Hello Folks, This song is incomplete - I'm waiting on solos for the intro and change but am struggling with too many options for the intro. I had considered placing this in the sad song section but I need feedback on other aspects so it's here - sorry. The song is "in the style of" or inspired by Magazine. As a result there're a lot of effects on the guitars etc. to give it an 80s feel. BIAB built the drums, though I did some cuting n pasting for the intro, and a background Blues B3 Organ, (it was a stereo file but I rendered it to mono and threw a high pass filter across it) with the rest being a Squire Mustang HH guitar through various effects: Mel 9 for strings/orchestra, ACTone for chime up the middle in the chorus, Yamaha FX500 for the phased/flanged/wooshing shoe gaze sounds drenched in delay/reverb excess and a Vantage bass - verses DI through a BDI21 while choruses are through a straight bass preset in FX500. Sadly, I'm singing on this one as I was unable to find a volunteer who felt inclined to approximate Howard Devoto. Any comments are most welcome and specifics regarding the appropriateness of the intro are particularly sort after.
Didn't mind this at all. The mix has plenty of depth and had a definite eighties feel. Nice work on the lyrics and the vocals sounded fine to me. Rob
Thanks Rob, it was deep, dark, dense and muddy at 1st but i did thin things out. The lyrics I scribbled down a couple of years ago and found when searching for something brief to match the structure.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Hi Rayc I agree with Bob that it has a kind of Bowie vibe going on...nothing wrong with that voice IMHO. Enjoyed it.
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I realize this is in draft stage but I can't tell if it is being mixed in a DAW. The levels of the bass and drums are not what one would expect, the drums don't thump and pound and it is hard to hear the bass in the mix.
The vocals definitely need to come up.
Again this may just be a BIAB rendered track you are showing us for a rough draft and if so it works for that. I like the music.
When it comes to mixing though, those drums have to pound and need drums EQ. I would double or triple the drum tracks. The bass needs to be a lot fatter with the bottom end shaved off some so it really cuts through those drums. Once you have the vocals sitting on top of the bass and drums layer other stuff in.
I have started an experiment by pasting a Mixing and Songwriting Checklist that represents the best of the best feedback tools I have seen.
I try and go through this check list with all of my songs and felt it might be helpful.
I really liked this song. Super vocal. Backtrack was very close . Liked the chord progressions
Thanks Scott, It was a quick and easy writing process. the lyrics already existed and the chorus chords came to me as I was playing a different song. The verse & structure followed quickly. The struggle with this has been the arrangement - it was very crowded originally, dense, dark and swimming. The chorus still seems a little full but things are much thinner than they were.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Another Bowie reference is nice. It does suggest that Magazine weren't very well known or I'm a LONG way from hitting my target...
The vocals, being my three note extended range, are deliberately held back. I know my limitations and chief among those is an inability to actually sing. I will, however, have a listen & try to find the cringe threshold.
Doubling/tripling a drum track would merely make it twice or thrice as loud unless there are different treatments on each. Being that this is a BIAB stereo track that could be a possibility with one heavily compressed and EQd then used like a Motown Exciter track. Chief problem for me is the dominance of the high hat which I've had to address with EQ. I have plenty of headroom in the mix so will solo the drums then rhythm buss to consider an increase to the levels &/or a little EQing.
The bass has a low pass, a slight bump for definition and some mud removed as well as some "treatment" in the chorus but I'll have another squiz. Sorry - High Pass filter not low pass.
I had a look at the checklist - interesting, thanks.
Last edited by rayc; 06/06/1812:26 PM. Reason: Silly mistake
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray, I like the dark lyrics and feel of this ( not sure it reminds me of Magazine, but definitely more Joy Division than Bowie) and the intro works. Interested to hear what you add later as its layered already. I think David is on the money about the drums and vocals needing to come up in the mix...remember your cringe threshold for your own voice is likely more sensitive than others!
I've just had a listen. I love the atmosphere that you create as this song progresses. You've done a great job getting these sounds to build such ambience! I wish I could be more helpful. Unfortunately I know very little about music of this genre. As a result, any comments I make on creation, construction or mixing would have pretty much zero value. Not being able to listen critically, though, did not diminish the fact that I was impressed by what you've done so far.
Ray, I like the dark lyrics and feel of this ( not sure it reminds me of Magazine, but definitely more Joy Division than Bowie) and the intro works. Interested to hear what you add later as its layered already. I think David is on the money about the drums and vocals needing to come up in the mix...remember your cringe threshold for your own voice is likely more sensitive than others! Robert
Robert, Thanks: JD is a firm favourites for me. I have everything officially released and a few boots as well. The intro wasn't really added afterward - the bass, a simple drum pattern & heavily treated guitars were there all along - I cut & pasted the short phrase drum into that section and heavily edited the bass to match. The original mix had drums, bass & effect laden guitars, then I swapped it to just the effect laden guitars & simple drum pattern, next was just the guitars with no drums or bass and this iteration is as you heard it. I haven't had a chance to tweak today but will do tomorrow.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I've just had a listen. I love the atmosphere that you create as this song progresses. You've done a great job getting these sounds to build such ambience! I wish I could be more helpful. Unfortunately I know very little about music of this genre. As a result, any comments I make on creation, construction or mixing would have pretty much zero value. Not being able to listen critically, though, did not diminish the fact that I was impressed by what you've done so far.
All the best, Noel
Hello Noel, I don't need genre specific comments at all mate - you've offered positive and helpful comments which transcend genre. The atmosphere & ambience is mostly due to the "soft focus" effect in the Yamaha FX500. Thanks for your generous words.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Very unique sound and atmosphere! I agree with Bob. No issue with the intro - I also thought it fit the mood very well. Just as my favorite, it is better that the melodies played B3 come out to the front. The combination of 4 beat batting snare and bass continuing with eight beat is pleasant. Enjoyed my listen a lot.
Yep... got to agree... sounds like Bowie's style in there.
Cool stuff. And it's different from most of the songs here....which is a good thing
It needs a really cool, upper register guitar solo there around the 3 minute mark.
GuitarHacker, Thanks very much for your kind words. HOPEFULLY there'll be a solo mixed into the track in three or four days time. the guitarist has already written & done a draft of his part but hasn't had time to record it in the right environment.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Hello, Ray Very unique sound and atmosphere! I agree with Bob. No issue with the intro - I also thought it fit the mood very well. Just as my favorite, it is better that the melodies played B3 come out to the front. The combination of 4 beat batting snare and bass continuing with eight beat is pleasant. Enjoyed my listen a lot. Best regards. Shigeki Adachi
Thank you very much Shigeki Adachi. Another thumb up for the current intro - cool. The B3 parts you hear are the good bits from the BIAB realtrack the machine generated. I'm neither patient nor skilled enough to generate a few variations and then comp the best bits together. Playing bass across the section of drums was a nightmare - I did about 20 takes to get the two to sit properly.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
BIAB info - DRUMS RockHardModern Ev6 ORGAN B# Background Blues BB Ev085 I read, thought & listened quite a bit then went downstairs to have a go at tweaks to, at least partially, employ the recommendations made. While I was there I tidied the bass part quite a bit. A little EQ carving of the bass bottom end to allow the kick drum more thump, a little more level in the entire drum track a tweak to the upper mids of the bass and the smallest sparrow fart of a lift in vocal level along with removing the reverb from it & thinning the delay. CPH Tweaked a bit Any & all thoughts gratefully received and seriously considered.
Last edited by rayc; 06/08/1809:20 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
rayc, wow this has a very strong Bowie vibe going on and it really sounds good to me! I found myself imagining a wailing guitar solo coming in later in the song, but that's just my taste! The intro seemed to work fine to me. There isn't enough time there to worry about trying to do to much before the vocal begins. Your vocal sounds great to me! Thanks, Torrey
rayc, wow this has a very strong Bowie vibe going on and it really sounds good to me! I found myself imagining a wailing guitar solo coming in later in the song, but that's just my taste! The intro seemed to work fine to me. There isn't enough time there to worry about trying to do to much before the vocal begins. Your vocal sounds great to me! Thanks, Torrey
Torrey, Thank you sir. I'm awaiting a solo to complete this track - there's a chap in Wales that has sorted/written/planned it but hasn't recorded it yet. With singing, melodies and solos I usually graft in someone as I have no facility with such things. Again, thanks.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Great. Wow, what a difference a few tweaks can make.
Thank you very much David. The tweaks, based on your general suggestions, are fairly simple - the bass tweaks reflecting tthe drum tweaks. Drums, as you know, present a problem in a stereo kit file BUT I was lucky that the bass drum had a fair bit of space to call its own due to a lack of tom action... [img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/l5sy226xzelxwgg/rhythm%20section%20tweaks.JPG?dl=0[/img] This was the best I could manage this evening as I've not worked out how to insert an image without going off site.
Last edited by rayc; 06/10/1809:28 PM. Reason: explanation
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Yeah, it's different...at least from most forum posts but it's good to shake things up every now and then.
We were lost in bluegrass during the Bowie years but have begun to check more and more of him and others from that period. So at least we have a bit of reference when listening to this.
The intro works fine for us as does the entire production. It as apparent from the get go that this needs to be cranked up for max appreciation. So I did - to a level my audiologist would frown upon
I think it was David that used the word "dramatic" and I agree. I might add cinematic also.
This is really nice, Ray. Love the bass! I think your voice is cool - works perfectly for this. A terrific listen. fj
FJ is a pretty famous set of initials in Australia - the 2nd model of motorcar designed & built in Australia (by the General Motors/Holden group) - lots of songs about it too but this is the best... Thanks for your kind words - the bass was, for me, quite hard work in the chorus.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray, With stereo real track drums, I still triple them and EQ each track completely differently to bring out different aspects of the kit. It seems to work pretty well but I admit I bow to the genius of IK Multimedia plugins. Great job again on the new version.
I'll give the triple treatment a burl on my next track - experimentation can be fun and you're recommending from a successful position so I'll give it a go. Thanks David.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
We've joined the party subsequent to the tweaks. The intro works fine for us as does the entire production. It as apparent from the get go that this needs to be cranked up for max appreciation. So I did - to a level my audiologist would frown upon We look forward to hearing the guitar also.
Cranking the volume is a complement I'll take. I need decent volume these days to drown out my tinnitus, (cause - effect - cause cycle now), I look forward to the guitar as well - it's been delayed by the guitarists life getting in the way. Thanks for your kind words.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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