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#541924 - 06/20/19 06:40 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/10/15
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Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 910
Loc: Cornwall UK
Hi all

For those of you following the sound font branch of this thread.
I have just created a PAT file for BIAB for the Timbres of Heaven sound font for you.
See my post in the main BIAB windows forum.
Mike
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#541964 - 06/20/19 08:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 06/08/05
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Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Originally Posted By: berntd
No. I have to kill the application from the task manager.


Ok Berntd, it's time to get specific. I have two attachments at the bottom of this post Image 9 and 10. These are Screenshots I just took. Open Biab and go to the to the upper left and see the menu tab "Options". The first option is "Midi/Audio Drivers Setup". Click that and you see the window shown in Image 9. Make sure you've selected the Wavetable as your midi driver and you've checked the two boxes on the right "Use VST..." and "Route Midi...".

Right below that is where I have the "VSTsynthFont64" selected. Click that and you see my Image 10. In that window is where you select plugins starting with your synth at the top and you use the bottom 3 for effects. Here are my two screenshots:


Attachments
Screenshot (9).png (18 downloads)
Screenshot (10).png (17 downloads)

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#541965 - 06/20/19 09:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 06/08/05
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jazzmammal Offline
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To followup. This forum software is very weird when it comes to posting attachments. The Preview does not show them so you can't tell where they're going to show up and then you can't write anything below where the attachments are.

You'll see others who can post the actual image directly into the forum. You need a separate website to host the image in order to do that. What I did was use the forum's attachment feature. When you click Reply or Quote you scroll down just a bit and below the reply window you see a link called File Manager. Click that and you see where you can browse to where you've saved a screenshot. Click on that then hit Add File.

If you still have problems after you set up your synth like I've shown then please take a screen shot of the same two windows and post them.

Bob
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#541967 - 06/20/19 09:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Let me add picture # 3 to this fine collection. This shows how you insert different soundfont files to enhance the sounds.


Attachments
Capture 1.JPG


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#541969 - 06/20/19 09:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 12/08/02
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MusicStudent Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
You'll see others who can post the actual image directly into the forum. You need a separate website to host the image in order to do that. What I did was use the forum's attachment feature. When you click Reply or Quote you scroll down just a bit and below the reply window you see a link called File Manager. Click that and you see where you can browse to where you've saved a screenshot. Click on that then hit Add File.


Bob, I did the same as you. No separate website hosting. I use a jpg format and the file is 158k. That may have something to do with the inconsistent behavior.

Also notice I have the updated version of VSTSynthFont64 and I have loaded Mikes Timbres of Heaven, and I have an SF file of my old favorite Coyte Forte DXi GM. I have been very very busy as of late.


Edited by MusicStudent (06/20/19 09:46 AM)
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#542055 - 06/20/19 05:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
Hello all,
May I respectfully request that we please keep this thread on the topic of the soundfonts and how to improve the MIDI sound.
It has started branching into different issues which makes it hard to read.

Regards
Bernt
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#542088 - 06/20/19 11:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 05/02/19
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: berntd
No. I have to kill the application from the task manager.


Ok Berntd, it's time to get specific. I have two attachments at the bottom of this post Image 9 and 10. These are Screenshots I just took. Open Biab and go to the to the upper left and see the menu tab "Options". The first option is "Midi/Audio Drivers Setup". Click that and you see the window shown in Image 9. Make sure you've selected the Wavetable as your midi driver and you've checked the two boxes on the right "Use VST..." and "Route Midi...".

Right below that is where I have the "VSTsynthFont64" selected. Click that and you see my Image 10. In that window is where you select plugins starting with your synth at the top and you use the bottom 3 for effects. Here are my two screenshots:



@jazzmammal

My setup looked exactly like your screenshot until a few minutes ago. I think that is the default setting it came with.
I am not sure what you are trying to get me to do from there?

Regarding your screen 9:

Can you please tell me what the MIDI Output driver setting does in relation to the Use VSTi setting using the Synthfont64?

I installed the Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth and it appears under MIDI Output driver in screen 9. But when I select it instead of the Microsoft GS wavetable synth (screen 9), I still see all the same stuff in screen 10 as before.

It is unclear to me as to what the path of the MIDI to audio is in all these setup options.

@Musicstudent Dan,
I cannot follow what your picture is trying to show me. I see it but no idea where that setup screen comes from nor how you got to that point.

Best regards
Bernt



Attachments
setting screen 9.jpg

setting screen 10.jpg




Edited by berntd (06/20/19 11:42 PM)
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#542115 - 06/21/19 05:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 05/02/19
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
@DeaconBlues09 and group

If you are still here...
I have installed the free Kontakt-Player. I have a piano loaded and in the plug in version from BIAB MIDI setup, I can play the virtual keyboard and hear sound ok.

But there is no input from BIAB. I have the Piano set to Kontakt-Player but the piano does not play nothing.

In Kontakt, there is no MIDI input option showing in the MIDI settings.
Any idea how I can get Kontakt to accept MIDI input from BIAB?


Attachments
Kontakt setting 1.jpg




Edited by berntd (06/21/19 05:18 AM)
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#542119 - 06/21/19 05:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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You have a midi channel mismatch. You have Kontakt monitoring Channel 1 but BIAB piano is on Channel 3.

Bass 2
Piano 3
Melody 4
Thru 5
Guitar 6
Strings 7
Soloist 8

Quote:
In Kontakt, there is no MIDI input option showing in the MIDI settings.
It is there in your picture, MidiCh [A] 1
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#542123 - 06/21/19 06:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/08/02
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MusicStudent Offline
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Quote:
@Musicstudent Dan,
I cannot follow what your picture is trying to show me. I see it but no idea where that setup screen comes from nor how you got to that point.


Hit the Options button in your second picture and all will be revealed. This is where you replace the system GM with soundfonts.
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"...My goal is not to create backing tracks for my music, but rather to get more of me in my music."
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#542127 - 06/21/19 07:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
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DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Set the channel to "Omni" instead of "[A] 1" in Kontakt, or instead force to channel 1 instead of "none" in the drop down tab of the BiaB plugin dialogue box.
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#542128 - 06/21/19 07:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 910
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 910
Loc: Cornwall UK
HI Berntd

Don’t forget we took the tick out of use vst, to play sound fonts you will need that back if you are using Kontakt as it is a vsti.
As I said earlier Kontakt does not have a set of gm voices ready loaded .
Each voice has to be loaded in Kontakt and matched to the BIAB channel for that track.
You can see these BIAB channel numbers if you go to options/preferences/channels



You may well find it easier to insert separate instances of Kontakt for each track, that you want to use a Kontakt voice on.
Rather than set up a multi. That way you can set Kontakt input channel to omni for each instance and the it wont matter what channel BIAB sends on.
Mike
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BIAB2019,UltraPlus, Asus N55S,W10/64,Akai EIEpro,
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#542131 - 06/21/19 07:16 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/08/02
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MusicStudent Offline
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Here is a clue. Get the soundfonts working first. That will give you the better sounds in the easiest manner. Then jump into the deep end of the pool by working with Kontakt. Just a suggestion.
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"...My goal is not to create backing tracks for my music, but rather to get more of me in my music."
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#542168 - 06/21/19 09:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 06/08/05
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Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Yes, I was about to post the same thing. You're experienced with programming and have some understanding of midi so you should understand what I'm saying here. When you're having a problem with software you have to carefully narrow it down by keeping it simple and testing one thing at a time. Don't be suddenly jumping around until you've finished testing a previous thing. So let's back up a minute.

In your very first post you said the midi styles sounded terrible. That aside were you at least hearing all of the instruments? What were you using for your synth? The Coyote Wavetable or the VSTsynthfont?


My point is your screens look correct to me so the question is what changed? I don't have the technical answer as to how midi is routed through Biab because I don't care. All I know is do it this way and it works.

I have the answer for you getting no sound when you try to play piano through Kontakt but lets get past this first.

Bob
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#542279 - 06/21/19 07:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
Ladies and Gentlemen....Drum roll...

We have lift-off!

I now have the Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth working with the Timbre of Heaven font.

I also now have the Kontakt-Player playing that piano channel. (Oh boy, I need instruments {rubbing hands}!!)
That is great progress I reckon!

However, the 2 are mutually exclusive at this stage by the Use VSTi/DXI Synth tickbox in the MIDI driver setup.

Regards
Bernt



Edited by berntd (06/21/19 07:24 PM)
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#542300 - 06/21/19 11:38 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/29/19
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Willy6996 Offline
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You can use a vsti host on BB or use the midi out and a daw for to use more vsti on different chanel.

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#542308 - 06/22/19 12:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: Willy6996]
Registered: 05/02/19
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berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: Willy6996
You can use a vsti host on BB or use the midi out and a daw for to use more vsti on different chanel.


If I knew that bit of info at the beginning, this would have been a lot easier...
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#542339 - 06/22/19 07:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 910
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 910
Loc: Cornwall UK
HI

YOU can mix and match your default vsti with your Kontakt synth in the same BIAB song project.
You friend here is the Plugins window.
In here you can send some tracks to the default synth and some to instances of Kontakt inserted on other tracks.
Note the easiest way to do this is to first put a tick in the box in midi settings and chose what you want for your default vst dxi

Bring up the plug in window
The instrument and tracks are down the left hand side and correspond with the mixer
The bottom item is to set your default synth you must put this in the top slot on the right see pic1. All your tracks will use this unless you tell them otherwise individually.

If you want to use Kontakt say on the melody or any other track, click on that individual track down the left hand side of the plugins window and insert Kontakt for that track in the top slot on the right to overwrite the default for that track only see pic 2
The mixer will reflect your view.

Note I am working with an all midi style here for simplicity that’s why all text in the mixer tracks are yellow , but you can of course use realtracks on any track.
You will only be able to use your Kontakt to replace realtracks that have midi transcription for the real tracks.
But why would you want to if you like the sound of the realtrack.

To edit or set up your inserted Kontakt at a later date you can get access to the interface by bringing up the plugins window and choosing the track on the left.
Its easier than it reads!
Mike




Attachments
1 default s.jpg

kontakt.jpg




Edited by Mike Head (06/22/19 04:42 PM)
Edit Reason: extra info on realtracks
_________________________
BIAB2019,UltraPlus, Asus N55S,W10/64,Akai EIEpro,
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#542345 - 06/22/19 09:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/24/10
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Grem Offline
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Mike Head, very good explanation. Thanks.

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#547421 - 07/30/19 08:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? [Re: Mike Head]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 189
NigelSpiers Offline
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Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 189
Hi Mike,

I have been following this thread because I also wanted to try MIDI instead of just Real Tracks.

I am most impressed with your recommended Coolsoft and Timbre of Heaven Font solution - nice sounds - thanks.

However I'm testing it with a mixed Real Tracks and Midi BIAB Style called:

=ARET_BE.STY

and the MIDI instruments are now way out of time with the real tracks (they were previously in time using Coyote Synth).

Any suggestions?

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel

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