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#540513 - 06/11/19 02:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums
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DC Ron Offline
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I'd like to substitute MIDI drums for RealDrums on RealTrack styles but can't figure out how. Started with Force Drum Track to MIDI drums but can't load a MIDI drum preset after that. Tried the MIDI Track Picker's Choose from Presets dialogue and it doesn't seem to work. The drum preset just doesn't change. Am sure this is easy, I'm just feeling stupid and...stuck. THANK YOU!

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#540520 - 06/11/19 03:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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Noel96 Offline
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What style are you using? I'll give it a test run.

It might be that that particular style does not have defined MIDI drum set underlying the Realdrums.

Regards,
Noel
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#540548 - 06/12/19 02:28 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: Noel96]
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DC Ron Offline
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Thanks, Noel. The drums ARE forced to MIDI, just can't seem to change styles like this...

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/0sy3cu981yxycmg/BiaB%20MIDI%20drums.JPG?dl=0[/img]

(not sure I'm embedding this image correctly)

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#540566 - 06/12/19 04:46 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Once you force the drums to MIDI, you must select a drum kit (patch)

In testing, I Rt clicked on the drum track and forced the track to midi
Rt click and Select Midi Instrument from the drop down menu;
Rt Click and from the top of the menu selected Hi-Q midi patch plug in

This gave me a great sounding Sforzando VST drum kit.
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#540567 - 06/12/19 04:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: DC Ron
Thanks, Noel. The drums ARE forced to MIDI, just can't seem to change styles like this...



Note in your photo that Acoustic Piano is the patch selected - There are no drums listed in the patch drop down menu - Follow the process outlined above and you should get the drum track working.
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#540574 - 06/12/19 05:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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DC Ron Offline
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Thank you, Charlie. I am SO BAD at explaining, but let me try again...

MIDI drums play fine when I force to MIDI. And I can change drum kit patches no problem. What I can't do is change to the drum preset/patterns shown in the lower right corner of the screenshot and have the drumming pattern change.

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#540594 - 06/12/19 07:18 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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I see what you're saying. I experience the same thing. I can force the drums to midi, select a kit and the drum track plays a pattern. But regardless of what kit from another style, the same pattern plays. If I change a drum kit from standard rock kit to a Brushes kit, I have to also change the patch but again, it plays the same pattern over my chord chart.
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#540614 - 06/12/19 09:43 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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DC Ron Offline
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Thanks for verifying my issue! Can't help but think there's a way to do this...

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#540802 - 06/13/19 04:37 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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DC Ron Offline
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Anyone had success at inserting MIDI drums? Thx!

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#540834 - 06/13/19 09:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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jazzmammal Offline
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Ask yourself this question Ron. What's the source of the midi drum data when the style is using a Real Drum track which is audio? There is no midi data written therefore nothing for a midi drum kit to play unless your RD track was recorded on a midi drum kit and the audio was generated from a drum synth.

Audition midi styles similar to the RT style you want. Ignore the instrument tracks, listen to drums only. Once you find a midi drum part you like, you can sub all the midi instrument tracks from the original RT style.

Bob
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#540909 - 06/14/19 06:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: jazzmammal]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Ask yourself this question Ron. What's the source of the midi drum data when the style is using a Real Drum track which is audio? There is no midi data written therefore nothing for a midi drum kit to play unless your RD track was recorded on a midi drum kit and the audio was generated from a drum synth.

Audition midi styles similar to the RT style you want. Ignore the instrument tracks, listen to drums only. Once you find a midi drum part you like, you can sub all the midi instrument tracks from the original RT style.

Bob


What I experienced Bob is that after I removed the RealDrums and once the midi drums played a midi pattern, changing styles changed the drum kit but not the pattern.
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#540929 - 06/14/19 09:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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jazzmammal Offline
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We're talking about starting with a Real Style. Real Styles are not styles at all, there are no specific bass lines, guitar riffs or anything written out to create the style. They are simply a group of RT's that sound good together so they are called a Real Style. Compare that with a midi style where all the parts are written out and can create a midi file. There the drums were recorded using a midi drum kit. Since so many users don't use high end midi synths midi drums sound thin and weak which is why the first control we got was a checkbox to automatically sub a Real Drum part for the midi drums. There is no checkbox to sub a midi drum part for a RD as part of a Real Style. Therefore if you want midi drums you have to start with a midi style then you can sub the other instruments with any RT's you want.

Bob
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#540978 - 06/14/19 11:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< We're talking about starting with a Real Style. >>>

Yes.


<<< There is no checkbox to sub a midi drum part for a RD as part of a Real Style. >>>


Yes there is. Rt click and select 'Force Drums Track to MIDI drums'
The track color turns to yellow and the Instrument to 1 standard drum kit.
On my system, at this point the sound generated is a bass guitar sound.

To get drums to play, I have to assign a Plug in

I select Plug Ins and Select Coyote WT
Hit Generate and Play and I have drums playing.


The issue then becomes if I'm not satisfied with that drum style pattern, opening the drop down menu and select 'Select a Custom Midi style for this track' (current track drums), selecting a style or preset from this menu does not change the drum pattern.
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#540989 - 06/14/19 01:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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DC Ron Offline
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My issue in the original post is a bit different:

1. I can force to MIDI drums and an appropriate MIDI drum will play on the standard MIDI drum patch.
2. When I try to select another MIDI drum preset, it LOOKS like the new preset loads (in this case dogsamba).

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/umphvxq3gi1r61q/BiaB%20MIDI%20drums%202.JPG?dl=0[/img]

3. But the drum pattern that plays is the same one from 1. above, not a samba.

Really appreciate the time of all who have pitched in so far...THANK YOU!

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#540998 - 06/14/19 02:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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jazzmammal Offline
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This is what I get from posting from a friends house and not when I'm home on my system to test what I just wrote, haha.

Guess what, I just found a new feature. Apparently there is a midi drum part associated with "most" Real Styles. Here's what I just did. I selected 4 styles, two funky, one country and one rock. After selecting the style I first played it to make sure the Real Drums are playing as they should. Then I right clicked on the "Drums" instrument header at the top and down the list is "force Drums track to MIDI drums". Hit play and there is a midi drum pattern that is in the style of the RT style. Funk is funk, rock is rock but no midi drums for the country style. Until I try maybe a hundred styles, this appears to be a style by style thing. Some have this but others don't. This means what I wrote above is partially correct.

DC Ron, here's what you originally wrote:

Quote:
I'd like to substitute MIDI drums for RealDrums on RealTrack styles but can't figure out how. Started with Force Drum Track to MIDI drums but can't load a MIDI drum preset after that.


IF you've selected an RT style with an optional (by forcing MIDI drums) associated midi drum pattern then you don't have to do anything, the pattern should play. If you want to change the drum pattern but keep the rest of the real tracks then you have to either select another RT style and see if there's a better midi pattern linked up to it or do what I wrote earlier and reverse this process. You start with all midi styles until you find the drums you like THEN you can replace all the midi instrument tracks with original RT style tracks.

Now, slightly off topic, this kind of experimentation is WAY easier in Real Band. Check it out.

Bob
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#541003 - 06/14/19 02:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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DC Ron Offline
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Bob, thanks for the very thoughtful reply.

Last night I tried your approach of auditioning multiple MIDI styles with MIDI drums and then inserting real tracks for the other instruments and it does work.

But it's not optimal. What I'm trying to do is improve the mix on some existing songs written with RealStyles by forcing to MIDI drums, and then auditioning MIDI drum presets until I find one that I like. If I understand your instructions, this can't be done. This seems odd for a program that started out 100% MIDI (I was there!), but certainly matches my recent experience.

So I can start with my RealStyles-based song, write down the #'s of the RealTracks used, then go to the StylePicker and filter for MIDI only. Once I find a MIDI-only RealStyle I like the drums on, I load it. Then I can load the RealTracks I wrote down. Doable, BUT probably a bit too tedious to be useful for what I'm trying to do.

About every other year I'll open up Real Band and experiment with it. Did it last night, in fact. Looks like it has improved in many ways, including appearance, since I last tried to earnestly use it to make music. May try it again. Don't know if I'm ready to climb another learning curve based on past experiences, but I'll think it over. smile

THANK YOU, again.

Ron

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#541009 - 06/14/19 03:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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jazzmammal (Bob),

I'm not surprised by your findings. My understanding is, especially in the beginning, many RealStyles are one off variations of midi styles.

One easy way to tell is to load a RealStyle into an empty RealBand project. If you have RealBand preferences set to default so the first 8 tracks are BB tracks. If both the BB tracks load midi and the RealTracks load audio the RealStyle began life as a midi style.
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#541016 - 06/14/19 04:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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jazzmammal Offline
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Ron, are you aware you can audition styles by double clicking on them in the Stylepicker window?

Your point about not being able to audition individual midi instruments is a good one. I've been requesting that for years. Unfortunately all the midi instruments are packed into a style and the only way to hear them is to audition the style.

And, yes RB is still better for what you're trying to do. You still can't audition individual midi instruments there either BUT you can make a whole bunch of midi or RD drum comp tracks. You can also open up your original Real Tracks song done with that RT style you like and it will sit there undisturbed in the first 8 Biab tracks while you audition and generate whatever other things you may want. Just check the box to make all Biab tracks regular tracks so you don't regenerate/overwrite them by mistake. Remember RB has 48 tracks to play with.

Bob
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#541287 - 06/16/19 04:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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DC Ron Offline
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Bob, thanks again.

Yes, know about auditioning in Stylepicker.

May have to dive into RB again, despite the past traumas. Thanks for reminding me of the features.

The odd thing about my MIDI drums issue is that the MIDI style picker dialogue box indicates that I CAN make a MIDI drum style change, and offers me drum-only presets. But even after selecting a preset, the actual MIDI drums being played are NOT what I selected. Stranger still, the display indicates that the MIDI drum style HAS been selected. Suspect there's a bug in there.

Think I'll go to tech support to see what they say...

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#542608 - 06/24/19 10:54 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: substituting MIDI drums for RealDrums [Re: DC Ron]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< Ron, are you aware you can audition styles by double clicking on them in the Stylepicker window?
Your point about not being able to audition individual midi instruments is a good one. I've been requesting that for years. Unfortunately all the midi instruments are packed into a style and the only way to hear them is to audition the style. >>>



The StylePicker in BIAB is better for auditioning than the one used by RealBand. The StylePickers are different.


The BIAB StylePicker has an extra Play Radio Button that allows you to audition every Style playing using the Chord Chart and other settings of your loaded song. The RB StylePicker does not have this feature.


Using the BIAB StylePicker, when you utilize this Play Radio Button, you hear how the drums (and every other instrument) will sound in your song rather than how it sounds in the PGMusic demo song. A Style can sound drastically different over your Chord Chart Song Settings than it does playing the demo. Another benefit is you can audition hundreds of different instruments hearing how they will sound over your Chord Chart and other settings in minutes.


In the updated StylePicker recently released, you can also mute the various tracks right from the StylePicker at the end of each track there's a box with two dots. Click on it and from the menu that opens, select Track Settings\Mute or Solo

Be careful using the mute/solo as it can throw off the styles because a change of Styles may load without a default synth assigned.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Patch Update Available! (Build 642)

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Note: this patch is not intended to update your version to the recently released Band-in-a-Box® 2020, which is available for purchase here.

Summary of Changes for Version 2019 Build 642 (Jan 08 2020):
Changed: Default the 'include similar styles in the stylepicker' to false each bootup.
Improved: BootupLog.txt will include more elaborate information when troubleshooting bootup problems. This only applies if WriteBootUpLog.txt is present in the Data folder.
Updated: PDF and help (routine cleanup/updaes).
Fixed: "There is no audio file currently recorded" error message when using Audio > Plugin.
Fixed: [Video] > Render Video(s)... menu item should launch the Make Chordsheet Video dialog if Video RealTracks export is not available.
Fixed: Access violation in Song Titles browser if no song is selected when clicking [Close].
Fixed: Applying audio effects using Audio > Plugins would fail with error "Plugin cancelled. Original file is preserved".
Fixed: Audio > Edit Audio > Timeshift Audio would crash the program if the Audio Edit window was not open.
Fixed: Audio will not import to a custom position if there is already audio on the Audio track.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash during bootup if an ASIO driver was previously selected, and the device is no longer connected to the computer.
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash during bootup if there is a problem with font installation (usually after upgrading Windows 7 to Windows 10).
Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might crash when opening a song that contains note-based lyrics.
Fixed: Bar Lyrics and Section Text layers do not line up with bars in Notation window if there are repeats in song, and fake sheet mode is enabled.
Fixed: Clicking OK in the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup dialog should not close the floating Mixer window.
Fixed: Close button in Select chorus start/end dialog should behave like Cancel, ie user clicking on bar afterwards shouldn't do anything.
Fixed: Crash with error "external exception C06D007F" while launching if using Windows XP.
Fixed: Dragging a single track to export MIDI causes that track to be permanently soloed.
Fixed: If an ASIO driver cannot connect during bootup, the default WAS driver should be used instead.
Fixed: If using the 64 bit version of Band-in-a-Box, the BB2Go window would display an erroneous QuickTime version, and converting files to .m4a would fail. QuickTime is only available for the 32 bit version, but is only required if using Windows Vista or earlier.
Fixed: Lyrics would not display in the Big Lyrics if "Show chord symbols above the lyrics" was enabled.
Fixed: melodists were getting quantized incorrectly.
Fixed: Possible crash if editing a text layer while using the floating Notation Window.
Fixed: Possible freeze when importing compressed audio files.
Fixed: Practice window | Master Solos | Blues Piano, displays N/A.
Fixed: RealTracks #2975 (Vocal Oohs-Aahs) sometimes played incorrect chords for m7b5 and C7.
Fixed: Rebuilding styles list was causing errors sometimes.
Fixed: Several Piano and Organ MIDI SuperTracks have been edited to remove spurious MIDI events (e.g. mod wheel sometimes caused 'warbling' effect).
Fixed: Sforzando might not automatically be added to the VST list, causing Hi-Q patch selection to fail.
Fixed: Some bars for the B section of RT 2529 were dropping out.
Fixed: Some Bass and Nylon Guitar RealTracks (including 2718, 2724, 2722, 2725, 2719) have RealCharts added.
Fixed: StylePicker: User Category list wasn't refreshing after choosing a new user category.
Fixed: The About dialog said 'for Macintosh' instead of 'for Windows'.
Fixed: The Drop Station would not update if dropping a file onto Presonus Studio One.
Fixed: When choosing a compressed format for rendering files, and "One file per track" is enabled, the resulting files are .wav format instead of the compressed format.
Fixed: Wrong notes on Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Summary of changes for Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin 1.16.29:
Added: copy selected cell if nothing highlighted
Added: shift-arrows to select in chord sheet
Added: SHIFT-ENTER to go backwards in chord sheet
Added: SHIFT-TAB to go backwards in chord sheet, TAB to go forward
Added: support for all Biab file types
Fixed: Added message if attempting to drag tracks before generating
Fixed: Alert window buttons "punch hole" when pressed
Fixed: Audio stutters when resizing plugin in some DAWs
Fixed: auto gen after open feature not working in Studio One 4
Fixed: bounds when highlighting in chord sheet
Fixed: C#7b5b9b13 to chord sheet
Fixed: distortion when stopping playback in pro tools
Fixed: losing focus in chord sheet
Fixed: make selected cell at the end after pasting
Fixed: Open dialog in infinite loop
Fixed: plugin stops playing non-synced tracks when closing and then opening plugin
Fixed: Send space bar keystrokes to DAW
Fixed: some styles not dragging all tracks from blue button
Fixed: track text not resizing correctly
Fixed: Transpose not working
Fixed: Verify folders before each call to Biab

New Left-Handed & Student View Guitar Window in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows, the Guitar window has been remade and now supports the left-handed (in addition to right-handed) guitar and student view!

The student view is the view a student (or YouTube video watcher) would have of the (right-handed) guitar facing him with the head at the right and low notes at the top. There's also a left-handed student view, so all 4 possible views are supported.

To change the view, press the [Guitar] toolbar button to open the Guitar window and then the [Settings] button.

See this new feature in action when you jump to the "Left-Handed & Student View Guitar Fretboard" topic in our 2020 New Features video: Click here...

Loops with Style PAK 1 - Just $19 Until January 15th!

The recently released Loops-with-Style PAK 1 is your chance to expand your loops collection with 100 new loops!

To show them in action, we've created 50 new RealStyles that each include two of the loops. Plus, if you use the loops in Band-in-a-Box, we've included intelligent versions of the loops that automatically switch at A and B part markers. Each loop has a matching sister loop that works perfectly for another substyle!

We're offering Loops-with-Style PAK 1 at the introductory price of $19, but only until January 15, 2020 (reg. price $29). Purchase here.

Note: Loops-with-Style PAK 1 requires the Band-in-a-Box® 2019 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Watch the demonstration video...

Windows user? Click here for product information, or to to purchase Loops-with-Style PAK 1.

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