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#541506 - 06/18/19 12:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Hi Bernt,

Noel has answered exactly what the issue you are experiencing is. It is related to the external MIDI sound module that is reproducing the audio sounds from the MIDI data commands coming from BiaB.

Replace the MIDI sound module with one of higher quality and your sounds would definitely improve.

What sound module are you using?

Do you have VSTi/DXi checked in the MIDI/Audio Drivers setup options, and have chosen a software synth (see image below)? If so, which one?



Hi Videotrack
Yes, software synth and the setup looks the same as your screen shot except for the MIDI driver box is not ticked.

I will right now try and download the Kontakt-Player and see if that helps. I really need clarinet, piano and trumpet or cornet for my practice home band.
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#541510 - 06/18/19 01:28 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Hi all,

Thanks for all the suggestions. But everyone here is so advanced with this stuff that I did not understand the half of it.

Anyway,
I installed the Kontakt-Player as suggested and read some of the manual but I still have ZERO idea whether it must run as plugin or stand alone nor how to link it into BIB.
It's MIDI setup output once again ends up in the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I cannot get it to appear in the BIB MIDI setup either.

The Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth will not install successfully at this stage.
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#541514 - 06/18/19 01:43 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
Originally Posted By: berntd
Hi all,

Thanks for all the suggestions. But everyone here is so advanced with this stuff that I did not understand the half of it.

Anyway,
I installed the Kontakt-Player as suggested and read some of the manual but I still have ZERO idea whether it must run as plugin or stand alone nor how to link it into BIB.
It's MIDI setup output once again ends up in the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I cannot get it to appear in the BIB MIDI setup either.

The Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth will not install successfully at this stage.





Did you watch the videos that I linked earlier? Watch them until the end (especially the one titled "How to locate and install..." Towards the end of the video I actually load a bunch of plugins, including Native Instruments Guitar Rig 5

Also, once that's done, keep in mind that in Kontakt you need to load an Ensemble (ens.) first.

Editing to add screenshot


Attachments
Kontakt A Edit.png




Edited by DeaconBlues09 (06/18/19 01:50 AM)
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#541517 - 06/18/19 02:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I have not yet watched all your kindly linked videos. Time is of the essence as I really need to practice music (my teacher will complain - again). I will get onto it right away.
BTW: Thank you for all the help!
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#541518 - 06/18/19 02:12 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: berntd
I have not yet watched all your kindly linked videos. Time is of the essence as I really need to practice music (my teacher will complain - again). I will get onto it right away.
BTW: Thank you for all the help!




No worries! I specifically made those videos because I feel that if a picture is worth a thousand words, and step-by-step video is worth at least 10,000!

I actually want to make a whole series of videos on MIDI, but I need to get a better headset to connect to my new desktop and get familiar with a better recording program that automatically ducks the soundcard playback when my voice comes in.

Work is crazy busy now as well, but my time frees up a bit late-summer, beginning of autumn, so stay tuned :-)
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#541525 - 06/18/19 03:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Ok, I now had a few glasses of wine to drown my frustration...

I have watched the videos but I am none the wiser except that it is even more involved than I first thought.

@DeaconBlues, you show and mention so many tech terms, acronyms and show folders and screens in those videos that I simply do not have.
The installation of the Kontakt-Player did not produce these either. Or did it somewhere? And you also mentioned that it needs an ensemble first. Say what?

It appears that Without a (really) basic step by step guide on what to do (Pgmusic where can I find that??), I do not think that I will be able to get a better sound out of Band in a Box MIDI styles. :-(

Unfortunately the few styles I mostly want for traditional jazz and dixieland etc. are all MIDI only. It was not really clear that it would take a huge technical know-how beyond actual music making (or a huge additional expense for synth. equipment) to try and get it to sound half way decent when I purchased the BIB.
Unless I am just missing something?
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#541529 - 06/18/19 03:51 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
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Originally Posted By: berntd
Ok, I now had a few glasses of wine to drown my frustration...

I have watched the videos but I am none the wiser except that it is even more involved than I first thought.

@DeaconBlues, you show and mention so many tech terms, acronyms and show folders and screens in those videos that I simply do not have.
The installation of the Kontakt-Player did not produce these either. Or did it somewhere? And you also mentioned that it needs an ensemble first. Say what?

It appears that Without a (really) basic step by step guide on what to do (Pgmusic where can I find that??), I do not think that I will be able to get a better sound out of Band in a Box MIDI styles. :-(

Unfortunately the few styles I mostly want for traditional jazz and dixieland etc. are all MIDI only. It was not really clear that it would take a huge technical know-how beyond actual music making (or a huge additional expense for synth. equipment) to try and get it to sound half way decent when I purchased the BIB.
Unless I am just missing something?



So I know this may seem like a somewhat unusual offer, but if you would feel comfortable enough for me to so, I would be glad to log into your computer via Teamveiwer at a time of mutual convenience and set everything up for you (I'm pretty sure that Sydney and Eilat Israel are in similar timezones, and I do a lot of troubleshooting for a work colleague via Teamviewer as we both work remotely...)
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#541531 - 06/18/19 04:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 12/20/16
Posts: 664
Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Teunis Offline
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Registered: 12/20/16
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Loc: Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...
Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09

So I know this may seem like a somewhat unusual offer, but if you would feel comfortable enough for me to so, I would be glad to log into your computer via Teamveiwer at a time of mutual convenience and set everything up for you (I'm pretty sure that Sydney and Eilat Israel are in similar timezones, and I do a lot of troubleshooting for a work colleague via Teamviewer as we both work remotely...)


Oops Sydney and Eilat Israel I would think would be 7 hours apart with Sydney in the lead.

Tony
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#541532 - 06/18/19 04:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: Teunis]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
Originally Posted By: Teunis
Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09

So I know this may seem like a somewhat unusual offer, but if you would feel comfortable enough for me to so, I would be glad to log into your computer via Teamveiwer at a time of mutual convenience and set everything up for you (I'm pretty sure that Sydney and Eilat Israel are in similar timezones, and I do a lot of troubleshooting for a work colleague via Teamviewer as we both work remotely...)


Oops Sydney and Eilat Israel I would think would be 7 hours apart with Sydney in the lead.

Tony


Oooops, that's so embarrassing!!! I was thinking of South Africa, which is only one hour behind me. I always confuse those two [cringe]
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#541537 - 06/18/19 04:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
That is a really kind offer!!
But it should surely be possible for anyone buying
BIB to get this sorted.

Worst of all, And I am actually a computer programmer - would you believe it?

I have now had correspondence with the Coolsoft VirtualSynth person and apparently there is a bug, preventing installation. He linked me a registry patch file. I now have that working.

I can get that to come up in BIB and I can get it to sound different. by changing the Midi output driver to VitualSynth #1.
It sounds different (ok better) and has reverb in it but the drums sound like the beat is back to front.

What can I try next?

Still no luck with the Kontakt-Player
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#541539 - 06/18/19 04:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
That's so odd.

If you want to load Kontakt, you could totally ignore the Coolsoft VirtualSynth thingy.

Would you mind updating your profile's signature to add your specs, including operating system, and which version of BiaB you're using?

Also, can refer back to the "locating and installing..." video and cite the exact time in your video where everything goes wrong?
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#541541 - 06/18/19 05:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Incidentally, this is the file path to load in Kontakt

C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit


Attachments
Screen 1.png

screen 2.png


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#541542 - 06/18/19 05:21 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Signature updated.
I have the suggested path and there are only 3 files in there.

I lost it as I do not understand what I am supposed to achieve.

Here is what I have so far: Please elaborate or correct...

1) BIB outputs MIDI onto tracks for different instruments. As in piano.
2) The BIB output pipes into the input some sort of MIDI driver.
3) The MIDI driver output goes into a virtual synthesizer.
4) This synthesizer uses font 5) files ??? or something ??? to generate output into the Audio driver / device.

To make it sound better, I need to replace
a) The synthesizer device /driver 4) or the font files 5)?

Or is this all wrong and the font files are an alternative to changing the synthesizer driver?

I really do no know.



Attachments
kontakt native instruments.jpg




Edited by berntd (06/18/19 05:24 AM)
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#541543 - 06/18/19 05:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 6113
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MusicStudent Offline
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If it helps at all ...I am afraid BIAB 2019 really made a mess of the midi synths. In the old days (last year) we would just recommend you shell out the 29$ for Coyote forte and problem solved. Since 2019 the lack of compatibility between the 32 vrs 64 bit applications combined with the introduction of some rather wanky 3rd party non-GM free midi sound players is totally a step backwards for this program. Hang in there, things will get better. Smarter people then us will figure it out and get the midi synths in BIAB back to where you don't need a music-engineering degree to set things up.
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#541544 - 06/18/19 05:29 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I added the vst kontakt4.dll in the plugin dialog as per your kind screen shots.

But after that, nothing looks different in that plugin dialog dropdown box. I alos added the *out.dll. No difference observable.
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#541545 - 06/18/19 05:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
Hey,

I will try and see if I can carve out some time this evening to record a video and post to Youtube later.

Sorry I can't respond to all your questions at the moment, as I have some work to catch up on.
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#541547 - 06/18/19 05:43 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
If it helps at all ...I am afraid BIAB 2019 really made a mess of the midi synths. In the old days (last year) we would just recommend you shell out the 29$ for Coyote forte and problem solved. Since 2019 the lack of compatibility between the 32 vrs 64 bit applications combined with the introduction of some rather wanky 3rd party non-GM free midi sound players is totally a step backwards for this program. Hang in there, things will get better. Smarter people then us will figure it out and get the midi synths in BIAB back to where you don't need a music-engineering degree to set things up.


Far out! So it is not just me then. I feel a bit better now. My engineering degree is not even much help for this:)
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#541554 - 06/18/19 06:21 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/24/10
Posts: 22
Loc: Baton Rouge Area
Grem Offline
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Registered: 05/24/10
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Originally Posted By: berntd
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
If it helps at all ...I am afraid BIAB 2019 really made a mess of the midi synths. In the old days (last year) we would just recommend you shell out the 29$ for Coyote forte and problem solved. Since 2019 the lack of compatibility between the 32 vrs 64 bit applications combined with the introduction of some rather wanky 3rd party non-GM free midi sound players is totally a step backwards for this program. Hang in there, things will get better. Smarter people then us will figure it out and get the midi synths in BIAB back to where you don't need a music-engineering degree to set things up.


Far out! So it is not just me then. I feel a bit better now. My engineering degree is not even much help for this:)



Glad you asked this question because I have been going nuts trying to figure this out. Will keep a watch on this thread.

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#541562 - 06/18/19 07:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 696
Loc: Eilat, Israel
Did you actually click on the Kontakt .dll file that appears in your screenshot?

It may be worth pointing out that unlike Reaper and most other DAWs and hosts, which have built in "browsers" that quick-scan and load up the contents of a folder, with BiaB you have to *select* the relevant file.
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#541566 - 06/18/19 07:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 816
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Online   content
Expert

Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 816
Loc: Cornwall UK
Hi

Glad you are getting to grips with Coolsoft.
Which sound fount did you try , did you try the Timbres of heaven, or ChoriumRevA
As mentioned in the link in my other post

(Extract from my web page with links)
SOUND FONTS

My personal favourite at the moment is the excellent Timbres Of Heaven By Don Allen (219 MB uncompressed).
Link below:

http://midkar.com/soundfonts/index.html


Another nice sound font if you want something with a slightly warmer sound is ChoriumRevA

http://www.un4seen.com/download.php?extra/ChoriumRevA.rar


Mike
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Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Build 315 Update Available!

Attention Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac users - a new FREE patch update (build 315) is available!
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Summary of changes for build 315 (Nov 15, 2019):

Fixed: Exporting MusicXML files was not working.
Fixed: When using "Auto-Hand split Piano track" feature, exported MIDI files contain wrong note durations on the Piano track.
Fixed: Note-based lyrics were not included when exporting MIDI files.
Fixed: User should be prompted to save their song when exiting, if they had added or removed plugins.
Fixed: The Record Audio dialog always says “Track type is Stereo” even if the track type is mono.
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