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I've been stuck for a while in a lyric-less dry spell, so I figured I'd do an instrumental. I was aiming for a sort of "Ventures" sound without the surf: Shangri-LaThere's not much to say about this one. It's basically the _BARGPOP demo tune with a few minor alterations and a (not very convincing) MIDI guitar lead alternating with the PopCountryBrent RealTrack. The Usual Suspects:684:Bass, Electric, PopHalfNotesSync Ev 120 686:Organ, B3, Background Pop Ev 120 405:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120 2499:Guitar, Baritone Electric, Rhythm PopCountryBrent Ev 120 888:Piano, Acoustic, Solo-Accompaniment PopBronx Ev 120 Drums: NashvilleEven8^8 Solo Guitar: Strum Maker IV AcousticAs always, comments are appreciated.
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A very nice production all round David. I enjoyed my listen very much.
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Nice instrumental, although it gets a wee bit too busy at times.
In my opinion I would thin it down a bit, take away the rabble.
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Hi David,
Great backing track! Always been a fan of that surf-sound.
What a pity your lyrics are going through a barren time - this would sound fabulous with
some harmony vocals over it. Maybe you could re-visit it at sometime.
Anyway, still loved the instrumental.
ROG.
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A very nice production all round David. I enjoyed my listen very much. Thanks, Joanne.
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Nice instrumental, although it gets a wee bit too busy at times.
In my opinion I would thin it down a bit, take away the rabble. It's a bit flabbly in the middle, where the build is more "get louder" by adding instrumentation rather than building as a real solo would go (faster licks, ascending lines, etc.), so that's probably the biggest failing. Thanks for the feedback! 
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What a pity your lyrics are going through a barren time - this would sound fabulous with
some harmony vocals over it. Maybe you could re-visit it at sometime. I've got a nice backing track I've been working with for weeks, but nothing's clicking. So I figured I'd focus on something else for a bit. I haven't cracked how to get a convincing guitar solo yet, but I figured I'd start with this. My son's suggestion was actually for me to have less notes, and add more expression to what's there. I was a bit lazy in that area and relied on the samples to do too much work. I don't generally use diminished chords that much, and now I've got that stepwise line stuck in my head, where the backing track does an E Fdim/F#m B chromatic movement. So I guess I'll be sneaking in more of those in the future. Thanks for listening! 
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The tone and mix on this are great.
Love the "sound."
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I don't generally use diminished chords that much, and now I've got that stepwise line stuck in my head, where the backing track does an E Fdim/F#m B chromatic movement. So I guess I'll be sneaking in more of those in the future. I've had a love affair with diminished chords for years - they're addictive! Ah, but have you explored diminished 7ths yet? ROG.
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Hi, David. Glad you liked it!
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Ah, but have you explored diminished 7ths yet? Hi, ROG. You mean that lovely stack of minor thirds where every note is (and isn't) the root? I recall reading that Mozart had a particular love for diminished chords, and some people complained that they gave his music an "oily" sort of feel.  Back in my younger days, one of the first good music theory books I read was How To Play the Piano Despite Years of Lessons. It suggested that you could learn a bunch of diminished chords, or be lazy and learn just three diminished 7th chords. So for good or ill, if I see a dim chord, I'll play a dim7 unless it sounds truly terrible. I then read Jazz and Commercial Arranging that explained that harmonizing non-chordal tones using diminished 7ths may not be the best option, but it was often the simplest (and by implication, laziest). So I think of them as "cheater" chords, and probably don't use them nearly enough.  They're also a nice way of taking a linear progression and making it sound more jazzy, such as changing: I / / / | ii / / / | iii / / / | IV / / /into: Imaj7 / / I#o7 | ii7 / / ii#o7 | iii7 / / iii#o7 | IVmaj7 / / /Got any other suggestions on how to use them? I'm all ears!
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I, too, have been aimlessly wondering in lyric-less land. A barren landscape indeed.
I think it sounds good. FWIW, i've very rarely gotten a RT solo that I liked (other than turnarounds) w/o extensive comping.
May the lyric muse return!
Bud
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I, too, have been aimlessly wondering in lyric-less land. A barren landscape indeed. Sometimes, it's like the lyric is right there, but just out of reach. And I'll try writing something, and it'll fall so short from what I was aiming for, I wonder if I've ever written a song before. Sometimes it's a bit like chasing a ghost - T.S. Eliot comes to mind:  Who is the third who walks always beside you?
When I count, there are only you and I together
But when I look ahead up the white road
There is always another one walking beside you
Gliding wrapt in a brown mantle, hooded
I do not know whether a man or a woman
—But who is that on the other side of you?I think it sounds good. FWIW, i've very rarely gotten a RT solo that I liked (other than turnarounds) w/o extensive comping. Thanks! I've had the exact experience - the RTs sound awesome, but need some nudges (or shoves) to focus where you want them to be. That's why I'm looking at sampled guitars - but they have their own special challenges, because you have to build it from scratch. With RTs, it's more a matter of focusing in on the ideas that the player offers. May the lyric muse return! Yeah, I'll just keep plugging away. I'm looking forward from something new from you as well.
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Sounds good, David. Good mix.
Interesting that you've used a STRUM ACOUSTIC guitar to get a lead - that sounds like an electric...
I think you are a Studio One user? Did you download and install the VG Sparkle that they were offering for free??
(I often find RT leads that I like with very little comping...)
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Excellent tune David. Very nice listen. Well done.
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Sounds good, David. Good mix. Glad to hear it. Interesting that you've used a STRUM ACOUSTIC guitar to get a lead - that sounds like an electric... A couple months ago I'd emailed Tracy at Indiginus asking which acoustic would be best for lead, and he suggested Strummaker IV. It comes with two versions - the "strum" interface, and a regular sampled guitar. That sampled guitar has a number of different options, including a simulated 12 string and an "amped" version, which is the one that I used. Ironically, I just dropped a bunch of money on the Orange Tree Samples sale and got a bunch of acoustic guitars and a really nice electric guitar, but I used the Indiginus guitar here because I find much more playable out of the box. I was really impressed by the Indiginus Renegade Electric Guitar, but was looking for something with a slightly different sound. But Tracy just recently announced an acoustic version of the Renegade, so I'm really looking forward to that. I don't really need another sampled acoustic, but his stuff is fun to play. I think you are a Studio One user? No, I use Reaper. But the VG Sparkle looks like a cool virtual instrument - a lot like NI Session Guitarist Electric Sunburst, which is what set me off on this virtual instrument buying spree in the first place. I've still got to get the NI Sunburst at some point, because I've really enjoyed playing the acoustic versions. But right now, I have a bunch of OTS instruments I need use before I can justify spending more money.
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Excellent tune David. Very nice listen. Well done. Thanks, Scott. Glad to hear it.
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Very nice instrumental pop song with nice chording and melody, especially near the end. I would like to hear a vocal version of this, so I really hope you break the spell and find inspiration for lyrics Janne
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Nice instrumental, David. Midi guitar doesn't sound bad to me, probably wouldn't have noticed it you hadn't said anything. Mix sounds good also.
With the midi guitar VSTi, do you compose the melody on a midi keyboard to make a midi file and then send it to the VSTi? (Sorry if that is a dumb question, I'm totally ignorant on midi stuff :))
Overall a good tune, enjoyed the listen.
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Very nice instrumental pop song with nice chording and melody, especially near the end. I would like to hear a vocal version of this, so I really hope you break the spell and find inspiration for lyrics Thanks, Janne! Actually, I think "inspiration" might be part of the problem. I need to be happy with "uninspired" ideas, and craft them into something decent. I think my "critic" filter is set too dang high.
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With the midi guitar VSTi, do you compose the melody on a midi keyboard to make a midi file and then send it to the VSTi? (Sorry if that is a dumb question, I'm totally ignorant on midi stuff :)) It's not a dumb question! I used my DAW, but only because I'm more comfortable using that MIDI editor, but I could just as easily done it all in BiaB. I set up the VSTi in the DAW, assigned it to a MIDI channel, and then played my MIDI controller keyboard into my computer, recording the performance in my DAW. Afterwards, I edited the heck out of it. Exactly the same as it would work in BiaB. With this instrument, various articulations (such as slides or hammer-ons) can be triggered via velocity or MIDI keys, which helps a lot with realism. The Indiginus instruments are pretty cheap, but require a full version of Kontakt. I happened to be eligible for up upgrade during their sale the other month, but prior to that I'd been running it in the Kontakt player, which meant reloading it every 15 minutes when the demo mode expired. I picked up some different guitar VSTis during Orange Tree Sample's annual group buy, which got down to a 60% discount. I ended up "saving" a bit too much money, if you get my drift. Note - VSTis looks pretty stupid, doesn't it? But I can't bring myself to write VSTi's, because that's just wrong. The OTS instruments are more expensive because they run in the free Kontakt player, and automatically figure out what articulation via clever scripting. For example, if you hold down a note and then play a nearby note, it'll automatically slide to that note, or a hammer-on if the note velocity is fast enough. The articulations can also be triggered by velocity or MIDI keys, or even a controller. Unfortunately, the scripting is a bit too clever for me, so I haven't got the hang of them yet. In the right hands, they can sound very convincing. Fortunately, BiaB already does most of what I need, but it's always nice to have another tool in your arsenal. Plus, they're fun to play!
Last edited by dcuny; 07/29/18 10:11 AM. Reason: Fixed missing space, comment on VSTis.
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David..I think this is a real good backdrop for you to pop in a lyrical thought when the right one comes along. I really like the overall feel, and the 'arrangement' is fine for now--if it were me, I would just set it aside...I'd be 100% confident that, with the concept stuck in my mind, I'd encounter an "a-ha!" moment that would lead me to a solid lyrical storyline. I also like the half-step/diminished thingee that you used--takes the listener temporarily out of a comfortable/familiar set of changes for this style of music...that's good!
Try the godfather of psalmody...maybe he's got some stuff you can use!
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David..I think this is a real good backdrop for you to pop in a lyrical thought when the right one comes along. Thanks! I think I was unclear actually got an entirely different backing track I've been struggling with. This is entirely built just to play around with the MIDI guitar, and practice mixing. I'm going to call this done, and move on. In retrospect, the other thing this song showed me was that I focused too much to writing something that stayed in a narrow vocal range, instead of really taking advantage of the guitar's unique capabilities. In the future, I'll try to focus on being more idiomatic to the instrument. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it! As for Mr. Watts, he's got plenty of excellent people who have set his stuff (yourself included). But thanks for the suggestion.
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David,
I really enjoyed the feeling of this instrumental- its fine as is, but I hope that feeling leads to words one day!
Very interesting lead guitar ( and explanation of how you created it).
Robert
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Hello, David
I think your aiming for a sort of "Ventures" sound without the surf is successfully done.
I loved the Ventures very much in my childhood.
And I remember the Ventures used dim7 chords sometimes.
I also often use dim7 chords in my songs.
But I just use them very carefully because they are not so often used in the pops of the present era.
I think that it was very difficult to make a natural guitar sound with MIDI guitar.
Enjoyed my listen a lot.
Best regards.
Shigeki Adachi
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Nice work on this, David I saw some people criticizing it for being too heavily layered, but I personally liked it. It gave it a lush sort of feeling, to me personally. It's got a great groove too, and the RealTracks selection is superb. Each instrument compliments the other wonderfully. Great job, and thanks for sharing!
Last edited by Deryk - PG Music; 07/30/18 03:45 AM.
Cheers,
Deryk
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