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#528483 - 03/12/19 05:34 PM [RealBand] DAW Recommendations
Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 161
Loc: West Virginia
Warren Keller Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 161
Loc: West Virginia
Hi friends, hope all is well! I have a question for other RealBand users. If you were moving to another quality DAW, Which one's UI and methodology do you think would feel the most familiar and comfortable?

I'm considering doing this, but I dread the thought of having to relearn a program from scratch. I've become quite comfortable in RB but it does have a few limitations.

On the other side of the coin, let me say that since uninstalling 2017 and installing 2019, things have been more stable and works better than ever before. This may be due to bug fixes in RB, and/or my having cleaned up the numerous extra synthesizer engines and plugins that came with both BIAB and my audio interface. I'd had numerous crashes and lockups with 2017, problems with features like volume nodes, etc. Now, however, everything is very stable!

A couple of things that bother me about RB, is that although you can group multiple channels to a single subgroup, you cannot record a mixer move on the combined fader, nor, to the best of my knowlege, can you easily automate a whole song fade-out.

Thanks for your time and consideration of this!
_________________________
Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist, Writer, Singer

"I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin'
She is all that I have left and music is her name"

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#528486 - 03/12/19 05:50 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15183
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15183
Loc: Australia
Hi Warren,

I use Reaper. It's great with MIDI and audio and handles all the VSTs/DXs that I need. I also like the free tutorials that are provided by Kenny Giaoa.

http://www.kennymania.com/reaper-videos/

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#528490 - 03/12/19 06:10 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 04/24/16
Posts: 353
Loc: Ireland
Hugh2 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/24/16
Posts: 353
Loc: Ireland
Hi Warren,
Im with Noel on that.I use Reaper and it can take from just doing the basics to super indept and the videos from Kenny G are so good and helpful,H

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#528494 - 03/12/19 06:33 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5201
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Online   happy
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5201
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Warren,

Indications are most people will respond with what they use. It makes sense as the daw they use will be the daw they are most comfortable with. However, what makes a daw a good fit for one person may not make it a good fit for you.

I suggest a different approach; write down the ten most important tasks you want to perform in a daw and then visit sites, read reviews and download demo/trial or free versions to take interesting daws for a test ride.

Generally speaking you'll find three types of daws. One type is those that were developed with strong audio features with MIDI added later on; ProTools is representative of that group. Another type is those developed to sequence MIDI and audio features were added later; Cubase and Cakewalk by BandLab (formerly Sonar) are examples from this group of daws. Last is the type of daw first developed to work with loops or audio chunks; Reason, Ableton Live and Florida Line (sometimes named just FL or Fruit Loops) are examples of this group. Having said that, every modern daw I know of can work with MIDI, audio and loops. But, because of their heritage each may be more feature rich in one area than the other two areas.

Two sites worth visiting are +++ Digital Audio Workstation Wiki Comparison +++ and +++ Digital Audio Editor Comparison +++. The second link in particular has some interesting feature comparison charts.

Another link worth clicking on is +++ THIS +++ web article that describes a method to follow when asking the question, "What Is The Best DAW For Me?" The article offers some good food-for-thought.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 BiaB (632) UltraPlusPak RB 2019 (Build 4)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#528497 - 03/12/19 07:17 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 613
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Teunis Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 613
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Hi Warren, I agree with what Jim has to say but I have another idea for you.

For the past few weeks I have been in Thailand so I don’t have access to my PC. The PG Music site is almost unusable for me here. (All other sites are fine). The frustration had me throwing my arms up in despair.

What am I to do I thought, so I went to the Groove 3 site and spent US$15 to access all for a month. Initially to learn more about Melodyne (but been so busy with other products have not got to Melodyne yet). Now on this site you have access to the explanations and methods of a number of DAWs and an assortment of other stuff. Here you will see the uses and functionality of many DAWs, plugins and various other aspects of music production. Had I gone here some time ago I would have saved a heap of money and time.

I really recommend spending the $15 having a look IMHO this will help you make the best choice for your needs.

Tony
_________________________
HP i7-4770 16GB 512G SSD, Win 10 Home,
Roland Quad Capture, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster + more
BB 2019 (628) RB 2019 (3), CakeWalk by BandLab, Reaper, Audacity, Melodyne

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#528533 - 03/13/19 05:41 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11388
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11388
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Reaper is good and inexpensive (something like $69). Cakewalk by BandLab (which is what used to be the somewhat pricey Sonar Platinum) is free, so at least worth checking out. Acoustica Mixcraft is nice also and not too expensive.

I could never really wrap my head around Cubase or Tracktion (now called Waveform), both of which I have, but that could just be me. Likewise for N-Track. And Multitrack Studio works, but is more basic and I don't care for its more sparse interface.

Just my $0.02 worth, and losing value every day. smile

EDIT: I generally use either Realband or Cakewalk by BandLab. The Sonar interface for me was more comfortable than the others. But as has already been said, to each his own.


Edited by jford (03/13/19 05:44 AM)
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win7Pro64, 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64, 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64, 8GB

UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/BB-RB2019/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
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#528535 - 03/13/19 05:51 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1439
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
sslechta Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1439
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Generally speaking you'll find three types of daws.......

Very well described Jim! I never would have thought of it in that perspective.
_________________________


Steve

BIAB/RB 2018, Pro Tools 2018, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

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#528551 - 03/13/19 07:17 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4716
Loc: South Carolina
RobH Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4716
Loc: South Carolina
I have personally used a ton of them.

For simplicity and robust, stable operation nothing even comes close to multitrackstudios. Yet it works very different from other DAWs. Once you get the flow down it flat out gets it done. The plugins are world class, and the ability to treat both audio and midi the same in a track is really cool. It makes a great companion for BiaB and RB.

Spent a long time with cakewalk products from home studio on floppy disk to Sonar 1 and now I have Bandlab. For free it is solid for sure. There’s a lot there. You can’t go wrong there. I did find since Bandlab took over it had a few things stripped out that Sonar had so you do need more third party stuff to add in than a few others that you pay for. I have read this is why it’s free they don’t have to pay for the licensing formplugins and VSTis.

Also bought Reaper a while back and it is solid as the folks say above. Also has extreme flexibility to route things in many different ways. The only downside to me was how much time I spent trying to set things up. I spent more time fiddling with stuff than completing projects. I did view many video tutorials but it seemed to busy and complex to me. Under the hood.

I have used RB since inception and still love it but always found it shackey at times and certainly missing a few things, but what else creates like it does.

I bought a Presonus interface a few years back and it came with studio one, I upgraded a time or two and now have the latest pro version. I must say for me it is the best for how I think and operated. The chord track, highly skilled comping features, solid simple and useable automation just work best for me. I think it just edges out Bandlab for me in how it works. I also love the ability to render stem files that open in Protools to be a plus.

I have four on my current Laptop, Studio one 4, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reaper, and RB (powertracks also so 5) If I had to pick one to keep I would pick Studio one just because it fits my work flow best and finishes project for me with less issues.
_________________________
Lenovo Win 10 8 gig ram, BiaB, Realband, Studio one Professional, Melodyne, Gibson S-1, Carvin 980 Cobalt acoustic, Ovation legend 12 string, jazz bass clone, Fender Mustang III amp, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface, TC Helicon voiceworks.

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#528574 - 03/13/19 09:02 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 161
Loc: West Virginia
Warren Keller Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/13/17
Posts: 161
Loc: West Virginia
You guys are da' best- thank you so much. Looking at Reaper's interface, despite the stated flexibility, it doesn't look like a virtual mixing board, which is something I value in RealBand, and something I don't think I'd want to lose. Also should have mentioned, I'm currently not doing MIDI yet, just track generation by BIAB/RB, and live recording of saxes and flutes. I've wondered if with the institution of the BIAB DAW plugins, and the fact that RB did not go to 64-bit as did BIAB, if PGM isn't going to develop RB much more. Honestly, as I've stated, 2019 is really stable for me now. If I had the fader abilities I mentioned in the original post, and a bit easier editing (still find zooming in, scrolling down in Tracks [and the editing window] a bit wonky), I think I'd be satisfied to stay. Thanks again everyone!
_________________________
Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist, Writer, Singer

"I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin'
She is all that I have left and music is her name"

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#528592 - 03/13/19 10:17 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12340
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12340
Loc: Hamlin NY
I use Studio One Pro but asking which DAW should I use is like asking what car should I drive. We all have our preferences.

My advice is to DL the demos of the various DAWs and see which one best fits your workflow. Only you can answer your what DAW question.

I use Studio One Pro because it is extremely easy to drag and drop BiaB files, both MIDI and audio, into it. Also you drag and drop MIDI instruments and audio effects very easily. Recording is a snap also. I find that Studio One Pro fits my workflow perfectly. YMMV.

{edit} - Just remember that there is a learning curve for all pro DAWs.


Edited by MarioD (03/13/19 10:19 AM)
_________________________
If you answer the phone with "Hello, you're on the air" most telemarketers will quickly hang up!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#528651 - 03/13/19 05:00 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
A lot of the answers you have gotten (I did not read them) are likely based more on "because it's free" than actual performance, and having spent the money to buy Pro Tools I recommend it highly. I have yet to be in a legitimate studio, legitimate meaning "one that bands actually pay money to record in" that ran a free DAW. Every one of them had Pro Tools. Now a dozen people are going to pile on and tell me about some studio, ONE studio, that their buddy's barber's cousin's butcher's nephew operates, that uses what they use, and that's fine. Whatever. But you will not go wrong with Pro Tools. Pro Tools costs 200 beers, 85 packs of smokes if you do that, 40 large take out pizzas, or $600.


Edited by eddie1261 (03/13/19 05:02 PM)

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#528656 - 03/13/19 06:29 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 613
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Teunis Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 613
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
See this article on DAWs

https://theproaudiofiles.com/daw-guide/

It has a good look at many. Each DAW has its pros and cons.

Most serious folk have more than DAW and use them for purposes that meet their needs. Pro Tools for example would be the way to go if you’re bouncing from studio to studio. Cakewalk if you’re doing a little home producing and don’t have a lot to spend. Reaper if you want to play and get into how things work. (By the way Reaper has a great mixer panel)

IMHO however it is the extra tools (plugins) you need and how easy they fit into a DAW to suit you’re needs that should drive you’re decision.

My thoughts
Tony
_________________________
HP i7-4770 16GB 512G SSD, Win 10 Home,
Roland Quad Capture, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster + more
BB 2019 (628) RB 2019 (3), CakeWalk by BandLab, Reaper, Audacity, Melodyne

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#528670 - 03/13/19 11:50 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15183
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15183
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Warren Keller
You guys are da' best- thank you so much. Looking at Reaper's interface, despite the stated flexibility, it doesn't look like a virtual mixing board, which is something I value in RealBand, and something I don't think I'd want to lose.

Hi Warren,

CTRL+M opens the mixer window (which has many different display-type options. I wonder if this is what you're after.

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#528698 - 03/14/19 07:51 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5097
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5097
Loc: South Carolina
Robh - <<< For simplicity and robust, stable operation nothing even comes close to multitrack studios.>>>



Multi track, stand alone recorders are the most overlooked, under rated option available to the home recordist. I've found them to also be very cost effective. In my case I own a Soundcraft Signature 22MTK analog mixer that has a 24/22 USB audio interface included. Street price new is $720 (demo) and a list price of $899. I also have a Presonus DP192 8 channel interface and faderport 8 that essentially serves the same purpose. While it can record 26/32 in/out's, it only has 8 preamps. The Faderport 8 only has 8 faders and together the two units retail for $1,400. Additional equipment is required to physically access the additional 18 inputs. The Companion Presonus Digimax DP88 retails for an additional $699. $2,100 total cost for 16 preamp inputs.

The 22MTK has no menus to get to its features. There's 25 faders; 16 preamps; 3 dedicated line stereo inputs; 5 Aux sends; 4 groups; PFL; Two studio quality Fx engines with dedicated returns; 8 channels with on board limiters and two channels with instrument DI's. All at two thirds of the cost I can record 24 inputs without any other interface equipment necessary.


The Presonus unit has to have special, dedicated software to handle latency. The 22MTK has native zero latency. The 22MTK will fully integrate with Presonus Studio One DAW and every other DAW.


I chose the 22MTK because at the time I had need for it as a live mixer also. Similar 8 preamp input units are available by Soundcraft, Zoom and Tascam in the $500 range that work well in home studios.


However, stand alone multitrack recorders by Zoom, Tascam and other manufacturers that may only record two tracks simultaneously are very reasonably priced and very simple to operate and learn.

DAW's are great but in many home use environments are overkill. If your normal song project consists of 12-16 tracks at most, what is the necessity to have unlimited tracks? Hybrid mixers and stand alone units will contain enough Fx's and dynamics at a sufficient quality to record commercial quality projects. It's done every day.

With hybrid mixers and stand alone units, regardless of the price level you choose, one still has complete access to external DAW's and all the features and add-on's they contain. It's literally the best of both worlds without the unnecessary cons of latency, complicated routing, CPU consideration, mobility, limited physical inputs, lack of physical knobs, buttons and faders and the pros of easy learning curve, stability and no computer crashes..
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak+ 2019:RB 2019 Build 3. Dell Inspiron AIO Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, 7th Generation AMD A9-9425 Processor Five Core 3100 Mhz and 16GB DDR4 Memory.

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#528710 - 03/14/19 08:32 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11388
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11388
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:
Robh - <<< For simplicity and robust, stable operation nothing even comes close to multitrack studios.>>>


Charlie -

I could be wrong, but I think he meant "MultiTrack Studio" (MTS) (which I also referenced). It's fine and solid, but has a more sparse interface for working with your audio. But that's just my opinion. I know there are others on the forum here that love it.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win7Pro64, 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64, 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64, 8GB

UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/BB-RB2019/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
http://www.sus4chord.com

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#528726 - 03/14/19 10:11 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7743
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7743
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Use the simplest program that does what you need. Features aren't features if you don't use them.They just get in the way.


Edited by silvertones (03/14/19 10:13 AM)
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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#528754 - 03/14/19 12:32 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: jford]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5097
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5097
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: jford
Quote:
Robh - <<< For simplicity and robust, stable operation nothing even comes close to multitrack studios.>>>


Charlie -

I could be wrong, but I think he meant "MultiTrack Studio" (MTS) (which I also referenced). It's fine and solid, but has a more sparse interface for working with your audio. But that's just my opinion. I know there are others on the forum here that love it.


You're right I'm sure but it made a good segue into my pitch for stand alone's I hope. wink


Edited by Charlie Fogle (03/14/19 12:32 PM)
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak+ 2019:RB 2019 Build 3. Dell Inspiron AIO Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, 7th Generation AMD A9-9425 Processor Five Core 3100 Mhz and 16GB DDR4 Memory.

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#528760 - 03/14/19 12:59 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11388
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11388
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Yep, it was good info.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win7Pro64, 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64, 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64, 8GB

UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/BB-RB2019/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
http://www.sus4chord.com

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#528791 - 03/14/19 05:52 PM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4716
Loc: South Carolina
RobH Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4716
Loc: South Carolina
Great info on stand alone. As far as MTS, It might be sparse but if you really dig in it is pretty detailed under the hood. The thing it does best it treat both audio and midi the same.
_________________________
Lenovo Win 10 8 gig ram, BiaB, Realband, Studio one Professional, Melodyne, Gibson S-1, Carvin 980 Cobalt acoustic, Ovation legend 12 string, jazz bass clone, Fender Mustang III amp, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface, TC Helicon voiceworks.

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#528816 - 03/15/19 06:31 AM [RealBand] Re: DAW Recommendations [Re: Warren Keller]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11388
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11388
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
BTW, I'm not knocking MTS, just feel more comfortable in Sonar/Cakewalk.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win7Pro64, 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64, 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64, 8GB

UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/BB-RB2019/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
http://www.sus4chord.com

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