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#540992 - 06/14/19 01:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Registered: 04/17/18
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Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Below is a screen shot of Tracktion with one of my songs pieced together---the 7+ minute ballad that I spent 30 hours on in one particular week a couple of months ago. The first track is the drum track. It was produced from a single .WAV file from BiaB that I replicated six times. The reason I had to do this is that the primary down beat of the drums switched at various places in the song.

The second track contains two copies of a partial drum track that my producer had created for me so that I would know where the primary down beat of the drums was occurring in the verses. Appended onto the end of the second copy of his drum track are three copies of BiaB's drum track, which I needed to bump up the volume of the first track to match the volume of my producer's drum track.

The third and fourth tracks contain two copies of BiaB exported .WAV files stitched together. The third track is the finger-picking guitar and base guitar combined from BiaB, and the fourth track is the strumming guitar from BiaB.

The fifth track is a full-length .WAV file of an earlier version of the same song that I had previously exported from Traction after I had stitched together two copies of a BiaB exported .WAV file of all the instruments in my song except for the drums.

The seventh track contains four copies of a three note transitional drum section that I exported from MuseScore to emulate and replace the transitional drum sections in my producer's partial drum track. I created these to make it easier for me to adjust the location of these transitional sections if I needed to add or remove a measure before or after the occurrence of these transitional sections.

The eighth track contains a .WAV file of the melody of my entire song that I exported from MuseScore.


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#541013 - 06/14/19 04:06 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?
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#541015 - 06/14/19 04:33 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
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silvertones Offline
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Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?
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#541017 - 06/14/19 04:53 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
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Jim Fogle Online   happy
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Muzikluver,

Mixers blend two audio clips together to create a continuous sounding audio sound by performing a cross fade (also written as crossfade). Track 1 audio is reduced while track 2 audio is increased. Band-in-a-Box and RealBand automatically cross fade when linking two audio clips together to create RealTracks. Many daws have an automatic crossfade feature that can be turned on while editing tracks together. I don't know if Traction has a crossfade feature.

+++ HERE +++ is a video by the University of Kentucky that demonstrates a cross fade.
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#541027 - 06/14/19 05:58 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Originally Posted By: silvertones
Have you tried importing as a midi file as opposed to xml?

No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords. Also, the melody is included in the .XML file as midi and ends up as Piano2 in Track 6 of BiaB. I always turn that off and import a .WAV file of the melody from MuseScore because it sounds much better than the midi track.
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#541043 - 06/14/19 07:55 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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RB can interpret them.
The melody wave is probably better because the synth in the notation program. Change the synth in RB to something better than the awful wave table.
I assume your song is a complete score in the notation program.
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#541045 - 06/14/19 08:24 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5751
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< Instead of exporting multiple .WAV files from BIAB or RB and then stitching those separate files together into one full length song in a DAW, I've been exporting one .WAV file from BIAB that contains all the elements of my song after which I replicated that .WAV file two or more times in Traction and then stitched those separate .WAV files together (after cropping them properly) into one full length song that I could export as a single .WAV file. >>>

It's my suggestion you export multiple .WAV files from BIAB and stitch the audio files into your full length song in a DAW rather than attempting one .WAV file that contains all the elements of the song that you cut/paste/copy to increase the length of your song. Here's why. The elements of your song you are replicating are exact duplicates of the original audio you're replicating. What you are doing is looping the same audio. So if you copy a verse and paste that verse into another verse, it's the same audio. Whereas if you construct your song in BIAB with each verse having it's audio generated and rendered where each verse is constructed by its own .sgu file, no verses will be exactly alike. Your song will sound much better and also more human. The result will carry over into every section of your song, be it intro, chorus, verses, bridge and outro.

<<< My concern from the beginning of my use of BIAB was (and still is) that piecing together chunks of short BIAB generated song tracks into a single, long song arrangement would result in odd and/or glitchy audio seams occurring at the junctures of those chunks. >>>

This is one of the unique features of the intelligence of BIAB generated audio and should never be a problem or concern. Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques will virtually assure successful smooth transitions.



<<< No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords.>>> BIAB automatically decodes and populates the Chord Chart. Since you've written the song, you will immediately detect any errors and can manually correct those you find.
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#541055 - 06/14/19 09:59 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Mixers blend two audio clips together to create a continuous sounding audio sound by performing a cross fade (also written as crossfade). Track 1 audio is reduced while track 2 audio is increased. Band-in-a-Box and RealBand automatically cross fade when linking two audio clips together to create RealTracks. Many daws have an automatic crossfade feature that can be turned on while editing tracks together. I don't know if Traction has a crossfade feature.

I'm familiar with crossfading from the gradual transitions between songs on AM and FM radio and from creating my own custom compilation cassette tapes decades ago. Yes, Tracktion does have a cross fade feature along with several other fade features. Check out the section under the red arrow in the attached image below.


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#541056 - 06/14/19 10:30 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Quote:
RB can interpret them.

Thanks for the suggestion, silvertones. I may try that with my next song, but I doubt that RB's chord interpretation will match the chords that I've come up with from my own analysis of the melody and experimentation on my guitar. Even after I've figured out all the chords to my songs (I do that last after I've written the melody and lyrics and entered them into MuseScore), my producer will always recommend a few chord changes at various locations in my songs. Sometimes, he recommends that I change a melodic section to eliminate a chord or two or to change a strong chord progression to a weak one (or vice-versa), as he did with the last song I gave him.
Quote:
The melody wave is probably better because the synth in the notation program. Change the synth in RB to something better than the awful wave table.

That's a great idea! I don't know how to do that, but I can check the manual. This would eliminate a recurring step and save me some time.
Quote:
I assume your song is a complete score in the notation program.

Yep, it sure is. That's where I put most of my effort in the beginning of the songwriting process for precise documentation of the melody and lyrics to my songs because I'm not a singer. This reduces the amount of time I have to spend prepping my songs in BiaB.
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#541060 - 06/14/19 11:43 PM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Quote:
It's my suggestion you export multiple .WAV files from BIAB and stitch the audio files into your full length song in a DAW rather than attempting one .WAV file that contains all the elements of the song that you cut/paste/copy to increase the length of your song. Here's why. The elements of your song you are replicating are exact duplicates of the original audio you're replicating. What you are doing is looping the same audio. So if you copy a verse and paste that verse into another verse, it's the same audio. Whereas if you construct your song in BIAB with each verse having it's audio generated and rendered where each verse is constructed by its own .sgu file, no verses will be exactly alike. Your song will sound much better and also more human. The result will carry over into every section of your song, be it intro, chorus, verses, bridge and outro.

Thanks for your suggestion, Charlie, but this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs. So, going through the extra effort with these additional steps would be a waste of time. However, your suggestion is great for demos of my songs that I want to share with other people besides him---especially if I'm pitching a song to an artist, label, singer, etc. with the goal of having them acquire or license it for their use. I have a couple of song demos that I need to redo in BiaB using your suggestion to make them sound even better than they already do sound.

Quote:
<<< My concern from the beginning of my use of BIAB was (and still is) that piecing together chunks of short BIAB generated song tracks into a single, long song arrangement would result in odd and/or glitchy audio seams occurring at the junctures of those chunks. >>>

This is one of the unique features of the intelligence of BIAB generated audio and should never be a problem or concern. Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques will virtually assure successful smooth transitions.

The key phrase here is "Learning and applying proper multitrack recording techniques . . . ." This is going to take some time for me to do as I become more and more familiar with the features and capabilities of both BiaB and RB by experimentation, by watching the tutorial videos on this website and on Youtube, by reading the manual as needed, and by reading the discussions in both the BiaB forum and this one.

Quote:
<<< No because a midi file wouldn't have all the chords.>>> BIAB automatically decodes and populates the Chord Chart. Since you've written the song, you will immediately detect any errors and can manually correct those you find.

Silvertones made the same comment about RB, to which I responded as follows:

"Thanks for the suggestion. I may try that with my next song, but I doubt that RB's chord interpretation will match the chords that I've come up with from my own analysis of the melody and experimentation on my guitar. Even after I've figured out all the chords to my songs (I do that last after I've written the melody and lyrics and entered them into MuseScore), my producer will always recommend a few chord changes at various locations in my songs. Sometimes, he recommends that I change a melodic section to eliminate a chord or two or to change a strong chord progression to a weak one, as he did with the last song I gave him."
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#541091 - 06/15/19 05:48 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5751
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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<<< this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs.>>>

I don't understand what you mean by your statement above. What do you provide to your producer as a demo for him to create his arrangement? A single stereo audio file? an .XML file? A Pro Tools or other DAW session containing all the individual tracks?

How does his arrangement based from your demo and suggested changes to your demo affect how you created or will edit your demo?


Edited by Charlie Fogle (06/15/19 05:53 AM)
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#541096 - 06/15/19 06:18 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
It will. It'll interpret the midi notes in the score.If you get weird chords they will be technically correct but may not be pleasing. Those you can change.
Btw also drop the use of biab. I did 10 years ago. Learn RB it does more than biab.The xml file should work the same.
Before you import turn all bb tracks in RB to regular tracks.This should give you the whole song in midi format.Right click on a track in RB and generate any Real track. Forget about styles for RT. Just add 1 track at a time with musicians you want not those dictated by the style.
Sidebar: I'm a pro player playing 4 days a week for 8 months. Then I go into new song mode. I have over300 songs done this way.
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#541097 - 06/15/19 06:27 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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In these days if you don't submit a perfect demo to a producer he wont even listen. Even if the song than goes 180°. I also do some local producing. If the artist doesn't care about his demo why should I.
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#541098 - 06/15/19 06:32 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Send me a link to an xml file and I'll send you back a song done my way.
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#541103 - 06/15/19 07:21 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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In these days if you don't submit a perfect demo to a producer he wont even listen. Even if the song than goes 180°. I also do some local producing. If the artist doesn't care about his demo why should I.
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John
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#541108 - 06/15/19 08:01 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
It takes less than 1 min. to generate a 320 bar Real Track track.
BTW even though your tracks in RB have been made to regular tracks as long as they are REAL TRACKS you can still regenerate the whole track or just sections.
You can also edit just like a word Processor. Make sure to use the "snap feature" You can cut, copy, paste etc.
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#541112 - 06/15/19 08:33 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Starting out with all regular tracks in RB and generating a track I noticed at the very top " generating 1/2. It generated up to bar 240 than 240 to the end. Small vertical bar at 240. Changed chord at bar 240 and it followed. It was seamless.I suspect the onger the song the more steps.


Edited by silvertones (06/15/19 08:34 AM)
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#541113 - 06/15/19 08:38 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Once done there is also a feture to save all tracks as individual wav files. It even makes the folder. Then just drag and drop into Traktion. Easy peasy.
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#541114 - 06/15/19 08:39 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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BTW I use RB 2019 Build4
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#541125 - 06/15/19 10:12 AM [RealBand] Re: Glitch and erroneous chord change occurring between bar 240 and bar 241 [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
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Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
<<< this would not be beneficial for demos of my songs that I take to my producer because he'll be creating his own arrangement for those songs.>>>

I don't understand what you mean by your statement above. What do you provide to your producer as a demo for him to create his arrangement? A single stereo audio file? an .XML file? A Pro Tools or other DAW session containing all the individual tracks?

How does his arrangement based from your demo and suggested changes to your demo affect how you created or will edit your demo?

As I mentioned in a previous post (either in this discussion or in the BiaB discussion of my idea to fix the 255 bar limit), the last song I gave my producer two months ago is the first song for which I created a demo using BiaB and gave that to him instead of just a lead sheet with melody, lyrics, and chords. For the first six songs he produced for me since February 2017 when I started working with him, I only gave him a lead sheet and a midi file of the melody, and he created his arrangement from those. In other words, the lead sheet and midi file have always been the focus. All the changes that I make to my songs are put into the lead sheet.

But with my most recent song that I took to my producer, I used an .XML file of my lead sheet to create a basic arrangement and demo with BiaB so that my producer didn't have to play my song on his guitar (I don't play it for him). This made it easier for him to identify any potential problem areas that needed additional work done to them because he didn't have to learn how to play the song at the same time that he was critiquing it. However, I didn't just give him a stereo .WAV file for him to listen to. Instead, after I exported BiaB's arrangement minus the melody track to a stereo .WAV file, I imported the .WAV file into ActivePresenter as an accompanying track to the melody that already existed in a video that I had used ActivePresenter to create by capturing the lead sheet one section at a time using MuseScore's "Play" function. In other words, I used the demo arrangement from BiaB to enhance the video I had made of MuseScore playing the melody of my song as it scrolled through the lead sheet. This enabled my producer to see and hear everything that was going on in my song without him having to touch his guitar or my lead sheet by watching the video I had created.

Because this last song was the first song for which I used BiaB, it took me several weeks of going back and forth with my producer for me to realize that I needed to fine tune and simplify my BiaB arrangement so that it only contained four instruments---drums, bass guitar, and two guitars (one strumming the chords, and the other finger picking those chords). Keeping my arrangement simple and clean made it easier for him to focus on the lyric/melody/chord interactions in my song as he monitored the drum track for any primary down-beat switching that occurred. And when he discovered a problem (which there were a few), he told me what I needed to do to fix it either by modifying the melody, changing a chord or two, adding or removing a chord, adding or removing a measure, or modifying the drum track itself, as I illustrated in the Tracktion screen capture I shared a few posts ago. With the exception of the drum track issue, all of the problems I fixed were accomplished by making changes to the lead sheet and then using the .XML file of a new version of that lead sheet to create a new arrangement with BiaB and a new video with ActivePresenter.

One final point I need to make. I am primarily a songwriter and a mediocre guitar player. I am not a singer, performer, arranger, or producer, and I don't know if I'll ever be any of these (although anything is possible, so I won't rule these out). So, for the songs that I take to my producer, I don't need or want a top-notch arranged and produced demo of those songs. But for my other songs that I probably won't be taking to him, I want to create a decent enough demo of those songs that I can share with family and friends and also present to others in the music industry with the goal of finding a way to get those songs professionally produced, performed, and released to the public. Currently, my main focus is on finishing the album project that I started over two years ago. At the same time, however, I want to use BiaB, RB, and any other helpful program to continue the development of other songs I've written that won't be going on this album. In the process, I'm willing and eager to learn to use these programs to their full potential in all the ways that will meet my needs. But I don't want to get bogged down in learning skills and procedures that I don't really need to learn and won't end up using on a regular basis.
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Review - Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows

Make sure to check out the latest Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows review from Sound-Guy (Dennis) at www.gearslutz.com: click here.

Sound-Guy has been using Band-in-a-Box® for many, many, many, many, many years - and we still managed to surprise him with some great new features! Read his latest review to learn more about his favorite additions for 2020!

"Band-in-a-Box continues to evolve as an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to produce not only new compositions and arrangements, but also perform them with excellent musical “talent”. It also provides educational and training tools for keyboardists and guitarists. It’s easy to use the basic functions, and challenging enough to keep you occupied for years. BIAB provides education, inspiration, a “live” band to aid in practicing, and anything from backing tracks to full performances for recording."
-Sound-Guy, www.gearslutz.com

How I Use Band-in-a-Box® to Create Shots/Chops

Band-in-a-Box® user Henry Clarke creates a lot of great songs with Band-in-a-Box®, and he's shared his steps for creating the shots/chops within his recent song Lonely in a Crowd.

To watch Henry's video, click here.

Have your own program tip to share? Feel free to post it to our Tips & Tricks forum.

#TipTuesday

Uncommon RealTracks Instruments for Band-in-a-Box®

Today is Uncommon Instrument Awareness Day.

Examples of "uncommon instruments" include anything from Spoons to the Wheelharp to the Singing Ringing Tree, and more!
(there's probably more instruments out there that we DON'T know than we DO know)

Although our RealTracks collection doesn't include many 'uncommon instruments', we do offer some pretty unique choices!

On top of the usual varieties we offer for Piano, Guitar, Saxophone, Flute, Clarinet, Bass, Tuba, Trumpet, Trombone, and more - our RealTracks library also offers a nice selection of Shakuhachi and Kalimba - there's even a Koto RealTrack included in Set 212!

Kalimba: RealTracks Set 271
Koto: RealTracks Set 212
Shakuhachi: RealTracks Sets 193 & 212

What's the most surprising RealTrack Instrument that you've come across?

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Portuguese for Windows is Here!

Existem mais de 50 novos recursos no Band-in-a-Box® 2020! Existem aprimoramentos no RealTracks (RealTracks vocais com som mais suave, RealTracks Engrossados, Substitutos de RealTracks e MultiFrases). A maioria dos RealDrums agora possui RealCharts (com notação de bateria precisa). Há um novo navegador de artistas do RealTracks para encontrar informações/biografias/links/listas de RealTracks em todos os artistas. Um novo Navegador de recursos permite que o usuário novo ou "esquecido" encontre e use facilmente a maioria dos recursos/teclas de atalho/documentos em uma única janela. Equalizar Tempoaprimoramentos na Seleção de Músicas, baixo/bateria ou apenas bateria nas introduções automáticas, 3.400 títulos adicionados, aprimoramentos no MusicXML, visualização de guitarra para "Canhotos" e "Estudantes", aprimoramentos de arrastar e soltar, exibição de várias janelas do Interpretador de Acordes de Áudio e muito mais!

COMPRE/ATUALIZE, & BAIXE AGORA!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Mac Update Ready!

Just because Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac is here doesn't mean we've forgotten our 2019 users!

If you're still using Band-in-a-Box® 2019, make sure you download the latest patch update (b324) for an updated splash screen (macOS 10.12 and 10.13 users), smoother Song Titles dialog, access to your (purchased) RealTracks Set 328, and we've corrected the reported issue with opening songs from older versions of Band-in-a-Box in the 2019 version.

Learn more about this patch and download it here.

Review - Loops-with-Style PAK 2 for Band-in-a-Box® 2020

"Dr. Dave" Walker is at it again! You may remember his recent reviews of both Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Mac and Xtra Styles PAK 9 - now he has something to say about our Loops-with-Style PAK 2 - check it out: Click here to read...

With money being tight for most musicians, this is a wonderful gift for those on a limited budget. At $29, it offers months and years of fun and experimentation, bringing many ideas to fruition as songs with enough variation so that your audience doesn’t jump to "aw, that's a computer!" while still keeping the power of the software in your hands.
-"Dr. Dave" Walker

Thank you again Dr. Dave for the great review!

Learn more about Loops-with-Style PAKs: Windows | Mac

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