I am in the process of deciding what DAW I will change to. I like RB, but there are some things that happen repeatedly and they are annoying. Plus, I have found a few things that other DAWs have that RB doesn't.
I noticed a couple of people use Mixcraft. If you have time, would you answer a few questions for me?
Any particular reason you went with Mixcraft? What did you compare it to?
There’s a lot of info here in past discussions about DAWs. I have always thought that RealBand shouldn’t be included. It has DAW functions, sure, but as the only DAW that reads BIAB files it has unique features. Thus even if you use RealBand along with BIAB, you should also learn a more traditional DAW if you want to get serious.
Ok, so which one?
I’ve tried many and used several in studios. Most have free demos. Most have similar features. The way they implement the features, and even what they call them, is what you have to evaluate.
For decades I used Cakewalk Pro Audio, which became SONAR. Now the essence of this is the free BandLab. Before we knew SONAR would be ‘saved’ I tried Reaper, Cubase, and others. The one I found easiest to transfer to was Mixcraft. I also liked that it had a good iPad app. Had I not been proficient in SONAR, I’m sure a different DAW could have seemed more sensible.
Note that I primarily use a PC for pro audio. I only used the Mac for notation software in the early 90s. Had I stayed on Mac, I would have spent more time on Pro Tools, which is used in the studios I go to. Once the PC caught up to the Mac, I had no need for one except to support others in the family who use one.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
2b, you have several threads going and most mention RB. I may have missed some things but you kept talking about things like you can't get VST's to load and other issues. I just revisited your thread in the RB forum concerning that VST issue and it ended on 10/28 with no further input from you saying if you figured that out or not.
Now you're asking about other DAW's and making comments about other DAW's doing things RB can't. Respectfully, you don't know enough to make that statement. You also also seem confused by some basic Windows operations. Obviously I could be wrong, this is just a forum and I'm not a mind reader but you need to be very proficient with Windows before you go jumping into something as complex as digital audio. You need to be the guy friends and relatives come to with their Window's problems.
As an outside observer my advice is to settle down and learn what you have which is Biab and RB. There are people here who have used Power Tracks and then RB for years and never use another DAW. Despite what some here will say, RB is a perfectly competent DAW. I'll repeat that Real Band is as much a DAW as any other name you've read about. Stay with it and learn it before flying around from one thing to another. VST's work perfectly well in RB, you just can't seem to understand instructions and I think I know why, it's because of the tech jargon. That cannot be avoided because a DAW is replicating what goes on in a real multi million dollar recording studio. Like every other specialty out there, studios have their own language. Earlier in your computer using experience were you confused by printer jargon like Landscape, Portrait, a Print Cue and stuff like that? It's because your computer print function is using the terms used by professional print shops. Exactly the same things as a DAW using the jargon of studios. You have to learn those terms and understand them. Trying to just jump in and make it work without that basic background is just crusin for a brusin, ya know?
This stuff takes time and patience, I know you probably don't believe me but you have more tools right now than you can learn in the next year. Or two. Or three. It's all there right in front of you with Real Band. The basic principles are the same from one DAW to another. If you can't figure out RB then good luck with the others too. RB is known as one of the easier ones to learn for a nooby.
Please understand I'm not talking down or making fun or any of that. 15 years ago I was in the exact same position. I knew less than squat about any of this and was a total lost soul but I gradually got it. It's like anything else it's easy once you know it, haha.
There’s a lot of info here in past discussions about DAWs. I have always thought that RealBand shouldn’t be included. It has DAW functions, sure, but as the only DAW that reads BIAB files it has unique features. Thus even if you use RealBand along with BIAB, you should also learn a more traditional DAW if you want to get serious. I’ve tried many and used several in studios. Most have free demos. Most have similar features. The way they implement the features, and even what they call them, is what you have to evaluate.
OP....note all of the above.
Take your time...check all the free demos to determine application intuitiveness and if the GUI is appealing. All DAW apps have their place and one's choice is very subjective. What's easy and intuitive for me may ugly and cumbersome for someone else. Then....learn the program of your choice and know it will require some effort and patience if you're totally unfamiliar with DAW software.
I grew up with Sonar (Sonar X3 now) since 1994 so I've long ago found what's worked for me and at 71 I'm done upgrading. Yes....I would recommend Sonar (now totally free) from Bandlab. But, that's just me.
Realband was my first DAW. I'll forever be grateful for it and the folks here because I knew zilch about computer recording. I moved to Tracktion so I could get their plugins (it doesn't come with those same ones anymore) and then tried a couple of others before I settled on Reaper.
Take advantage of the free trials and do a song from start to finish with each one then decide what's most comfortable for you. There's a learning curve with all of them. And each of us have our own workflows. I think Dani Lindroos uses Mixcraft and so does Alex Rand so you might shoot them a pm.
Over the years I have played with a number of DAWs. I have used cut down versions of Cubase (Cubasis it was back then) CM Magazines DAW, Plazma, Music Maker, Sonar Producer et al. I have had several looks at Ableton but it is not for me. When the Cakewalk carfuffle hit last year I downloaded Reaper. Within two days I purchased a license.
I use BIAB to generate the song, I might use RealBand to make some adjustments to RealTracks, I might go to Sonar to edit or create MIDI parts (then render them to audio), I pull the audio into Reaper. Why this way, RealBand helps regenerating bits of Realtracks but I am more used to mixing in Reaper. Sonar has better MIDI editing in my opinion but I’m more used to Sonar. When it comes to slicing cut and pasting audio bits Reaper does this better and easier. Setting things such as slowing endings or whatever Reaper is far simpler than elsewhere IMHO. Once I learnt how to set up mixes I found Reaper easier and more flexible than Sonar.
Yep it took some learning and some of the stuff I learnt in Reaper can be applied to Sonar, which has help Sonar for me. Same can be said for BIAB. As I learn more, things change for me but essentially the learning for me is as much fun as creating. I still spend a couple of hours a day researching plugins and better methods for doing things but I’m lucky, I’m not on any deadline. At my age to get out and playing at all is a blessing. Making the tracks sound as I want them a joy. I believe there is not one product that does it all, neither am I looking for such a product but I embrace each for what they deliver and the knowledge they bring me. (I had a wise man once say to me “knowledge may be hard to acquire, but once you have it, it is easy to carry.”)
My thoughts Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
I appreciate your perspective. A couple of thoughts:
I concede that some of the computer terminology is unfamiliar. At the same time, I don't think I am the only one who has trouble with RB.
I don't mind the time to learn RB. I agree with you that I should stick with one DAW and learn it fully. I would like that DAW to be RB, and I have put a lot of time into it. I like the interface, particularly because I have trouble reading things on the dark backgrounds some of the other DAWs seem to favor. The RB buttons are laid out well and I can usually find things.
My problem with RB is that there are a few things which seem to happen every session that are just too annoying. Examples:
I click on Edit and RB decides it is time to Initialize the Accompaniment Function. I have no idea why. If it has to do that before it can edit, why doesn't it happen as the program is loading? After it finishes, none of the functions work until I hit the Escape key repeatedly.
When I am editing RT's in RB, the arrow keys don't work for the transport function until I go to the bottom of the screen and hit the rewind key. Then they work again.
My RB crashes on a regular basis. Last night I was trying to generate an RT in RB so I could choose different sections and make a comp track. I clicked on the command. First thing was that I got two screens showing RT's, one over the other. I thought this was nothing so I chose an RT. My computer froze. Escape, escape. Tried again. Got an RT with exactly the same tempo, but it was obviously messed up. Dissonance, odd chords, tempo out of sync. I deleted it, erased the track and tried again. RB locked up my computer and I had to restart.
As far as VST's, I have tried several that should work with RB and jbridge (which I have). Sample Tank 3 won't work. Kent from PG had to take control of my computer to get APL Bass to work. Jamstix won't work. I couldn't get the free version of SSD5 to work. I like to work with midi so this is important to me.
As far as my computer, I have a laptop with 6gb RAM. It runs at 2.6ghz. BB works fine on it. This is my second installation and I try to keep it updated.
In the past, I have suggested that PG should consider improving RB and charging a little more for it. Perhaps a Lite version could be bundled with BB, with a better one available for an additional charge. But either way, the problems I have detailed above make the experience a bit less fun. That's why I am looking.
One last point. I appreciate your response Jazzmammal. I take no offense and I know you are just trying to help.
Regarding RealBand, there are some steps you can take that will let the program work better. Some you may already know but I haven't seen them mentioned in other threads so the ideas maybe new to you.
RealBand (RB) handles RealTracks differently than Band-in-a-Box (BiaB). BiaB generates the first few seconds of the RealTracks in a song project then begins playback. The rest of each RealTracks is generated as a background task while the song project continues to be played. RB will not start until all of each RealTracks is generated so the time that it takes for playback to begin is much longer when compared to BiaB.
RB stores audio edits in memory. Each audio edit is treated as a separate audio file so the more you edit, the more audio files RB has to manage and the higher the probability the program will glitch or crash. Two ways to reduce the probability of a glitch or crash are to: 1) frequently save your work, once every five to ten minutes doesn't hurt and 2) use the Consolidate Audio feature. This description is from page 236 of the RB Users Manual and explains how the feature works.
Quote:
Use the Consolidate Audio Region feature when you are working with WAV (digital audio) files to recreate a track or region as one contiguous file. While not always necessary, this is especially useful in situations where you have performed many edits (e.g., Cut/Copy/Paste) and the resulting track has been broken up into many smaller wave “chunks” that may cause audio glitches and/or timing errors as your computer has to work harder to open and close the many small files. The “consolidate” feature effectively serves to “stitch together” these smaller files into one big file. The non-real time audio effects work better with consolidated tracks, if these effects are returning error messages the problem is often corrected by applying this feature. This command will offer the option to include silence when consolidating from the start of the song and tracks(s) don't start at the very beginning
Frequently following these two steps greatly reduced crashes for me. I believe they will for you too.
My first DAW was Power Tracks by PG Music. Maybe it was version 6 or 7. I don't remember. The main thing I liked most was the Fly-By Hints. These helped my learning curve greatly. Along the way I updated to version 10. Although the program is considered limited compared to other DAWs its the simplicity of it that helped me get a good understanding of the basic process and terminology. I tend to take recording breaks for many months or even a year here and there as I get involved with live music projects. Then I get back to recording. A few years ago I started doing more recording and found PT wasn't cutting it for me. I was ready for more. I tried Sonar LE, Traktion, n-Track Studio, Music Creator 7, Cakewalk and Reaper. I stuck with Reaper. Some of my favorite things about Reaper. (in no specific order) * Kenny Gioia videos are very simple for me to find and grasp a task I want to attempt. Usually 10 - 15 minutes or less on any one task and I've got it learnt. * Stable as an old oak tree. I have never, ever, ever had a lock up or crash that was a fault of Reaper itself. Overtaxed my RAM a couple of times though. That was my fault. * It comes with very good and extensive plugins. * Each and every plugin, including mostly free third party plugins, have worked with no issues at all. (I stick with VST, VST3, VSTi, DX and DXi. I do not install RTAS or AAX versions) * The screen is easy to see and throwing random colors on the tracks improves this even further. * $60 * Has a professional appearance so when friends/musicians come over they are impressed. * So far it has been able to accomplish every audio task and even some video tasks I want. * Many keyboard short-cut save time once learned. * Easy, built in file directory cleaner. (as long as I have my project properly set up to save orderly into a project folder) * The Reaper forum itself is rather helpful and friendly but I don't use it often because most of the answers I need I find in a Kenny Gioia video.
Thanks for the tips, Jim. I do both of these things and I still get crashes.
Yesterday was another example things that shouldn't happen. I tried to use the Time Stretch feature. First it told me that I was going to run into existing data, so I shortened the percentage of stretch. Again, same message. So I shortened again and proceeded. It did the stretch but it left a gap, even though it had told me there wasn't room. The yellow box never went away. And the program locked up. And to top it off, crash. This feature has never worked for me without a problem.
I'm pretty sure I am moving to Reaper. I wanted to finish this project before making the change, but I don't think I can.
Thanks to all who have posted. I echo the comments about this group. You folks are great.
2bsolo Your experience is same as mine. I worked with RB for a longtime and I still do, but for me it is get in and get out as soon as possible. Reaper on the other hand is a joy to work in. Primarily given that on my system it is and has been for years Rock-Solid. Can count on one hand the number of times it has crushed over these years. Add to that the Reaper Forum and many videos to view when you what to learn a new feature. And with Reaper there is always something new with constant upgrades. I know it is a sensitive issue to step into this forum and advise folks not to use RB as your DAW, but as we see here often, there is no shortage of good intentioned opinions.
I finished an album of 8 songs in RB a few months ago. Some all audio, some audio and midi and one all midi. Zero crashes. Zero. For midi I used SampleTank 3. When I picked it up about 18 months ago it simply loaded right up. Zero issues. These songs all have vocals. I created several vocal comp tracks and edited the crap out of them. Zero crashes.
Do you guys who can't seem to get RB to work see a pattern here? I hate to be blunt but somebody can't read proper English. Seriously. The way RB works is described in detail all over the place. The Initialize Accompaniment function is well explained. It was the result of USER REQUESTS. If you're only working with midi you don't need it so we didn't want RB to automatically initialize that on boot up so it doesn't do it until it's needed. This is not a problem it's a FEATURE. Jeese Louise guys. Read, read and read some more.
AND why isn't all the talk about RB in the RB FORUM? There is a dedicated forum for RB ya know.
All the instructions for ST3 for example are on IKM's website along with RB's help files along with a ton of threads from the last few years right here. Doesn't anybody understand Forum Search or Google Search? Both will pull up all the different threads about installing VST's and ST3 in particular.
I swear, I'm just shaking my head here. RB does NOT CRASH, has NO PROBLEM with VST's. Oh yeah, I have Jamstix too, Garritan, several freebie VST's. NO PROBLEM.
I swear, I'm just shaking my head here. RB does NOT CRASH, has NO PROBLEM with VST's. Oh yeah, I have Jamstix too, Garritan, several freebie VST's. NO PROBLEM.
Dudes, I've said this before. Contrary comments that imply there's something inherently wrong with the program need to be based on FACTS. Of course anybody can have any opinion they want no matter how stupid it is but in a discussion like this give me the facts please.
If there's a problem you post it in DETAIL so others can replicate it. Probably 95% of all these so called issues are user errors because nobody else can replicate it. It if is truly a bug PG will look into it and issue a patch for it. An example of that was the VST tempo lock issue. That was supposed to work for years and didn't until a couple years ago. In case you guys think I'm just a fan boy every year when the testing started my very first post in the RB test forum was "Have you fixed the tempo lock issue yet?" That was a bug.
Having issues in loading VST's is not a bug and saying the program crashes all the time is not a bug either because others do not have that issue and it doesn't crash for anybody else other than once in a great while. If you're getting more than the occasional random crash it's you, period. You should post EXACTLY what you did to create that crash and let all of us try to replicate it.
Now, what's the definition of a bug? A bug is something that is supposed to work a certain way according to the documentation and does not. If something is not in the documentation and you're having fun going off the reservation with stuff that PG doesn't recommend and you get crashes then that's on you. If you WISHED something worked a different way, fine request it but it's not a bug.
Thanks for the tips, Jim. I do both of these things and I still get crashes.
Yesterday was another example things that shouldn't happen. I tried to use the Time Stretch feature. First it told me that I was going to run into existing data, so I shortened the percentage of stretch. Again, same message. So I shortened again and proceeded. It did the stretch but it left a gap, even though it had told me there wasn't room. The yellow box never went away. And the program locked up. And to top it off, crash. This feature has never worked for me without a problem.
This is an example of what I'm talking about. Of course you can do whatever you want and what makes you happy but why haven't you posted these two specific issues in the RB forum? And by posted I mean details like I highlighted track 5, measure 8-12, opened this window, entered that value and hit Enter and it caused the crash. Without getting into details when you got that message saying something about "running into existing data" it means exactly that. You set it up wrong so the process is going to wind up overlapping what's already there.
As I said earlier you have a VST thread started in the RB forum but you never finished it. People gave you pretty good instructions but at the end you never responded to say that it worked or it didn't. It sounds like it didn't. Well, don't just drop it, you're still missing something so go back to that thread and keep going with it.
Use some logic David. It works on everybody's Windows machine. When it doesn't it means the machine is not stock, the person is using some old funky interface with a 10 year old driver or it's simply user error based on not following the proper steps. Trust me the testers do not find that many bugs and if all their setups were producing these problems everybody would know about it.
Just ask yourself this question: Where are the hundreds of angry posts from new users who want refunds? All we see are just a few from folks who never post specifics, they just say they can't make something work.
I'm glad you have had no trouble with RB. I wish I could say the same. As for you being frustrated with me and others asking questions and pointing things out, I don't know what to tell you. If you said that I'm ignorant, I would agree, even though I am trying improve. But the other people who have had problems sound like they know what they are doing.
As far as replicating the problems, I wasn't doing anything unusual. I clicked on the command, followed the prompts and had trouble.
As far as finishing the VST thread, a few days ago I posted that I finally got something to work and that I was ecstatic. Made offers to hug Jim Fogle and Pipeline.
A thread you may have missed suggested that ST3 might not work as a midi sound engine. At least that's the way I understood it. That's why I didn't go back to it.
Re the time stretch, I said it told me it would overlap but it didn't. It left a gap. And again, it always crashes my computer.
Re the Initialize Accompaniment Function, is it supposed to do this when you hit the Edit command? And is it supposed to do it more than once per session? It does for me.
This thread is here for a reason. I noticed that we have a frequent contributor who uses Mixcraft. I sent him a PM to ask about his experience. He suggested I post the questions in the Off-Topic forum.
Finally, I think PG music created a great thing when they made BB. I appreciate their efforts with RB and the help they have given me. But I can not get it to work consistently for me, even when I read the instructions and follow the prompts. At this point, I hope we can agree to disagree and move on.
@jazzmammal you put users off coming to the forum controlling what they can do, where they can do it. I've seen users come here, you come down on them and they never return. I and other users go out of our way to help anyone no matter how stupid the question may sound or what section it is in. You don't want to put them off from ever coming back. It's all you seem to do these days, maybe you just do it for all the attention, that's what trolls do..... Just feel it from the other person's perspective, don't wait till you leave this world to hit Rewind then Play and watch and experience it all back in HD Surround, experiencing it from the other's perspective as well. This may go over your head now what I say but during the Playback process it won't, you'll get it then. I just have a feeling it's the drink doing it.
Guys, I deleted my prior post. No sense in us all going there. Sometimes Bob, you are spot on with insight and your ability to articulate the complexities of working with electronic music.... and sometimes, well, not so much.
If RB really doesn't CRASH (your word, in CAPS), it would have caught and recovered from that exception that Pipeline posted. Yet there it is... graphic evidence that RB is capable of crashing.
Now, was it caused by a bug in the code?
By your definition, no. Because (unlike us) you've apparently got access to the RB design document.
Without having done root cause analysis, you made some mighty strong claims about RB having "NO" problems with VSTis. This was based on the fact that lots of people used it without problem. But most especially, it worked for you, because you had a "stock" computer (whatever that is) and the "right" drivers (whatever those are).
It reminds me a bit of the guy who argued that Microsoft wouldn't release an update with bugs, and if people encountered problems, it was because the users had messed up, not Microsoft.
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
It ain't happening guys there is no problem with these updates unless you've completely messed with your system on your own.
After a lot of thought I am, albeit reluctantly, making a contribution to this (off-track) thread.
I have no intention of being antagonistic or to challenge anyone's point of view. Everyone is perfectly entitled to share their own opinions.
I am a software programmer and analyst in real-time computer systems with more years experience than I care to remember. Suffice to say, I know a little about software.
A long time ago we were working with another company, developing interfaces to their software. As long as our software performed to their spec's, there was no issue. During our stress testing we quickly determined that if our software made any illegal request, their software crashed. We got them to change their software to recognize that illegal requests were part of real world events. They then handled these correctly. This made their software more robust.
Because one particular VST doesn't cause a program to crash for a user doesn't dictate that the other program is invincible or even slightly robust. A properly managed and structured program needs to correctly handle awry requests, unintelligible interfaces, badly handled message structures, and much more (like an object being placed on the keyboard - yes, it happens).
Programming to handle every possible exception is hard. Harder that just writing the original code. YMMV but mine doesn't. These are just simple facts. No program should crash, even if it is not its fault. If it does, it means it doesn't handle unexpected situations properly, and improvements are required.
Unfortunately I haven't experienced that perfect world yet. I fully believe that programs mentioned here have crashed for some users - not their own fault maybe, outside influence perhaps, but they crash and if they were more robust, they wouldn't.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Since the thread is convoluted, I don't mind making it more so.
OP:
I second all positive comments on Real Band. There are some occasional annoyances in Real Band (small ones) that you will have to get used to until they fix them I guess, but overall it is the most user friendly DAW I have seen and a great place to record audio.
However, if it has gone wonky, there are some files you will have to delete, such as one .ini file and one .cfg file and then restart it so that it can properly configure itself. You would need to call Kent at tech support, tell him what is going on and make sure you are configured properly and also know how to delete certain files in the future to get a fresh config. Ask Kent about that and take notes. Also have a notepad handy to ask any other things you are confused about. After letting Kent help me get set up properly and explain a few things I never had another problem. That was 4 years ago.
Real Band is still my main RECORDING DAW although I mix in Sonar 2018 (Bandlab) and am expert user of Sonar. I find Sonar is very easy, but it does take patience at first to get the gist of it. It takes work, and you have to to read the manual as they say. But once you do "get it"--it is very, very easy.
Reaper is also cool. I have that as well. But in my opinion (and everyone has his or her own tastes) it is less intuitive than Sonar and for me the learning curve on Reaper is actually steeper than Sonar.
On Sonar, if you want an effect on a track you hit the plus sign for insert/add effect. Then you choose from your VST list.
If you want a new stereo bus for instruments or vocals, you click insert new bus. If you want a new synth, go to top menu and select insert soft synth. It just does it. No need to configure anymore. Just play.
If you want to send a track to an effect on a bus (like send the instrument bed or instrument bus to Waves Vocal Rider for analysis as a "sidechain") you right click on the instrument track and hit "insert send" and choose vocal rider from the drop down menu.
Piece of cake.
(Creating "buses" and sends for groups of instruments, especially to create a separate bus/bed for instruments and vocals, and creating "sidechains" are two of the most common areas of knowledge needed for mixing. In the case I described for vocal rider, the sidechain send I described allows vocal rider to analyze the volume of the instruments coming through the instrument bus so it can adjust the volume of the vocals and create an automatic fader, hence "vocal rider" during mixdown. All of these elementary but necessary skills in understanding and applying terms and techniques within a DAW require a phenomenal amount of time reading manuals or talking to people who use these DAWS and who can show you how. Or you can take a class.)
As others have said, it takes a while to learn what all of these terms mean and you have to master their definitions, study what you can, ask questions when you can't figure it out.
BUT, it takes an enormous amount of time to figure it all out, even for the most computer literate so don't get frustrated.
You simply have to make a decision on what you are going to learn and prepare for a long haul and dig in.
For me, again, what I did was:
1.) Make sure I had Real Band properly set up. (Kent had to help me.)
2.) Mastered Real Band.
3.) Began to study and master Sonar after I had mastered Real Band.
It took years.
That was my path. There are many others.
All of them take countless hours of study.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
2bsolo Your experience is same as mine. I worked with RB for a longtime and I still do, but for me it is get in and get out as soon as possible. Reaper on the other hand is a joy to work in. Primarily given that on my system it is and has been for years Rock-Solid.
Same experience here. I've tried RB many times, but it's so unstable in my system that I can't barely use it.
Mixcraft has a fairly tight integration with video, and a pretty cool notation editor. But the only way for you to decide is to try them both. One will feel more natural. Pick that one. Marry it. Learn it.
I can't believe how some just don't get what I'm trying to say. Here it is again and it's to you Pipeline.
You keep posting error boxes and crashes yet you never explain exactly what you did to cause that to happen. With all your experience and knowledge and I do admire you for that, haven't you ever been a beta tester for anybody? Don't you know the protocols for reporting stuff like that?
To the comment about me saying people who like to mess with or "customize" their systems with registry hacks and the like also tend to be the ones who have the most problems. That came up in a thread some months ago and Deryk I think it was confirmed that in the thread. As staff, he's trying to be diplomatic but he said basically the same thing. They have to try and diagnose a problem when they're not dealing with a stock Windows system.
2bsolo, why not start a thread in the RB forum about the time stretch? You're thinking RB is messed up, I'm thinking you simply missed a step.
For now, I'll just focus on your issues with Sampletank and you thinking because a few people, again a few not dozens, have said they can't get it to work either which makes you think there must be some problems with using it with PG products.
Yes, it's tricky but that's just digital audio so here's some basic info for you and maybe you already know this or not, I don't know. Start with your OS. Everybody who's using Win 10 is running a 64 bit system. Thousands of programs are 32 bit including Biab/RB. That's no problem, 32 bit programs will run fine on a 64 bit OS. However, speaking specifically of audio DAW's now, a 32 bit host like Biab/RB will not natively run a 64 bit plugin like ST3. ST2 was 32 bit but ST3 is 64 bit only so you need Jbridge to run it.
That's point one where some run into problems. Simply understanding all the nuances of a 64 bit OS running a 32 bit DAW host using a 64 bit plugin can just go over the heads of some people and they never get it. This goes to my oft repeated comment about needing to be a computer nerd to work with digital audio.
Point two is IKM's authorization system. That alone can cause some folks lots of grief. That and how ST installs, that's tricky by itself and has nothing to do with the host such as Biab/RB.
Point three is the confusion between a DXi and a VST. ST will install both but you need to use the VST version, not the DXi version. And that's another thing, you need to know the difference between a DXi and a VST.
Point four is following Biab/RB Help files to first select a VST correctly and second to set it up as your default synth. Just writing these points out is confusing even me, I'm trying to make sure I've got this right.
This is called welcome to digital audio but just because it's confusing and it's sooo easy to misunderstand something and miss a step still doesn't mean there's something wrong with PG's software. Using VST's including ST works fine, there is no inherent problem with it.
Why do you keep denying us the details of your crashes so we can see for ourselves? I keep asking and you keep avoiding the question. All you do is post jokes. I think that's called deflection.
Am I a satisfied customer? Yes within the parameters of RB doing what the documentation says it can do. Is that enough for you, obviously not and that's totally cool btw. I have no problem with that, all I'm saying is RB works as advertised and PG advertises that it works well with VST's for example which it does.
I have a problem when you're saying to a nooby, forget RB it's crap. Name another DAW that can work with all the thousands of RT/RD's and generate multiple comp tracks of various instruments in the same song. Name me a DAW that has a chord grid that allows you to generate multiple RT's at a time by the bar, by the phrase, by a whole song, AND THEN if that's not enough you can load styles and do it all again! Then change the chord grid and generate more new tracks in the same song just to hear what some chord subs sound like. At each generation you can change the RT's so you can have up to 48 tracks of completely different RT's. Who does that? NOBODY.
And don't talk about Rapid Composer or the new Studio One Chord Track. Those are useful but they are not even on the same planet as what RB can do with Real Tracks. Handling styles and RT/RD's has absolutely nothing to do with traditional DAW functions, all of that is unique to RB yet RB has pretty decent DAW functions including midi and working with VST's in addition to all that. If you're looking at it as a DAW only then sure there are gazillions of other DAW's out there but none can do what RB does.
Am I a satisfied customer? Yes within the parameters of RB doing what the documentation says it can do. Is that enough for you, obviously not and that's totally cool btw. I have no problem with that, all I'm saying is RB works as advertised and PG advertises that it works well with VST's for example which it does.
Bob
I agree and that also is true with BiaB. Use them as intended and you will be fine.
If one is into RTs, audio recording, but using very little MIDI then RB is the way to go. But if you are heavily into MIDI as I am then there are better alternatives out there. However after saying that I always have said that if you do not have a DAW then learn with RB. YMMV
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I am in the process of deciding what DAW I will change to. I like RB, but there are some things that happen repeatedly and they are annoying. Plus, I have found a few things that other DAWs have that RB doesn't.....
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I have a problem when you're saying to a nooby, forget RB it's crap...
If you can name one user that has used RB more than me, put more into making RB better, promoted RB more than anyone else, then I will leave the forum now never to return. Please give me a little respect, you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes but maybe some day soon you will learn.
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
And don't talk about Rapid Composer or the new Studio One Chord Track. Those are useful but they are not even on the same planet as what RB can do with Real Tracks.
If BB/RB can do what RapidComposer can do I will get rid of it.
EDIT: RB is like WinXP it crashes and gets blue screen, can you conceive of a Win7 Win10 RB 64bit that don't crash and don't get blue screen ??? can we aim for that or force ourseleves to stick with XP and run the newer OSs down ?? (all the years and audio apps I have used the only app ever to give Win7 a blue screen "ever" is BB & RB)
All this pushing is bringing out the true reason why you are doing this, what was hidden under the surface. It seems like you want RB to stay just as it is with no improvements unless authorized by you. How do you stop this ? Attack them, drive them away never to return, you don't want to hear constructive criticism and honesty !!! Denialville all over again. It can be very fearful change.
Have you written an article on what the Mac users should do without RB 64bit ? what DAW should they use or are they allowed to even use a DAW, just as your saying 2bSolo must use RB and he is not allowed to use a DAW because if he does then it is contradicting you and it's saying to you that RB is crap and this is totally unacceptable to you, and here we go: Denialville all over again, what is the stage after denial, will you get to it in this lifetime ??
By The Way, 2bSolo. What computer system are you using? Can you give some details about what it is. Example; I open the Control Panel and click on System. It shows me these details. Intel Core i5-3230M CPU 2.60Ghz 8.00 GB Ram 64-bit Etc... I'm trying to stay on your original topic. The computer system you are using might have a bearing on what programs you can or can not use. I'm thinking maybe you get crashes because your system might not be adequate or something. Not enough RAM. Or, maybe you have some software conflicts going on. Or, maybe a virus or something. If this is the problem then you might get similar issues with any DAW you change to. I'd hate to see you go through a change to a different DAW just to have more issues. I know I used to have issues until I removed/uninstalled iTunes. It was a few years ago and I don't remember exactly what it was but it was something frustrating right after I installed iTunes so I figured that was the problem. It took me a few weeks to finally trace my steps back to when the trouble began. I deleted iTunes, restarted and all was back to normal. Maybe you have something like that going on. So, tell us what you are working with there. Also, I noticed someone mention the difference between 32 and 64 bit. A 64 bit machine will run either 64 or 32 bit programs and plug ins. And, a 64 bit DAW program on a 64 bit machine will run 64 bit and 32 bit plug ins. It will run both. But, a 32 bit machine won't run a 64 bit program. A 32 bit program won't run 64 bit plug ins regardless if it is on a 64 bit machine. If you are trying to run 64 bit plug ins on a 32 bit version of RB it's not going to work. jBridge is suppose to remedy this in most cases but I imagine a big plug in like SampleTank might struggle once you start loading its channels with instrument samples. Anyhow, I commend your patience as the PG forum congress attempts to settle their differences.
Tobias, I agree with you about things running in the background. That is why many many times I have said turn off everything running in the background like your anti-stuff. Also in device manager disable your Ethernet card. That way your computer clock is only running your music generating software. This is why my music computer is off-line 99% of the time; the only time it is on line is for updates, both Win 10 and software.
I have a 64 bit, Intel i7, 16 gigs of ram computer and I have had RB crash. However I very rarely use RB so the problem could have been me. Because I rarely use RB I have no desire to determine what caused the crashes. YMMV
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I am going to try and reply to all of these comments.
First, I am not a PG Music basher. Without their products, I would not be able to record my songs the way I hear them. My impression,strictly an impression, is that BB is the primary product and that it gets more attention than RB from the company.
I like many things about RB, particularly the interface.
Jazzmammal is right about getting started with ST3. It is difficult. If hadn't had trouble with other VST's, I wouldn't have brought it up. But I did. I love being able to use RT's. Changing DAWs won't change that. However, I can't record my songs without midi. For that, I need to be able to use VST's. If I can't get them to work consistently with RB, I need something else.
As far as the crashes on Time Stretch, why should I try to recreate it when I am following the prompts? IMO, if you follow the prompts, it should work and the computer shouldn't crash. And you shouldn't have to do special setups or delete files that come with the program. If that's the trick, PG should take those out and do an update.
One thing about the Time Stretch feature: It seems you can stretch the track by dragging it. When I read the instructions for Time Stretch on RB, I don't see that feature. Did I overlook it?
As far as my computer, it is an i5 running Win10. It has 6gb of RAM. Processor speed is 2.6ghz. 64 bit. Works fine on BB. Tobias, I am going to try to find out if something else is causing this. Thanks for the tip.
As far as another DAW crashing: I am starting a song with Reaper. I haven't paid for it yet. I will look for crashes as I do that. So far, it has not balked or crashed once. Other users on this forum have had similar experiences with RB and solved them by moving to Reaper.
Finally, a word to Jazzmammal. I appreciate your perspective and I have told you so. I have asked you if we could just agree to disagree. If you have other comments for me about this issue, would you send me a PM rather than post them to the forum?
2bSolo, your computer looks more than adequate for BIAB, as you say. If you want to be sure, you could download and run the free Geekbench 4 and report your single-core speed here. I'm guessing you will get 3500 or so, and anything above around 2000 is fine (my numbers - not official standards).
For others, I am the one who suggested 2bSolo post his question here, in the Off-topic Forum. We have often had great discussions about non-PG Music software here, including what DAW to use. His question was Mixcraft vs. Reaper. Not RealBand.
I apologize to you, 2bSolo, for all the angst some posters added to this topic and for getting you into this situation. You did nothing to cause it.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
The only reason I started explaining RB is because the reason you started this thread about Mixcraft or Reaper was you were having problems with RB. To me it's logical to look at the underlying reason for a question as well as the question itself.
You'll notice nobody has actually disputed my points.
RB works as advertised. VST's work fine. Time stretch works fine. Midi editing works fine, it's better than some, not as good as others.
Nowhere did I say RB is perfect or cannot be improved. Every piece of software in any field has issues and can be improved. Especially Help files.
The reason I'm posting this rather than using PM is because thousands of potential customers of PGM search about things like this all the time and this thread will pop up. If I wasn't making these points lots of people will think there's something inherently wrong with RB when there is not. Overall it's a killer program.
You'll notice nobody has actually disputed my points.
The reason I, myself can not dispute is because I stopped using RealBand about 3 years ago due to the issues I had. So long ago I don't remember what they were other than frustrating. Therefore, I don't feel qualified to debate it. Meanwhile, I developed a new common workflow. Most often BIAB straight over to Reaper. Basically by-passing the Tourette Syndrom inducing features of RealBand. I watch the forum periodically for consistent claims of RealBand Peace and Happiness Uphoria. Weighing your experience as a veteran user against other novice users has peaked my interest only a little.
I use RB now and again mainly to generate a lot of tracks that I then mix in Cubase. In that sense its a great program, you can enter chords etc generate plenty of realtracks within it.
It has crashed on me many times and when restarting always get that message do you want to use factory or default settings as it crashed last time you used it.
Did I do something wrong, I don't know nor do I have the time to find out. I just know that it can crash often, but I am not going to stop using it for it does things like generating tracks that no other DAW can do, so I will put up with its little quirks for the above reasons.
Another user has so much interest in Realband they actually crated a website to promote it,
He/she got so frustrated with the quirks of the program they left the forum in disgust because they felt that nothing was been done to fix it.
He/she may have returned under a different name, I am not sure, but being a computer savvy person he/she sure knows what they are talking about, so its not a good idea to say that they don't.
BUT in the great scheme of things it doesn't matter, in 10-15 years time most of us won't be around and thinking of RB, its not wroth getting our blood pressure up about.
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
Agree with David and Dan, Bob. For my part, I wanted to love RB, especially since it's included in the hefty cost of BIAB Audiophile (it's worth it!). I continue to use RB, and have produced charted singles with it, but it's problematic. Sorry, it is. The editing features, zoom and panning into the Tracks window are primitive, It's only 32-bit, and though I purchased jBridge, 64-bit plugin performance is not seamless. It doesn't support VST3, which is important for some of the best 3rd party plugins. Although I have a robust PC, there are still occasional lockups and a less frequent crash. The volume node feature doesn't work well. You can't automate subgroup sliders with multiple channels assigned to them. I'm very happy RB works flawlessly on your end. It doesn't here, and other sophisticated users have experienced problems. Now, with the advent of the DAW Plugin for BIAB, my belief is that RB will not be updated, and will remain a so-so, 32-bit, VST1-2 program, which frustrates me, because again, I wanted to love it. I paid for it, I understand it fairly expertly, and I love the analog look of the UI. Again, can you produce a great sounding track with it? Yes. But in my experience, with lots of unnecessary work. Peace.
hi 2b im liking mixcraft a lot lately loving the midi side don't seem to have any noticeable latenecy on midi keyboard controller its a nice dawn I have used sonar to bandlab reaper,samplutude,reason and many more real band was crashing for me a lot 4 years ago so I left it alone for a time going to try it again it would give me a lot of options all dawns work great depends on your work flow I hope things work out for you eric
AMD (TM) 5950 4.9 GHz 16Core Processor 64 bit 32 bits of ram windows 10 pro 64 bit os. sound card Antelope ZenQ guitars Ibanez 2202a 1968 les Paul Custom and Cavin ae 185 Guitar boss Gt-100,GT1000 pedal Yamaha HS8 studio monitors
One factor to consider is the support you can get on Mixcraft and Reaper. I have experience with Mixcraft support and it was excellent. I did not work with Reaper enough to form an opinion on their support. I found the Mixcraft tutorials and forum to be excellent. I did not try them for Reaper.
But keep in mind, lots of folks have one or the other who also have BIAB (and RealBand). This is a helpful forum and a unique place to get support if your questions are about using BIAB together with a DAW. I think, with no real evidence except reading past discussions, that a lot more people here use Reaper.
The brief upsurge to Mixcraft came at the same time that Cakewalk SONAR looked like it was no longer a choice, so some of those users (including me) started learning Mixcraft (and others). Then many of us (including me) went right back to the new incarnation of SONAR in the form of Cakewalk by BandLab. I did like Mixcraft but would advise you more to strongly consider Reaper if for no other reason than the support you can more likely get here when using it with BIAB.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Interesting thread I missed before. My opinion is simple. Choose a REAL DAW that was designed by a software development team specializing in and focused on DAW software! To me RealBand seems more like a proof of concept project that was never fully developed or optimized for real world use. It is impressive for what it does but it simply does not compare with REAL DAWs IMHO.
There are plenty of REAL DAWs to choose from but I chose Reaper. Reaper is an outstanding DAW with plenty of advanced features along with a modern interface. It has never crashed in the 7 years I have used it (RealBand crashes or bogs down almost every time I use it.)
To those who say digital audio is complicated and that you need to spend 15 years to learn it and get it all working properly I'd say maybe that's true with RealBand but not with Reaper! It pretty much worked out of the box when I could barely spell DAW.
And regarding this silly notion that it is the user's fault RealBand crashes because they don't have a "standard" computer, well when other products like Reaper just work that pretty much proves it ain't the user's fault!
Thanks to all of you who responded. I have been out of touch for a few days, so I just saw this.
First, I didn't want to get back into the contentious discussion about the wonders of RB and that something must be wrong with someone who can't get it to work properly and consistently. But since it has resurfaced, let me point out a few things.
1)Most of the people on this thread mention frequent crashing with RB and that was my experience. I used Reaper on the same computer for about 100 hours before I bought it. It never crashed. It still hasn't. I don't turn my wifi off or shut down my antivirus either. It just works.
2) Mr. Gannon has recently published a thread which extols the virtues of using Cakewalk with RB. That could be a signal that PG is going to let RB wither on the vine, and he may not be able to say that because of prior contractual obligations. I am not trying to put words in his mouth but it is something to consider. Most of us would buy BB at the same price without RB, so you could say PG makes no money on RB but they have to support it.
3) RB does some nice things when it works. I bought Reaper but I have opened RB a couple of times to copy and paste by measure number, a function I haven't learned on Reaper yet. I found I was still putting up with crashes and I was thankful I had made the change.
If RB works for you, by all means keep using it. I'm happy for you. At the same time, be happy for those of us who have found something that works better for us.
.....Most of us would buy BB at the same price without RB, so you could say PG makes no money on RB but they have to support it.....
2b
and there's some Mac users asking for RealBand for Mac, I shiver and think they have no idea what they would get themselves into, it damn near killed me the stress it caused ! I tried it on Win10 as I thought that maybe the solution, it was going great, then BANG ! error, I just cried, seriously. The plugin and a good DAW is the future, maybe they will get the plugin more compatible with the save BB.SGU songs with F5 settings ? RealBand forced me to get into ReaTrak Win/Lin/Mac and have not looked back.
Did you read the entire thread? There is lots of mention about the two programs, in context that this is the off-topic forum for PG Music products.
Since you’re new here, I might also mention this thread is not an example of our finest work. If I were still teaching, I’d have at least two weeks of material on the interpersonal dynamics failures of a social media platform, just from this thread. But give us a chance. This is overall a friendly, helpful and knowledgeable group.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Since I started the thread, let me respond. I was frustrated with Real Band and started looking for something. I had the free trials of Mixcraft and Reaper. I recorded with both.
In the end, I chose Reaper because there are so many support videos and it has an active forum. Also, a lot of people on this forum use Reaper. Since I did, I have not regretted the choice.
That doesn't mean you would make the same choice. IMO, the best way to evaluate is to have a piece you want to record. Try it on both DAW's and see which is better for you. Plan to spend several hours over the course of two weeks when you do it.
A couple of dislikes about Reaper: I don't like the non-destructive editing (but a lot of people like it). So I save before I edit and then tell the program to trim content. Also, it piles up files when you are doing punch-ins. Occasionally, you have to manage those.
If you have any other questions, post them. Or you can PM me, but I am not the most experienced user on this forum.
S In the end, I chose Reaper because there are so many support videos and it has an active forum. Also, a lot of people on this forum use Reaper. Since I did, I have not regretted the choice. 2b
Quote:
Reaper ...is a joy to work in. Primarily given that on my system it is and has been for years Rock-Solid. Can count on one hand the number of times it has crushed over these years. Add to that the Reaper Forum and many videos to view when you what to learn a new feature. And with Reaper there is always something new with constant upgrades.
Late to the party as usual. But here is my two cents (sense) worth.
I start many years ago with a clarion 4 track cassette recorder, found a copy of cakewalk home studio on floppy disc. Bought a program called N track studios, it was glitches on my system, upgraded to cakewalk music creator 1, used it a while upgraded to 3, along the same time I used acid pro for a while. Then a regular here suggested a program called Multitrackstudios, I found that to be super stable and simple to get stuff done. Mean while I upgraded to cakewalk MC 5 then sonar 1 and 2 pro. Tinkered with them all a bit. Stayed with MTS for a while. Tried Reaper, found it solid and flexible, but it to me took to much set up and fiddling to cause me to switch. Bought a new interface from Presonus, it came with studio one free. Liked it, so upgraded (note I also owed powertracks, and BiaB) upgraded Studio one once again. Now I find it is the most stable and easiest to use. And by far the most productive for me. I did use RB for about two years creating backing track sets. It is fine but does occasionally crash and freezes for me.
Now on my system I have BiaB, RB, cakewalk by Bandlab, Reaper, and Studio one. My current workflow is Created in BiaB, and slide to Studio one. Once some of the little issues get worked out in the DAW plugin that will be a big part of it.
Point to all this is I have literally tried them all including a couple in Linux, even Cubase. Find one you like that works for you and stay they all make music.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
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Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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