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#526375 - 02/25/19 07:02 PM [RealBand] Skipping and drop outs during recording
Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
2bSolo Offline
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Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
I am starting to have a problem with skipping and drop outs. I have heard that can indicate I have my buffers set incorrectly or that my hard drive is going bad.

What do you folks recommend for buffer size? I need to set it for the least amount of latency while keeping the song from skipping. Any thoughts? Any other factors to consider or other information I need to give you?

Thanks.

2b
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#526376 - 02/25/19 07:17 PM [RealBand] Re: Skipping and drop outs during recording [Re: 2bSolo]
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1382
Kent - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1382
Hi 2bSolo,

In newer computers, running Windows 10, this issue is usually caused by power settings, not audio driver issues.

Can you please check out the power settings I described in this thread (4th reply)?

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=522434#Post522434

If this doesn't do the trick, please let us know, and also provide info about your computer. We'll need to know which model and speed of processor you have, how much RAM, which version of Windows, and whether you're using your computer's built-in sound card, or an audio interface. Also, which version and build of RealBand are you running?

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

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#526403 - 02/26/19 05:55 AM [RealBand] Re: Skipping and drop outs during recording [Re: 2bSolo]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6756
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6756
Check your settings as Kent pointed out.

Increase the buffers a few steps at a time. Reduce the latency as well.

You didn't mention what soundcard/interface you are using or the driver mode it is running.

I've had issues in my laptop mainly, when I run Sonar with BB & RB all at the same time. Sonar grabs ASIO and then BB & RB have to use MME. Of course, MME isn't good with midi & audio in the same project so I get all sorts of wonky things happening.
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#526407 - 02/26/19 06:23 AM [RealBand] Re: Skipping and drop outs during recording [Re: Kent - PG Music]
Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
2bSolo Offline
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Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Thanks to both of you for the reply. And Kent, thanks for the specific directions in the thread. A lot of us don't know some things that others consider common knowledge.

So I went to the settings you mentioned and my hard disk power management was set to 5%. I changed it to 100%.

Should I change it back when I am not recording? Is there a downside for other functions?

I will try this shortly, see what happens and let you know. If this doesn't work, I will get back to you with my computer stats.

One last question: Any guidance on what buffer settings I should generally use for recording?

Thanks again.

2b
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#526410 - 02/26/19 06:39 AM [RealBand] Re: Skipping and drop outs during recording [Re: 2bSolo]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 872
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Online   content
Expert

Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 872
Loc: Cornwall UK
Hi

With buffer sizes the smaller the buffer the less the latency.
So IMO the smaller the better within the confines of not getting stutter and drop outs.
If it stutters, increase it a bit at a time say 50 or so depending who many steps you are prepared to try till it stutters no more , your latency will increase with each step.
As soon as you reach the right compromise stop. At this point I general add a tad more just in case the audio I am currently using in the future is a bit more complex than the test song.
In other words give your self a bit of margin for that odd extra complex audio function.
Just my thoughts
Mike
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#526412 - 02/26/19 06:51 AM [RealBand] Re: Skipping and drop outs during recording [Re: Mike Head]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12966
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12966
Loc: Hamlin NY
In addition to the excellent advice already given be sure to check anything that is running in the background. Things like anti-virus, anti-malware programs etc can cause those kinds of problems. I turn every background running program off and I disable my Ethernet card prior to using any of my music programs. YMMV.
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#526426 - 02/26/19 08:35 AM [RealBand] Re: Skipping and drop outs during recording [Re: 2bSolo]
Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
2bSolo Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Thanks again to all.

The change to my power management settings didn't make a difference.

The track buffer size is 65536. I left that alone.

I changed some other buffer settings. I changed Preload Track Buffer to 1024. ASIO Buffer size is at 512.

Playback was aurally smooth but I could see the counter pausing now and then for part of a second. What I recorded was usually right on the beat. I wonder if the places it was late were the same places the counter was pausing?

When I got about 70 measures into the song, the skipping started. So I punched in from there, thinking maybe the system is trying to keep the earlier parts of the song. That worked for about another 60 measures. It it helps diagnose this, the song is at 130 BPM.

Any suggestions are appreciated. I will also call PG this afternoon. Thanks to all.

2b
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#526456 - 02/26/19 11:52 AM [RealBand] Re: Skipping and drop outs during recording [Re: 2bSolo]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12966
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12966
Loc: Hamlin NY
When I an having drop outs, pausing, or skipping it is my ASIO buffers are set too low. Sometimes 512 is too low so I have to increase it to 1024 or 2048. This is for playback. When recording I set my ASIO buffers as low as I can, sometimes at 48 or 64. Converting MIDI tracks to audio tracks helps in getting such low buffers. Using Studio One Pro it is easy going back and forth between audio and MIDI. Sonar was the same way.

Also note that converting MIDI to audio can also lower your ASIO buffer settings in playback also.
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64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#526474 - 02/26/19 03:37 PM [RealBand] Re: Skipping and drop outs during recording [Re: 2bSolo]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19538
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rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19538
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Originally Posted By: 2bSolo
Thanks again to all.

... So I punched in from there, thinking maybe the system is trying to keep the earlier parts of the song. That worked for about another 60 measures. It it helps diagnose this, the song is at 130 BPM.


In RB the possible issue you mentioned can be tested.
If it is indeed the disk trying to write while reading at the same time, in the Audio Prefs area is a place to change your 'Temp Audio Directory', which is where incoming data gets written. I regularly record 8 tracks at a time without issue.
I usually use a separate drive for writing incoming data so the read drive does less work with less interruption.
Drives can be a bottleneck historically.

Also, try MME even if just temporarily. It may give clues.
Maybe something else is tapping on your ASIO driver and RB is having to share it.
If you were doing anything that needed ASIO, and this makes a difference, it could still be anything from driver issue to the VST(i) that got changed when switching to MME.
You can always very easily switch back but it reveal a clue as a quick test.
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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows & VST DAW Plugin Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows users!!! The latest FREE patch (build 713) and DAW Plugin Update 2.4.5 is available - learn more and download here.

Summary of changes for build 713:
Fixed: Rendered audio files might be silent if mono and 24 bit are selected.
Fixed: Possible crash when rendering to audio at 48.0kHz or 96.0kHz sample rate.
Improved: Better support for localized versions.
Fixed: Importing audio files that were 96 kHz sampling rate would fail.
Fixed: The [More Info...] button in the Artist Browser dialog would launch the wrong web page.
Fixed: Importing an ABCNotation file would not include the key signature.
Fixed: ABC files only opening some chords.
Fixed: Problem storing minor keys.(ampersand).
Fixed: A few artists not displaying properly in Artist Browsers.
Improved: RealDrums Picker information for the 2020 RealDrums has been updated/improved.
Fixed: Some of the RealDrums from the 2020 release did not have drum groove names.
Improved: All of the 2020 MIDI SuperTracks now have memos.
Fixed: Some RealTracks were listed under the incorrect Set# in the RealTracks Picker.
Fixed: _Gentle style from Xtra PAK 4 had an acoustic guitar set to Held mode.
Fixed: Some ska style demos had drum drop outs.
Fixed: Rendered files were not being normalized.
Fixed: Pressing spacebar in the Notation window might launch a web browser instead of starting playback.
Fixed: Practice window | Master Solos | Blues Piano, displays N/A.
Fixed: MusicXML files created by Band-in-a-Box cannot be loaded by Band-in-a-Box if song title contains & (ampersand).
Fixed: Japanese lyrics are garbage text when saving to MusicXML.
Fixed: Various animations (eg. Guitar window notes) would freeze during playback if using MME drivers.
Fixed: With some computers, distorted audio when soloing a track.
Fixed: Changing a custom track label had no option to Undo, and did not prompt user to save song.
Updated: Manual/Help [routine updates]
Fixed: When re-saving a song that has an audio track, the audio track was not copied.
Fixed: Dropping a song file onto Band-in-a-Box did not set the current directory.
Fixed: The RealTracks picker window should remember its location when reopening.
Fixed: The Piano Roll window was opening at the wrong bar location.
Improved: Better quality audio resampling when rendering audio to higher sample rates.
Fixed: Resampler quality setting in ASIO drivers dialog was ignored.
Fixed: Using WAS audio drivers with 24 bit & 48kHz output rate might result in noise.

Summary of Changes for DAW Plugin Update 2.4.5 (Jan 21 2020)
Fixed: Opening Band-in-a-Box song files (.sgu) would fail if the file names and/or paths contained any European language characters (eg. à,è).
Fixed: Message if bbw4 has no valid handle
Fixed: Mute and sync buttons not working properly
Fixed: Clicking cancel would lag before cancelling
Fixed: Right-click anywhere on track for context menu
Fixed: Increase maximum chord sheet font size
Added: Double click track name to launch picker of currently selected track
Added: Flashing GENERATE button to notify if song needs to be regenerated
Added: Mute and sync buttons to track context menu
Added: Right-click chord opens bar settings menu at that bar
Added: Error code for bbw4 related error messages
Fixed: Plugin asking to save when booting the plugin and selecting File/Open
Fixed: Crash when running vst3 plugin in reaper
Fixed: Scroll bar margins when resizing plugin
Fixed: Bar settings not saving
Fixed: Time Base, and Natural Arrangement not saving settings
Fixed: Calling bbw4 when already open will bring windows to front
Fixed: Tool tips in Preferences Dialog
Fixed: Time signature should be set from DAW when first opened
Fixed: Set "..." colours for truncated chords to black
Fixed: Selected track in table should be more obvious
Fixed: Click YES to Save dialog and then cancel will reset save state to true
Added: Right click for track table context menu
Added: Medley/Multi (thickening) feature

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Our Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows version includes some great enhancements to the Built-in Audio Chord Wizard!

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Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Patch Update Available! (Build 643)

Still using Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows? Build 643 is a free update full of updates for version 2019, and includes a VST DAW Plugin update to 1.16.29.

Learn more and download here. | Direct download

Note: this patch is not intended to update your version to the recently released Band-in-a-Box® 2020, which is available for purchase here.

Summary of Changes for Version 2019 Build 643 (Jan 14 2020):
Fixed: Practice window | Master Solos | Blues Piano, displays N/A.
Fixed: The Drop Station would not update if dropping a file onto Presonus Studio One.
Fixed: Possible freeze when importing compressed audio files.
Fixed: Crash with error "external exception C06D007F" while launching if using Windows XP.
Fixed: Access violation in Song Titles browser if no song is selected when clicking [Close].
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash during bootup if there is a problem with font installation (usually after upgrading Windows 7 to Windows 10).
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash during bootup if an ASIO driver was previously selected, and the device is no longer connected to the computer.
Fixed: If an ASIO driver cannot connect during bootup, the default WAS driver should be used instead.
Improved: BootupLog.txt will include more elaborate information when troubleshooting bootup problems. This only applies if WriteBootUpLog.txt is present in the Data folder.
Fixed: RealTracks #2975 (Vocal Oohs-Aahs) sometimes played incorrect chords for m7b5 and C7.
Fixed: Some bars for the B section of RT 2529 were dropping out.
Fixed: Some Bass and Nylon Guitar RealTracks (including 2718, 2724, 2722, 2725, 2719) have RealCharts added.
Fixed: Several Piano and Organ MIDI SuperTracks have been edited to remove spurious MIDI events (e.g. mod wheel sometimes caused 'warbling' effect).
Updated: PDF and help (routine cleanup/updaes).
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash when opening a song that contains note-based lyrics.
Fixed: Lyrics would not display in the Big Lyrics if "Show chord symbols above the lyrics" was enabled.
Fixed: Bar Lyrics and Section Text layers do not line up with bars in Notation window if there are repeats in song, and fake sheet mode is enabled.
Fixed: Possible crash if editing a text layer while using the floating Notation Window.
Fixed: "There is no audio file currently recorded" error message when using Audio > Plugin.
Fixed: If using the 64 bit version of Band-in-a-Box, the BB2Go window would display an erroneous QuickTime version, and converting files to .m4a would fail. QuickTime is only available for the 32 bit version, but is only required if using Windows Vista or earlier.
Fixed: Sforzando might not automatically be added to the VST list, causing Hi-Q patch selection to fail.
Fixed: [Video] > Render Video(s)... menu item should launch the Make Chordsheet Video dialog if Video RealTracks export is not available.
Fixed: When choosing a compressed format for rendering files, and "One file per track" is enabled, the resulting files are .wav format instead of the compressed format.
Fixed: Dragging a single track to export MIDI causes that track to be permanently soloed.
Fixed: The About dialog said 'for Macintosh' instead of 'for Windows'.
Fixed: StylePicker: User Category list wasn't refreshing after choosing a new user category.
Changed: Default the 'include similar styles in the stylepicker' to false each bootup.
Fixed: melodists were getting quantized incorrectly.
Fixed: Rebuilding styles list was causing errors sometimes.
Fixed: Clicking OK in the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup dialog should not close the floating Mixer window.
Fixed: Applying audio effects using Audio > Plugins would fail with error "Plugin cancelled. Original file is preserved".
Fixed: Audio will not import to a custom position if there is already audio on the Audio track.
Fixed: Audio > Edit Audio > Timeshift Audio would crash the program if the Audio Edit window was not open.
Fixed: Close button in Select chorus start/end dialog should behave like Cancel, ie user clicking on bar afterwards shouldn't do anything.
Fixed: Wrong notes on Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Summary of changes for Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin 1.16.29:
Fixed: bounds when highlighting in chord sheet
Fixed: make selected cell at the end after pasting
Fixed: some styles not dragging all tracks from blue button
Fixed: losing focus in chord sheet
Fixed: plugin stops playing non-synced tracks when closing and then opening plugin
Fixed: track text not resizing correctly
Fixed: C#7b5b9b13 to chord sheet
Fixed: Audio stutters when resizing plugin in some DAWs
Fixed: auto gen after open feature not working in Studio One 4
Fixed: Open dialog in infinite loop
Fixed: Alert window buttons "punch hole" when pressed
Fixed: distortion when stopping playback in pro tools
Fixed: Verify folders before each call to Biab
Fixed: Send space bar keystrokes to DAW
Fixed: Added message if attempting to drag tracks before generating
Fixed: Transpose not working
Added: shift-arrows to select in chord sheet
Added: SHIFT-TAB to go backwards in chord sheet, TAB to go forward
Added: SHIFT-ENTER to go backwards in chord sheet
Added: copy selected cell if nothing highlighted
Added: support for all Biab file types

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