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#465066 - 03/31/18 11:02 PM [RealBand Wishlist] get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention
Registered: 04/27/06
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robbey10 Offline
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Posts: 26
The number 10 channel drum track is dated and annoying VST's are so different than the original midi driver that it is an annoyance to have to skip a channel for every 10th one. it would really bring Powertracks and Realband into the 21st century.

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#465167 - 04/01/18 04:22 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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-1

No. I could not disagree with this thought more.
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#465192 - 04/02/18 05:22 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
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jford Offline
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That's not up to PGMusic, because it's part of the MIDI standard. And dropping support will mean every vendor that supports the MIDI standard would also have to change.

The standard would have to change first, and even then I suspect there would be an option for backward compatibility because of the preponderance of already existing content that relies on the standard.

-1 for me also.
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#466095 - 04/08/18 11:13 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: jford]
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VideoTrack Offline
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I have to agree with Jim and John. Sorry.
-1 also.
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#466196 - 04/08/18 08:56 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
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Noel96 Offline
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robbey,

I'm not sure that I'm following when you mention 'skipping every tenth one'.

Unless my understanding is wrong, one doesn't have to use channel 10 exclusively for drums. It's particularly applicable if running a general midi synth VSTi/DXi but, other than that, if using a non-general midi synth other instruments can be assigned to channel 10.

Is your request about the fact that when a MIDI track is set to channel 10, the name "Drums" is automatically added?

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#466265 - 04/09/18 08:07 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
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jford Offline
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I'm not meaning to be snarky here. i just want to understand.

I believe that this is one of those MIDI conventions you should know if you are getting into MIDI work. Just like tracks and channels are different. Channel 10 doesn't have to be on track 10. Yes, if you import a MIDI file, it tends to match tracks to channels, but you are free (even in PowerTracks and RealBand) to move them around as you see fit. You can make track one be the drum track (I do that all the time), just like you can in all the other 21st century DAW's (which also support channel 10 for General MIDI drums).

And every 10th doesn't make sense to me unless you are using multiple MIDI outputs, since a MIDI port only supports 16 channels (so there can only be one channel 10), but you can put the same channel on multiple tracks.

Just trying to better understand this request.

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#470665 - 05/01/18 05:08 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 04/27/06
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robbey10 Offline
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Have you people tried others, I use Sonor for my final rendering, and you don't have every 10th channel blocked for drums nor does Abelthon or any of the new sequencer? With all the new VST's you put things where you want them and on the channel that you want them. So, if other sequencers can override that, I don't see why I should waste every 10th channel for the same drum track.

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#470666 - 05/01/18 05:20 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: Noel96]
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robbey10 Offline
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No you don't have to use it for drums, however when you don't the picture of the drums is all you can choose for that track and when you are recording the melody you will hear percussion instead of the instrument you have chosen if you are in reroute to midi default mode.

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#470755 - 05/02/18 08:02 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
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Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
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I'm still not understanding "every 10th channel". There are only 16 MIDI channels to choose from per MIDI port, so there would only be one "channel 10". And again, that's not on PGMusic, that's the MIDI standard.

If you assign any track to MIDI channel 10, it's going to be interpreted from a MIDI perspective as drums. But you don't have to assign track 10 to channel 10. You can assign it to any channel.

It's been that way for 35 years since the standard was first adopted back in 1983. PGMusic is adhering to the standard, and that's certainly what I would expect.

Please provide some screen shots with more information as to what exactly the problem is. Or maybe someone else is seeing the problem clearly; I certainly am not.

And yes, most of us have used multiple DAW's. You'll see some of them in my signature line.

We would like to help you figure out your specific problem, but I'm pretty sure PGMusic isn't going to change and not support the documented standard for MIDI. And most DAW's I've seen let you assign whatever image you want for that track. There may be a default that pops up, but you can change it.

Even VST's must comply with those rules to be able to process the incoming data. The VST may choose to ignore some of the MIDI stream, but it still must recognize it and adjust accordingly.
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#470892 - 05/02/18 07:06 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Robbey10,

I believe you are confusing midi channels with midi tracks.

A midi instrument uses at least one channel but doesn't have to be limited to a single channel. While recording or composing midi data it is not unusual for midi guitar data to occupy six midi channels (one for each string), a piano to occupy two (left hand and rght hand). At some point though most people consolidate all of an instrument's data into one midi channel unless there is another need. Think about the piano again, you may want to have the left hand panned far left and the right hand panned far right or apply different effects. Then you will have to use two instances of the piano and they will need two midi channels.

Drums however are a special case though because drums don't have one, common sound at different pitches. Instead each note is a different instrument (kick, snare, closed high hat, open high hat, ride cymbal, crash cymbal and so on). That is why drums are assigned their own channel.

By the way, before the general midi (GM) standard was released each hardware manufacturer created their own standard. There was an informal agreement for drums to use channel 10 but some manufactures used channel 16. Microsoft released midi mapper to map midi channels to how your hardware works.
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#473144 - 05/16/18 02:39 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/07/17
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CoolBreeze Offline
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I think we're talking about multiple ports and exporting midi tracks. You can change all of that channel/program information in your DAW, so the only way it would be encoded would be on export.

Drums are expected to be on channel 10, but it's not mandatory that they are, so unless it's exported that way they you can use all 16 on one port for drums.


I'm not sure about the image thing, you should be able to change that.
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#473224 - 05/17/18 07:57 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
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silvertones Offline
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You are totally wrong and best pick up the midi spec book and start reading.
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#473236 - 05/17/18 09:23 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: CoolBreeze]
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eddie1261 Offline
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Originally Posted By: CoolBreeze
Drums are expected to be on channel 10, but it's not mandatory that they are, so unless it's exported that way they you can use all 16 on one port for drums.


Note, he said CHANNEL 10, not track 10. Every drum machine I ever had was hard coded to be set on MIDI 10 on boot up. You can move the drums to any TRACK you want. I usually put them on track 1, bass on track 2, just so the foundation tracks are at the top.


Edited by eddie1261 (05/17/18 09:24 AM)

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#477495 - 06/12/18 07:23 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/27/06
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robbey10 Offline
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No, I am not confusing midi tracks for channels. There are 16 channels and 48 tracks in Pro tracks and Realband. If you load a VST which does limit channel 10 to percussion and you use Cayote are your input but Let's say Kontakt 5 with actions strings on channel 10 the midi will display a picture of drums, it will send a message to Coyote that it should choose a standard drumset and when you play the keyboard, you will hear drums. Until you playback where it will play out of the output that contains Action Strings. And in most modern DAWS this is not the case and hasn't been since the year 2003.


Edited by robbey10 (06/12/18 07:24 PM)

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#477576 - 06/13/18 08:59 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
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jford Offline
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I don't understand using Coyote as your input. Coyote is a synth to which you output, not input. Coyote isn't sending anything to Action Strings; the information on the actual track is (channel assignment, notes, other controls). But it's not coming from Coyote.

Coyote is a multi-timbral synth that contains the standard 16 MIDI channels (and channel 10 is reserved for drums there also). If you rechannel your track to a different channel (not 10), Coyote will play using that channel and it won't be drums.

And you can set each and every track in RealBand to whatever MIDI channel you want. And if you assign your synths to different ports, you can have every track on the same channel, but it will only play through the assigned port (and that particular synth's sound).

So again, to eliminate channel 10 as the percussion/drum channel would require a change to the GM standard and changes to every single GM compliant synth out there (not just BIAB or RealBand or Coyote...). Kontakt (with which you would play something like Action Strings) is NOT GM-compliant and doesn't care which channel the data is coming in on (although you have to match channels to the track so it will actually receive and respond to the incoming MIDI stream) and won't play drums even if it is on channel 10, because it's not a GM-compliant synth.

Also, RealBand won't have a clue about what you have set as the instrument in Kontakt, so the track will NOT show an appropriate icon indicating that instrument (as it does for Multi-Timbral synths). That's the way it is, because it only sees it as Kontakt, not something like Action Strings played by Kontakt. If you set the track to channel 10, it will assume it is drums, because by the GM spec it is. You can change the displayed icon yourself if you want something differenet to represent the actual instrument being played.

Sorry, but I'm still confused by this request.
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#477654 - 06/13/18 05:51 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: robbey10
Have you people tried others, I use Sonor for my final rendering, and you don't have every 10th channel blocked for drums nor does Abelthon or any of the new sequencer? With all the new VST's you put things where you want them and on the channel that you want them. So, if other sequencers can override that, I don't see why I should waste every 10th channel for the same drum track.


robbey10,

RealBand differs from Sonar and Ableton and any other DAW you can name. RealBand reserves the first eight tracks for Band-in-a-Box midi tracks by default. Other DAWs can not load native Band-in-a-Box (SGU & MGU suffix) files while RealBand can.

To remain compatible with Band-in-a-Box, RealBand needs to reserve midi channel 10 for drums.
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PG Music News
SongPicker Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac!

The Band-in-a-Box® SongPicker has been enhanced with our newest 2020 version!

The SongPicker now builds faster for large song lists (>30K and up to 60,000 songs). The [Song] button (or the [Open] button) now has 3 additional menu items to launch the SongPicker.

- Open SongPicker in Current Folder: This opens the SongPicker in the current folder of the last loaded song.
- Open SongPicker in Home Folder: This opens the SongPicker in the home folder, which is Applications/Band-in-a-Box/MySongs or as set in the SongPicker.
- Open SongPicker in Favorite Folder: This launches the Favorite Folder dialog which allows you to choose any previously used folder where a song was loaded from, and then open the SongPicker in that folder.

In the SongPicker, there is a new “Open in Home” option. If this is enabled, the SongPicker will always open in the home folder instead of the current folder when you press the default [Song] button to open the SongPicker.

Searching for songs matching a chord progression or melody has been enhanced. There are three new checkboxes: "Key must match exactly," "Chord Extension must match exactly", and "Time Signature must match."

Click here to jump to the SongPicker subject in our New Features video to learn more. (32:11)

(read more about this feature in our Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Mac Online Upgrade Manual.)

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New "Feature Browser" in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac

Band-in-a-Box® has so many features! We add 50 new ones with every version, so you may have forgotten all the different things that Band-in-a-Box® can do. Fortunately, with the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2020 we've solved this issue by added a Feature Browser!

How does it work? Access this feature by clicking on the [?] button on the main screen of the program or pressing the / Enter keys on the Chord Sheet. This dialog lists many features of the program and allows you to browse them, find the feature by text filter, read descriptions about the feature, find how to launch the feature, access to the online information or video about the feature, and do more.

Examples of a few situations where this feature is helpful:

-You know about a feature but don't know how to find it. Just type a part of the feature name and you'll see the hotkeys, menu, and toolbar info on how to launch it. For example, if you want to launch the Chord Builder but don’t know how to do it, type "builder" in the text filter, and you will quickly find the Chord Builder.
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You can't remember hotkeys and want to review them.

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(read more about this feature in our Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Mac Online Upgrade Manual.)

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Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Patch Update Ready! (Build 321)

Still using Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac? There's a new FREE patch available! Click here to read more and download this free patch update (Build 321).

Summary of changes for build 321 (Mar 23, 2020):
Fixed: Song title will be changed to ? when re-saving if it previously contained international characters like é or ©.
Fixed: Event List window is using wrong colors.
Fixed: Some song titles are blank in the Song Titles dialog.
Fixed: Clicking on Print Chords from the chord sheet context menu causes application to crash.
Fixed: On some computers the application will crash when opening the Piano Roll window.
Fixed: Gender Param. setting was ignored in the Generate Synthetic Vocal dialog.
Fixed: Vibrato Intensity setting was ignored in the Generate Synthetic Vocal dialog.
Fixed: Pitch shifting setting was ignored in the Generate Synthetic Vocal dialog.
Fixed: There is no option to cancel when generating a synthetic vocal.
Fixed: The Vocal Synth feature would freeze for various operating systems.
Fixed: Language selection for the Vocal Synth generator was wrong.
Fixed: Possible crash when using the Audio Chord Wizard.
Fixed: Jazz Up or Jazz Down was not undoable.
Fixed: Dropping video files onto the Video RealTracks dialog failed, displaying flash message reporting that the video format was not compatible.
Fixed: The copyright button in the Print Options dialog did not do anything.
Fixed: Soloist > Edit Soloist Track > Remove Harmony would display popup message "not implemented".
Fixed: Soloist > Edit Soloist Track > Convert Harmony to Soloist Track would also launch the Generate Chords and/or Melody dialog.
Fixed: Soloist > Edit Soloist Track > Auto-Rechannel to Guitar Display would also toggle Embellish Melody.
Fixed: Possible crash when opening Song Picker dialog.
Fixed: Edit > Song Form > Unfold does not remove the tag ending.
Fixed: Application crash when using Edit > Song Form > Unfold if song contains tag ending.
Fixed: Tracks are listed twice in the Load XML File dialog.
Fixed: The note name indicator in the Notation window was not displaying.
Fixed: "...NOT rendered successfully to disk” error when using "Export Song as M4A" or "Export Song as AIFF".
Fixed: "invalid integer" error when loading some ABC files.
Fixed: "There was an error converting” error when attempting to import compressed audio files (.m4a, .mp3, etc.)
Fixed: User is not asked to save their song after applying a harmony to Melody or Soloist track.
Fixed: The demo player might fail to play a local file.
Fixed: There should be a warning message when opening the Notation window if the notation fonts are not installed.
Fixed: If opening a song from an version 2017 or earlier, any Audio Chord Wizard bar lines might be offset.
Fixed: The Guitar window did not display the capo.
Improved: Guitar capo setting can be changed by right-clicking the fret position bar.
Fixed: The Chord Builder did not update position when clicking on a different bar in the chord sheet.
Fixed: Changing a custom track label had not option to Undo, and did not prompt user to save song.
Fixed: Importing an ABCNotation file would not include the key signature.
Fixed: ABC files only opening some chords.
Fixed: Problem storing minor keys.
Fixed: MusicXML files created by Band-in-a-Box cannot be loaded by Band-in-a-Box if song title contains & (ampersand).
Improved: More detailed bootup log.

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