You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#465066 - 03/31/18 11:02 PM [RealBand Wishlist] get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
robbey10 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
The number 10 channel drum track is dated and annoying VST's are so different than the original midi driver that it is an annoyance to have to skip a channel for every 10th one. it would really bring Powertracks and Realband into the 21st century.

Top
#465167 - 04/01/18 04:22 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5703
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5703
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
-1

No. I could not disagree with this thought more.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2020 UltraPlusPak BiaB(709) RealBand(Build 1)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i7 Desktop, 64bit Win 10 build 1909, 12 GB ram
256 GB M2 SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#465192 - 04/02/18 05:22 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11714
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11714
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
That's not up to PGMusic, because it's part of the MIDI standard. And dropping support will mean every vendor that supports the MIDI standard would also have to change.

The standard would have to change first, and even then I suspect there would be an option for backward compatibility because of the preponderance of already existing content that relies on the standard.

-1 for me also.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win10Pro64 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64 8GB

BB-RB2020/UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NIKomplete/Halion/Garritan/IK

http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#466095 - 04/08/18 11:13 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: jford]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10402
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10402
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I have to agree with Jim and John. Sorry.
-1 also.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2020(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#466196 - 04/08/18 08:56 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16236
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16236
Loc: Australia
robbey,

I'm not sure that I'm following when you mention 'skipping every tenth one'.

Unless my understanding is wrong, one doesn't have to use channel 10 exclusively for drums. It's particularly applicable if running a general midi synth VSTi/DXi but, other than that, if using a non-general midi synth other instruments can be assigned to channel 10.

Is your request about the fact that when a MIDI track is set to channel 10, the name "Drums" is automatically added?

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#466265 - 04/09/18 08:07 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11714
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11714
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I'm not meaning to be snarky here. i just want to understand.

I believe that this is one of those MIDI conventions you should know if you are getting into MIDI work. Just like tracks and channels are different. Channel 10 doesn't have to be on track 10. Yes, if you import a MIDI file, it tends to match tracks to channels, but you are free (even in PowerTracks and RealBand) to move them around as you see fit. You can make track one be the drum track (I do that all the time), just like you can in all the other 21st century DAW's (which also support channel 10 for General MIDI drums).

And every 10th doesn't make sense to me unless you are using multiple MIDI outputs, since a MIDI port only supports 16 channels (so there can only be one channel 10), but you can put the same channel on multiple tracks.

Just trying to better understand this request.

_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win10Pro64 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64 8GB

BB-RB2020/UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NIKomplete/Halion/Garritan/IK

http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#470665 - 05/01/18 05:08 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
robbey10 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
Have you people tried others, I use Sonor for my final rendering, and you don't have every 10th channel blocked for drums nor does Abelthon or any of the new sequencer? With all the new VST's you put things where you want them and on the channel that you want them. So, if other sequencers can override that, I don't see why I should waste every 10th channel for the same drum track.

Top
#470666 - 05/01/18 05:20 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
robbey10 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
No you don't have to use it for drums, however when you don't the picture of the drums is all you can choose for that track and when you are recording the melody you will hear percussion instead of the instrument you have chosen if you are in reroute to midi default mode.

Top
#470755 - 05/02/18 08:02 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11714
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11714
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I'm still not understanding "every 10th channel". There are only 16 MIDI channels to choose from per MIDI port, so there would only be one "channel 10". And again, that's not on PGMusic, that's the MIDI standard.

If you assign any track to MIDI channel 10, it's going to be interpreted from a MIDI perspective as drums. But you don't have to assign track 10 to channel 10. You can assign it to any channel.

It's been that way for 35 years since the standard was first adopted back in 1983. PGMusic is adhering to the standard, and that's certainly what I would expect.

Please provide some screen shots with more information as to what exactly the problem is. Or maybe someone else is seeing the problem clearly; I certainly am not.

And yes, most of us have used multiple DAW's. You'll see some of them in my signature line.

We would like to help you figure out your specific problem, but I'm pretty sure PGMusic isn't going to change and not support the documented standard for MIDI. And most DAW's I've seen let you assign whatever image you want for that track. There may be a default that pops up, but you can change it.

Even VST's must comply with those rules to be able to process the incoming data. The VST may choose to ignore some of the MIDI stream, but it still must recognize it and adjust accordingly.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win10Pro64 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64 8GB

BB-RB2020/UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NIKomplete/Halion/Garritan/IK

http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#470892 - 05/02/18 07:06 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5703
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5703
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Robbey10,

I believe you are confusing midi channels with midi tracks.

A midi instrument uses at least one channel but doesn't have to be limited to a single channel. While recording or composing midi data it is not unusual for midi guitar data to occupy six midi channels (one for each string), a piano to occupy two (left hand and rght hand). At some point though most people consolidate all of an instrument's data into one midi channel unless there is another need. Think about the piano again, you may want to have the left hand panned far left and the right hand panned far right or apply different effects. Then you will have to use two instances of the piano and they will need two midi channels.

Drums however are a special case though because drums don't have one, common sound at different pitches. Instead each note is a different instrument (kick, snare, closed high hat, open high hat, ride cymbal, crash cymbal and so on). That is why drums are assigned their own channel.

By the way, before the general midi (GM) standard was released each hardware manufacturer created their own standard. There was an informal agreement for drums to use channel 10 but some manufactures used channel 16. Microsoft released midi mapper to map midi channels to how your hardware works.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2020 UltraPlusPak BiaB(709) RealBand(Build 1)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i7 Desktop, 64bit Win 10 build 1909, 12 GB ram
256 GB M2 SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#473144 - 05/16/18 02:39 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 117
CoolBreeze Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 117
I think we're talking about multiple ports and exporting midi tracks. You can change all of that channel/program information in your DAW, so the only way it would be encoded would be on export.

Drums are expected to be on channel 10, but it's not mandatory that they are, so unless it's exported that way they you can use all 16 on one port for drums.


I'm not sure about the image thing, you should be able to change that.
_________________________
Windows 10 build 16299
2018 Ultra
Intel i5-3550 @ 3.3GHz
p8z77-v pro
RAM: 32GB
Roland V-Studio 100
Alesis VX49

https://soundcloud.com/dirtbom/

Top
#473224 - 05/17/18 07:57 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7971
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7971
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
You are totally wrong and best pick up the midi spec book and start reading.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php

Top
#473236 - 05/17/18 09:23 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: CoolBreeze]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
Originally Posted By: CoolBreeze
Drums are expected to be on channel 10, but it's not mandatory that they are, so unless it's exported that way they you can use all 16 on one port for drums.


Note, he said CHANNEL 10, not track 10. Every drum machine I ever had was hard coded to be set on MIDI 10 on boot up. You can move the drums to any TRACK you want. I usually put them on track 1, bass on track 2, just so the foundation tracks are at the top.


Edited by eddie1261 (05/17/18 09:24 AM)

Top
#477495 - 06/12/18 07:23 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
robbey10 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
No, I am not confusing midi tracks for channels. There are 16 channels and 48 tracks in Pro tracks and Realband. If you load a VST which does limit channel 10 to percussion and you use Cayote are your input but Let's say Kontakt 5 with actions strings on channel 10 the midi will display a picture of drums, it will send a message to Coyote that it should choose a standard drumset and when you play the keyboard, you will hear drums. Until you playback where it will play out of the output that contains Action Strings. And in most modern DAWS this is not the case and hasn't been since the year 2003.


Edited by robbey10 (06/12/18 07:24 PM)

Top
#477576 - 06/13/18 08:59 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11714
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11714
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I don't understand using Coyote as your input. Coyote is a synth to which you output, not input. Coyote isn't sending anything to Action Strings; the information on the actual track is (channel assignment, notes, other controls). But it's not coming from Coyote.

Coyote is a multi-timbral synth that contains the standard 16 MIDI channels (and channel 10 is reserved for drums there also). If you rechannel your track to a different channel (not 10), Coyote will play using that channel and it won't be drums.

And you can set each and every track in RealBand to whatever MIDI channel you want. And if you assign your synths to different ports, you can have every track on the same channel, but it will only play through the assigned port (and that particular synth's sound).

So again, to eliminate channel 10 as the percussion/drum channel would require a change to the GM standard and changes to every single GM compliant synth out there (not just BIAB or RealBand or Coyote...). Kontakt (with which you would play something like Action Strings) is NOT GM-compliant and doesn't care which channel the data is coming in on (although you have to match channels to the track so it will actually receive and respond to the incoming MIDI stream) and won't play drums even if it is on channel 10, because it's not a GM-compliant synth.

Also, RealBand won't have a clue about what you have set as the instrument in Kontakt, so the track will NOT show an appropriate icon indicating that instrument (as it does for Multi-Timbral synths). That's the way it is, because it only sees it as Kontakt, not something like Action Strings played by Kontakt. If you set the track to channel 10, it will assume it is drums, because by the GM spec it is. You can change the displayed icon yourself if you want something differenet to represent the actual instrument being played.

Sorry, but I'm still confused by this request.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win10Pro64 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64 8GB

BB-RB2020/UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NIKomplete/Halion/Garritan/IK

http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#477654 - 06/13/18 05:51 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5703
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5703
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: robbey10
Have you people tried others, I use Sonor for my final rendering, and you don't have every 10th channel blocked for drums nor does Abelthon or any of the new sequencer? With all the new VST's you put things where you want them and on the channel that you want them. So, if other sequencers can override that, I don't see why I should waste every 10th channel for the same drum track.


robbey10,

RealBand differs from Sonar and Ableton and any other DAW you can name. RealBand reserves the first eight tracks for Band-in-a-Box midi tracks by default. Other DAWs can not load native Band-in-a-Box (SGU & MGU suffix) files while RealBand can.

To remain compatible with Band-in-a-Box, RealBand needs to reserve midi channel 10 for drums.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2020 UltraPlusPak BiaB(709) RealBand(Build 1)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i7 Desktop, 64bit Win 10 build 1909, 12 GB ram
256 GB M2 SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top


PG Music News
Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac - No Sound with MIDI?

Have you ever experienced a No Sound issue when you're working with MIDI in Band-in-a-Box® for Mac?

We have an online tutorial that can walk you through some troubleshooting to resolve this, but why not check out our newest YouTube video instead?

Click here to watch...

Of course, you can always reach out to us directly if you're in need of assistance with the program!

#TipTuesday - The Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Feature Browser!

Don't underestimate the power of the Feature Browser added with Band-in-a-Box® 2020! This is a GREAT resource when you "know that you knew a feature" but just can't quite remember how to find it!

Simply click on the [?] at the top of the program (near the Mixer on the right) to launch this feature. From there, simply type in your query, or choose from the long list that appears in the Feature Browser window. If you're typing it in, you'll see that list change to only show the results that could fit your search - once you find what you're looking for, you can read more about it when you choose [Manual], if there's a video for the feature you can choose [Video] to view it, OR - if you don't need to read about the feature and just want to USE it, choose [Do it] and you're all set!

Watch this new feature in action when you jump to the subject in our New Features video:

10:19 - New Feature - Feature Browser

Give the Gift of Music with Band-in-a-Box®!

Did you wait too long to purchase flowers, a card, or book a restaurant for Valentine's Day? Or, maybe material gifts just aren't your thing?

Why not whip together a song in Band-in-a-Box? It's as easy as typing in some chords, choosing a style, and pressing play!

Or, take it a step further with the help of the Audio Chord Wizard and our StylePicker Song Titles Browser feature!
How???
-Use the Audio Chord Wizard to analyze their favorite song and provide you with the chord progression
-Take that chord progression and start a new project in Band-in-a-Box (choose "Erase the Audio WAV file in BB" | Enable style)
-Head to the StylePicker window, search for a style for that song using the "Song Titles Browser" Feature (top right)
-Choose from the list provided
-Press Play!

Like what you hear? Save it, and viola!

Holiday Hours - Family Day (Mon, Feb 17)

Monday, February 17th is Family Day!

Our hours on this holiday will be:
Customer Service: 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST
Technical Support: Closed.

Regular hours resume Tuesday, February 18th.

www.pgmusic.com/contact.htm

Get Out Your Guitar with Band-in-a-Box®!

Today is Get Out Your Guitar Day! To celebrate, "they" recommend gathering up a few friends with guitars to ROCK!

But, what if you're unable to round up your crew? That's where Band-in-a-Box® comes in!

There are more than 1,100 Guitar RealTracks available in Sets 1-352 by over 50 RealTracks Artists! Jam along with any of them when you create your own song using Guitar RealTracks, or play one of the demo songs for any Guitar you choose in the RealTracks picker dialog - simply choose your Guitar and click on the [Song Demo...] button within that window.

OR take it even farther when you head to the Soloist within Band-in-a-Box® and choose "Trade" when generating a Guitar Soloist track - choose between 2, 4, or 8 bars!

Learn more about the Trade option within Band-in-a-Box in Chapter 9 | "The Soloist" of our Online Manual.

RealBand® Bar Settings Explained

Pressing the [Bar] button or f5 while in the Chords Window of RealBand brings up the Settings for Bar for that song.

What can you do in Bar Settings?
-Key Changes
-Style Changes
-Instrument Changes
-RealTracks Changes (opens a new window)
-Access the UserTracks Development Settings
-assign bars to repeat
-Reset - All Bars or Current Bar

Band-in-a-Box® Bar Settings Explained

Right-click on any bar within Band-in-a-Box®, and you'll gain access to the Bar Settings for your song!
(also accessed by choosing "Settings for Current Bar" within the Edit menu of the program, or clicking f5)

What can you do within this window?
-Edit the number of beats per bar
-tempo changes
-Key Signature changes
-volume changes for each track (Bass, Piano, Drums, etc)
-MIDI Patch Changes
-Harmony Changes (choose which bar & beat!)
-access to UserTracks Development
-Clear the Style
-Access to RealDrums features (including Clearing the RealDrums)
-change the RealTracks at selected bar
-Reset ALL the bars or the selected bar
-Access Print Summary of Bar Settings

We have a video about Bar Settings, if you're interested: Band-in-a-Box® for Windows: Bar Settings Overview

For those that like to read about features, check out the PDF manual, specifically Chapter 6: Making Songs. Or, read this information within the Online Manual.

Forum Stats
31197 Members
63 Forums
62423 Topics
528084 Posts

Max Online: 2537 @ 01/19/20 07:09 AM
Newest Members
vne5, monty414, Paul_V, BobbyL, jms27000

31198 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
MarioD 140
Noel96 124
VideoTrack 123
Janice & Bud 116
Pipeline 116
floyd jane 108
Rustyspoon# 103
BabuMusic 101
Torrey Bliss 96
rayc 96
Today's Birthdays
Biglad