03/29/18 09:08 PM)

Top
#464910 - 03/30/18 04:42 PM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: No PT 9 or PT12 recording VU level action. [Re: Shackman01]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
If it doesn't pan at all, I'd first check the Mixer window in PT to see if the MONO mix option is enabled. I think it's on the bottom of the mixer.

After that I'd check the audio options in Windows.
Since W7 the 1010 mixer is also controlled in the Windows mixer section.

Right-clicking the speaker icon in the lower right taskbar can reveal the Windows related options (Windows playback devices and recording devices etc.).
Quote:
Say a hi hats at L and a ride cymbal at R. Now when I try to pan the whole track to the L or R of the sound stage as I listen through headphones or through my amp and speakers, I just hear either the L side content , or both, or the R side content. But I cannot move the content as a whole to the L or R of the sound stage as I used to be able to do! Very frustrating when you're trying to construct a song as a whole with a clearly defined location for each source, eg. vox, keys, bass, gtr etc!


This is something I've had a lot of trouble explaining/expressing.
It is better to record everything as a MONO track, and use 2 separate MONO tracks to record a stereo signal.

Why?
Because then you have better control.
If you use a stereo track, in order to move something to the left you lose some right, and vice-versa.

If they are 2 MONO tracks you can make a stereo piano still have some 'space' (L/R) but be towards the right side of the sound stage.
Ex: Panning one side of a stereo track -80 and the other side of the track -40 (by using 2 MONO tracks) still gives it some space, yet retains direction and place.

Your 1010 will record either 8 MONO tracks or 4 stereo tracks.
I ALWAYS prefer the 8 MONO tracks. In RB/PT this is determined by the Track Type you are recording to.
If the armed track is a MONO audio track, the program will record the rest of the tracks as MONO and insert them on the next available blank track(s) as MONO tracks.

If the armed track is a Stereo track, you'll end up with 4 stereo tracks instead.

Like I said I much prefer 8 MONO tracks, as I may be recording 8 separate audio inputs, and have the bass on 7 and guitar on 8 .. I want total control over each of them as individual tracks, and not have to lower the bass to increase the guitar (like a stereo track would), or pan them in a restricted way.

Check if your default track type changed to stereo. If so, make sure the track you arm is MONO (and change the default setting in Options if you can). Then later you'll have all your panning options available for mixing.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

Top
#470076 - 04/29/18 01:59 AM [PowerTracks Pro Audio] Re: No PT 9 or PT12 recording VU level action. [Re: rharv]
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 3
Shackman01 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 3
Hi RHarv and any interested others,

Firstly, thanks for your generous help with my issues so far. Much, much appreciated.

I struggled on for some time trying to work out why my set up wouldn't truly pan as explained above. I put into place all the suggestions RHarv offered, but no go.
Now, I have a Jam Vox as well, which is basically a USB powered external sound card for gtr practice, but with which it is possible to record to a PC. I found I could pan track content within PT17 as desired using the Jam Vox, so concluded the problem was with the Delta PCI card.
Although I focused closely on the Delta and did everything I could over about 2 weeks to get it to work fully, I just could not find the causitive issue. So I went out and got another interface, an M-Audio M- Track Quad ($349 AUD). Also USB (2.0) connected, but additionally using 6V 3A power. It is taking a bit of time to come to grips with this unit but the signs are good that it will work well with the new PC. And yes, I can pan track content now. So I said to myself "what the heck" and indulged in a nice pair of Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro Studio headphones as well.
So all up, a mere $2K AUD to get a happening combination but what price sanity?
Again my thanks for your willingness to help a mug 10,000 km way. I hope I can post the results here before too long.
Cheers,
John

Top


PG Music News
With Band-in-a-Box®, Making Music Has Never Been Easier!


We came across this recent post, Music Making Software: Record, Edit, Create and Share Your Own Songs, which includes Band-in-a-Box® in their list of software you'll need to record and edit your own songs!

One of our favourite products, and one that doesn’t seem to come up much in discussions about music making software, is Band-In-A-Box from PG Music. This is probably the longest established and certainly one of the most popular music making software packages of all time. Already packed with features, the latest version has added functions that in our opinion make this an essential buy for musicians in any genre, for keyboard players, guitarists, singers, in fact any musician looking for an outstanding tool to make the most of their creative ideas.
-www.musicrepo.com

The Download Manager - Band-in-a-Box® for Windows

The "Download Manager" within Band-in-a-Box® for Windows is a great tool to confirm or help with the installation of your Band-in-a-Box® for Windows program!

What does the Download Manager do?
Automatically installs Band-in-a-Box® content (RealTracks, RealDrums, etc.) in the background, so you don't have to sit there the whole time! It can also confirm that you've completely installed your purchase.

How do you use it?
Within the program, go to Help | Utilities | Run Download/Install Manager now. Using your activation code, the program will analyze the installation folders, and list anything that still needs to be downloaded and installed.

Learn more about the Download Manager with this tutorial, or check out the topic within the Online Manual.

Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Online Manual - Chord List & Shortcuts

Visit the Chord List of our Online Manual, and you'll see all the chords that can be used within the program! The list includes a few Tricky Chords and Shortcut Chords that you may find useful too!

Tricky Chords:
C5b This is "C flat 5." It is spelled this way to avoid confusion.
C2, C5, C4, C69, C7alt, Cm7#5
You can type C-7 for Cm7 (i.e. use the minus sign) or C7-9 for C7b9.

Shortcut Chords
If you enter a lot of songs, you will appreciate these shortcut keys.
J = Maj7
H = m7b5 (H stands for Half diminished)
D = dim
S = 7sus

There's even information on how to add your own chord shortcuts - check it out!

Video Request Answered - Creating Intros, Bridges, and Endings in Band-in-a-Box®

Check out the newest support video created by Kent that explains how to create intros, bridges, and endings in Band-in-a-Box®! Click here to view...

The Band-in-a-Box® SongPicker Feature

If you have a folder of songs that you'd always like easy access to within Band-in-a-Box, make sure you familiarize yourself with The SongPicker feature, which access the folder that you choose and lock it to!

Access the SongPicker by clicking on the [Song] button next to the title of the song within the main screen of Band-in-a-Box. The first time the SongPicker is opened, you can choose the folder to use to create the list by selecting [Change] and navigating to your preferred directory. Once chosen, select [OK - Make Song List], and Band-in-a-Box does the rest... the next time you click on [Song], you'll be taken directly to your preferred folder!

Learn even more about this feature within Chapter 5 of our Online Manual, here.

Just Launched - The FAQ and Knowledge Base Forum!

If you have a question (or questions!) about Band-in-a-Box®, PowerTracks, RealBand®, or any other PG Music Inc. product - whether it be technical support or pre-sales, there's now an easy one-stop spot to find the answer - our FAQ and Knowledge Base Forum!

Don't want to read through the 600+ posts? Use the Search FAQ option, and you can choose your key search terms to locate the topic and answer you're looking for!

Common pre-sales questions about our products, ordering, and delivery:
Pre-Sales

Technical support & troubleshooting by product:
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Band-in-a-Box® for Mac
RealBand® for Windows
PowerTracks Pro® Audio for Windows
Other Products

There's even a Request New FAQs forum, if you didn't see your question answered anywhere!

Over 190 Saxophone RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box®!

Today's the day we say "Happy Birthday" to Adolphe Sax, the creator of the Saxophone!
(Adolphe was born November 6, 1814 - 32 years later he patended his saxophone creation!)

We have more than 190 Saxophone RealTracks available for Band-in-a-Box with the following RealTracks Sets - review the complete list here.

Check our our Saxophonist programs for Windows:
The Jazz Saxophonist
The Rock Saxophonist

Forum Stats
28206 Members
59 Forums
54891 Topics
455184 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
rolandmammoliti, Lajos, stg, MichaelSF, Jaydude

28206 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Noel96 177
Al-David 143
Rustyspoon# 136
Tangmo 118
Matt Finley 117
Pipeline 116
BlueAttitude 116
Janice & Bud 115
floyd jane 114
44kfl 111
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays