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#540787 - 06/13/19 02:23 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast
Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Don L Turner Offline
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Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
I enjoy coming up with new chord sequences. I use my guitar and go from scratch or I begin with an existing song and change things around .. or I use the BIAB Melodist Generate Chords function; my favorite and most useful preset is 58 Rock Fast, under Rock 8ths (Pop). Most of the other presets don't give me what I need. I will run 58 Rock Fast for the whole song and then regenerate bars in sets of two or more where I don't like the results.

The problem is this: I have no idea how to most effectively use all the options under the Melodist Maker Edit button. I sometimes get great final results but I have no idea why. Hit or miss can get annoying, especially when there are mostly misses.

I'd like a video explaining how to pick numbers to be inserted into the boxes for "Number of variations to choose from", Mix minor and major progressions", "Choose unusual chord progressions", and any other boxes that affect which chords get generated and how they are placed on the chord sheet. If possible, I'd like to learn how to exclude certain chord types from the generated chord sequence. Any instruction on how to get better and more consistent usable results would be appreciated.
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Don L. Turner

BIAB Audiophile 2020
Studio One 4

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#544185 - 07/05/19 08:42 AM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Don L Turner]
Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Don L Turner Offline
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Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
I am surprised at the lack of interest in this topic. I'm sure 58 Rock Fast is not the only useful preset (it's just my favorite), but if you learn how to use one preset you know them all. The only other possibility for low interest is folks just don't use this feature to create chord sequences for new songs. I have found it very useful, allowing me to come up with dozens of chords sequences I would have never thought of by myself.

Maybe if a video was created showing the possibilities, this feature would gain popularity.
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Don L. Turner

BIAB Audiophile 2020
Studio One 4

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#544293 - 07/05/19 06:06 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Don L Turner]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6372
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6372
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Don,

I haven't used the Melodist feature so I'm not familiar with its options or how to use it. However the description available in the manual starting at page 300 or by pressing the Help button appears to describe what each option does pretty well.

There is a 15 minute video covering both the Soloist and Melodist features +++ HERE +++. The video is located in the Archive video section.

An easy way to find any specific video is to navigate to the page, press Ctrl + F and enter a search term. In this case I entered the term "Melodist" without the quotes. The up arrow and down arrow next to the search box act as previous / next buttons that will navigate between occurrences of the search term.

Hope this helps.
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#544538 - 07/07/19 05:26 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Don L Turner Offline
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Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Hello Jim. Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. I've seen the videos and was aware of what the manual says; the descriptions are too general to be helpful.

The thing I hoped for may not even be possible. The most important parts of the "melodist maker" (click "Edit..." to see it) are controlled by numbers. I was hoping to get an explanation of which numbers have what effect on the generated chord sequence. Sometimes I get great results, especially after I regenerate parts I don't like. Too often the results are uninspiring or unusable. I thought maybe certain combinations of numbers might be more useful and might have a repeatably good result.

Thank you anyway,
Don
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Don L. Turner

BIAB Audiophile 2020
Studio One 4

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#544547 - 07/07/19 07:00 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Don L Turner]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6372
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6372
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Don,

I understand what you're saying. I think trying to provide a formula or method that suggests what numbers to change and by how much would be very difficult. In that respect it would sort of like asking a cook to define "season to taste" from a favorite recipe.

Perhaps broad strokes could be applied to the descriptions through the addition of phrases like,"lowering "X" seeks more simple phrases" and "raising "X" seeks more complex phrases". At least then a user could develop a better idea of what changes to try.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (730) RB (Build 5) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 2004, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#545051 - 07/11/19 06:52 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Don L Turner Offline
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Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Yesterday I used Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast once again, with the three important numbers fairly low. After some regenerating of chords I did not like, and after a little manual editing ... I once again came up with a chord sequence I would have never thought of on my own. It was an AABA song structure with B being a bridge section and A being verses, one of my favorite song structures. Somehow, the B section was in a different key but transitioned back into the song key at the bridge's end. That kind of stuff is over my head, but with BIAB's Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast I managed to make it happen.

It's a shame that I'll try a dozen more times and give up in frustration from the poor results.

It's numbers ... and how they affect a chord sequence and space between chord changes. Lower numbers do make for simpler chords but there must be a known effect (perhaps by the original programmer) of what number (or range of numbers) does what and how different numbers in different dialog boxes might affect each other in the final result.

Perhaps results are more or less random and no further explanation is possible. If that is true, then so be it. But if there can be an effective, explainable method for generating better chord sequences, it would be great to let those of us who use this function have a better, more specific understanding of how to make use of it.
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Don L. Turner

BIAB Audiophile 2020
Studio One 4

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#547631 - 07/31/19 06:03 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Don L Turner]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7484
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7484
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Many different programs, not just music ones have controls like that. Photo editing for example. What I do is start with the lowest number, zero if it's available, see what that does then try the highest number and do that several times. That usually tells you how it works. Then put that control number back to zero and do the next one. Don't try testing 2 or 3 of them at the same time, too confusing to keep track of.

When you said the bridge section went to a different key and then transitioned back, that's standard procedure in all kinds of songs in many different genre's. Biab follows classical musical concepts and that kind of thing happens all the time. There are songs that have 2, 3 or 4 key changes going on. Biab also has a practice function where you set it to play a set of chords in all 12 keys using the cycle of 5ths every 8 or 12 bars so you can practice along and get familiar with how those keys sound relative to each other.

That's where Biab gets it reputation as a great teaching tool as well as creating songs from scratch or from what you input.

Bob
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#547719 - 08/01/19 08:46 AM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Don L Turner Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Thanks for the advice, Bob. I've been progressively changing numbers in all three areas that seem to have an effect on the chord sequence. Perhaps leaving two at the lowest setting and just changing one may give me a better understanding of what's happening. Then, I can incorporate changes to one other area and see what happens, and then to the last affecting area.

I'll try that and see if I can glean the underlying secrets of the Melodist.
_________________________
Don L. Turner

BIAB Audiophile 2020
Studio One 4

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#572356 - 12/24/19 01:40 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Don L Turner]
Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Don L Turner Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Well, I give up on experimenting with BIAB Melodist Generate Chords function, looking for the best method to use it. I cannot see any particular combination that gives consistently useful results (for my music needs). Perhaps, it's just a random thing, with no rhyme or reason to the numbers in the "Number of variations to choose from", Mix minor and major progressions", "Choose unusual chord progressions" or other checkboxes.

I will keep using the Melodist to generate chords and just keep regenerating all or part of the results, and making my own changes, until I get something I want.

But if there is, in fact, a more organized way to deal with the Melodist Generate Chords function, I hope that eventually it will be revealed in an instructional video.
_________________________
Don L. Turner

BIAB Audiophile 2020
Studio One 4

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#572457 - 12/25/19 03:48 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Don L Turner]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5422
Loc: Carmel New York
Rob Helms Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5422
Loc: Carmel New York
Hey, Don just out of curiousty how much have you tinkered with the chord selector in the chord track in SD1?


by the way part of SC are you in?


Edited by Rob Helms (12/25/19 03:53 PM)
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#572461 - 12/25/19 05:51 PM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Don L Turner Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 86
Loc: SC, USA
Not very much, I'm afraid. I've been plagued by tinnitus for a long while and have not used my daw at all recently. In fact, I can only work with BIAB for a short while, provided the reverb is off. In the past my tinnitus would come and go; so far, it hasn't gotten better yet.

I know that the chord track works okay in some instances, especially with midi. And I had planned to turn one track into midi in the plugin version to capture BIAB chords in the chord track; haven't tried it but it should work.

I live in the upstate of SC; not comfortable with being more specific than that.
_________________________
Don L. Turner

BIAB Audiophile 2020
Studio One 4

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#577926 - 01/26/20 06:03 AM [I want a video that shows me how to ....] Re: Get the best chord sequence results from Melodist preset 58 Rock Fast [Re: Don L Turner]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5422
Loc: Carmel New York
Rob Helms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5422
Loc: Carmel New York
I have had fairly good results with the chord track especially with audio from the BiaB plugin. It might be advantageous to tinker with it in SD4 maybe open up a BiaB song in the plugin and transfer the chords from an audio track to the chords track then open the chord track wheel thing and poke around some.

I understand your reluctance to nail your location down. One never knows who reads here. There are several users here in the upstate. Myself, Charlie Fogle, Mountainside, to name a few. Seems the area is well represented here at PGM.

Regards, Rob


Edited by Rob Helms (01/26/20 06:08 AM)
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