You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#542059 - 06/20/19 05:34 PM [RealBand] Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks?
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
I asked this question twice in another thread but didn't get an answer from anyone, so I decided to ask this question as a new post in this forum. My question is as follows:

Why doesn't RB multitask when it is generating multiple tracks for a song? If I select a Style with four instruments (elec. guitar, acoustic guitar, bass guitar, and drums), why doesn't RB assign the generation of the track for each instrument to a different core of my PC's Quad core processor? This would speed up the track generation process by a factor of four and make RB much more appealing and productive.

If I were to ask Format Factory to convert four .WAV files to four .MP3 files, it will convert all four of those files at the same time. RB should be able to do the same thing, shouldn't it? Or is there some underlying reason why it can't? After all, my understanding is that RB was first released in 2008, which is around the same year that my Quad Core PC was built. Plus, multitasking has been part of the Windows OS for much longer than that.
_________________________
BiaB 2020 Win UltraPAK Build 713, RB 2020, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (dual boot with Win 7 64-bit), Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD (boot) & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

Top
#542264 - 06/21/19 04:42 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19827
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19827
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
RB is really PT (Powertracks) at its core.
It is basically PT with BiaB features added.

And PT has been around since the 90's .. still 32 bit and with its caveats.

Some of us have been asking/pining/whining/wishing for a 64 bit RB/PT update with these type of features for a while now.
So far no luck.

/I don't think multitask was the right term, but I get what you mean
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

Top
#542266 - 06/21/19 05:08 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: rharv]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Thanks, rharv, for replying to my post and for sharing that info. Considering RB's indirect 90s origins, it makes sense now to me why it doesn't multitask. But it sure would be nice if it did anyway!! Thanks again!
_________________________
BiaB 2020 Win UltraPAK Build 713, RB 2020, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (dual boot with Win 7 64-bit), Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD (boot) & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

Top
#542269 - 06/21/19 05:58 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19827
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19827
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
In this thread you keep saying multitask when I think you mean more like multithread .. which you used in other posts
But I think I get what you mean
smile
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

Top
#542274 - 06/21/19 06:51 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: rharv]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
You are correct, rharv! I do mean multi-threading. Thanks for pointing that out. It's been over fifteen years since I left the research/engineering environment I use to work in where such terms were commonly used, so my memory of the differences between multi-threading and multitasking is a bit foggy. The following points clarify their differences:

Key Differences Between Multitasking and Multithreading in OS

1. The basic difference between multitasking and multithreading is that in multitasking, the system allows executing multiple programs and tasks at the same time, whereas, in multithreading, the system executes multiple threads of the same or different processes at the same time.

2. In multitasking CPU has to switch between multiple programs so that it appears that multiple programs are running simultaneously. On other hands, in multithreading CPU has to switch between multiple threads to make it appear that all threads are running simultaneously.

3. Multitasking allocates separate memory and resources for each process/program whereas, in multithreading threads belonging to the same process shares the same memory and resources as that of the process.

(From the following website: https://www.quora.com/What-is-difference-between-multithreading-and-multitasking)
_________________________
BiaB 2020 Win UltraPAK Build 713, RB 2020, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (dual boot with Win 7 64-bit), Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD (boot) & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

Top
#542395 - 06/22/19 02:58 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5991
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5991
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Some developers call the feature core load balancing or core scaling. There is some discussion among developers if it is a feature better handled by individual programs, the computer operating system or by hardware (cpu and supporting chipset).

Beside considering the aging 32 bit infrastructure RealBand uses, an argument can be made that a single thread program like RealBand is more resource tolerant than a multi thread program. While many computers use multi core cpus Intel continues to make, sell and ship single core Pentium and Atom cpus.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (721) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 1909, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 1803, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#542506 - 06/23/19 11:33 AM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Some developers call the feature core load balancing or core scaling. There is some discussion among developers if it is a feature better handled by individual programs, the computer operating system or by hardware (cpu and supporting chipset).

Beside considering the aging 32 bit infrastructure RealBand uses, an argument can be made that a single thread program like RealBand is more resource tolerant than a multi thread program.

I think that's a valid argument, Jim, and may explain why RB doesn't multi-thread. To me, it would be worse for RB to be forced to start accessing the HD for one or more of the tracks it is generating in a multi-threaded scenario then for RB to just plow through them one at a time without accessing the HD. Of course, this wouldn't be a problem if the main drive in the computer is an SSD rather than an HD.
_________________________
BiaB 2020 Win UltraPAK Build 713, RB 2020, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (dual boot with Win 7 64-bit), Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD (boot) & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

Top
#542519 - 06/23/19 01:02 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5991
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5991
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
One approach I believe Pipeline suggested in other threads is to load RealTracks into computer ram whenever a RealTrack title is first loaded into an empty track. Ram is typically faster and more accessible than a storage drive. Some people worry about how much ram would be used but it is surprising how efficient RealBand is with memory. What size is your song project SEQ file? How long in time and how many tracks does it contain?

RealTracks are stored as compressed files (either wma or mp4a I think) unless you have the Audiophile edition. To save regeneration time some users have converted all their compressed files to uncompressed files (wav or aif)to eliminate conversion and reduce load times. Both Band-in-a-Box and RealBand will load an uncompressed file whenever both compressed and uncompressed choices are available.

I realize this expectation is unrealistic from a marketing and sales viewpoint but I would LOVE IT if PG Music suspended adding new features for a year and just concentrated on fixing known deficiencies to make their products more reliable and stable. Band-in-a-Box, RealBand, the plugin and the associated content are amazing products but there are A LOT of loose ends.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (721) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 1909, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 1803, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#542554 - 06/23/19 10:16 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Those are great suggestions, Jim. I'll have to keep them in mind.

I remember reading a post a while back (I can't remember which forum it was in) that also expressed the same desire for PG Music to suspend adding new features for a year and just concentrate on fixing known deficiencies. It may have been your post, but I'm not sure. I would love to see PG Music do this, too, but you're probably right about it being an unrealistic expectation. Maybe they would consider doing this if users would start referring to all those deficiency fixes as desirable features and mentioned them as such in the wish list forums. Just a thought . . .
_________________________
BiaB 2020 Win UltraPAK Build 713, RB 2020, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (dual boot with Win 7 64-bit), Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD (boot) & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

Top
#542610 - 06/24/19 12:18 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
muzikluver Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/17/18
Posts: 232
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
I realize this expectation is unrealistic from a marketing and sales viewpoint but I would LOVE IT if PG Music suspended adding new features for a year and just concentrated on fixing known deficiencies to make their products more reliable and stable. Band-in-a-Box, RealBand, the plugin and the associated content are amazing products but there are A LOT of loose ends.

I have another thought about this. Perhaps a more realistic expectation would be for us to prod PG Music to reduce their "new features" efforts by 50% and to redirect those reduced efforts towards fixing known deficiencies. That would be a win-win situation for both PG Music and its users.
_________________________
BiaB 2020 Win UltraPAK Build 713, RB 2020, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (dual boot with Win 7 64-bit), Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD (boot) & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V

Top
#542613 - 06/24/19 12:39 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 1848
Loc: Ireland
musiclover Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 1848
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: muzikluver
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
I realize this expectation is unrealistic from a marketing and sales viewpoint but I would LOVE IT if PG Music suspended adding new features for a year and just concentrated on fixing known deficiencies to make their products more reliable and stable. Band-in-a-Box, RealBand, the plugin and the associated content are amazing products but there are A LOT of loose ends.

I have another thought about this. Perhaps a more realistic expectation would be for us to prod PG Music to reduce their "new features" efforts by 50% and to redirect those reduced efforts towards fixing known deficiencies. That would be a win-win situation for both PG Music and its users.


No way, only 25 new features every year instead of 50, we can't have that, I need my 50 new features every year, and so far PG has not let me down.

smile
_________________________
Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 7 (32bit) and 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro,Band in a Box 2019, Cubase 5 and Cubase elements 9

Top
#542617 - 06/24/19 01:09 PM [RealBand] Re: Why doesn't RB multitask when generating tracks? [Re: muzikluver]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5991
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5991
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
While some existing users maybe content with existing content and feature set that's not true for all existing users.

New Windows versions are usually released somewhere between the last Thursday in November (American Thanksgiving)and the second week of December. Even though I crave reliability and stability I'm as giddy as everyone else as I discover what's new with each release. It sure seems a lot like early Christmas presents each year.

Most non users have little to no awareness of (1) how good the audio content is and (2) how capable and powerful the programs are. I don't want to say Band-in-a-Box is overlooked because it's not. The problem runs deeper than that. More often than not non users are aware of Band-in-a-Box but choose to ignore it. They tried it back in the day and have NO IDEA how much it's changed.

The release of 64 bit and the plugin are helping overcome the preconceived notions enough for people to give it a try. PG Music having a presence at NAMM and the European music fair helps too.

Unfortunately I believe it will take five years of sustained effort to overcome the negative bias.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (721) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 1909, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 1803, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top


PG Music News
RealBand 2020 for Windows Updated Harmonies Feature!

The latest RealBand 2020 Update includes enhancements to the harmonies feature, improvements for audio recording, and more!

Click here to review and download this free update patch (build 4).

Video: Band-in-a-Box® - Xtra Styles PAK 9 Overview & Demos

Xtra Styles PAK 9 includes 200 NEW RealStyles for Rock-Pop, Jazz, Country, and Folk & Beyond!

There are 50 new RealStyles for each genre, with MultiStyles included in each genre too!

Learn more about loading and using Xtra Styles PAK 9 in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 and listen to the demos for the 200 new RealStyles in Xtra Styles PAK 9 with our latest video: Band-in-a-Box® - Xtra Styles PAK 9: Overview & Demos.

Add Xtra Styles PAK 9 to your band for just $29 until June 30th! Order here.

Windows user? Click here for Windows purchase links and details.

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2020 Updated!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2020 has been updated with a small Free Update Patch that can be downloaded here.

Video: Band-in-a-Box® - Loops-with-Style PAK 2 Overview & Demos

Loops-with-Style PAK 2 is packed with 100 NEW Loops & 50 NEW Styles, including new gospel & folk categories!

Use these new Styles and Loops directly in your Band-in-a-Box® songs to access all their B substyle loops, or load these acidized loops directly into your DAW that supports acid info!

See how easy it is to load and use these Loops in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 and listen to the demos for these new Loops & Styles when you watch our latest video: Band-in-a-Box® - Loops-with-Style PAK 2 Overview & Demos.

Add Loops-with-Style PAK 2 today for just $19! Learn more and purchase here.

Haven't purchased Loops-with-Styles yet? Get the entire collection for only $29 when you bundle Loops-with-Style PAK 1 & Loops-with-Style PAK 2 for only $29! That's 100 Styles and 200 Loops for Band-in-a-Box® for just $29! Order now.

Mac user? Click here for Mac purchase links and details.

NEW Add-ons for Band-in-a-Box® 2020 - Xtra Styles PAK 9 & Loops-with-Style PAK 2!

We're delighted to be adding 200 GROUNDBREAKING RealStyles to the Band-in-a-Box® collection with Xtra Styles PAK 9!

Our new Rock-Pop additions include neo soul with vocals, classic ska with a horn section, a psychedelic sixties pop ballad, heavier action-scene cinematic metal, post-punk folk rock, six-substyle gospel pop MultiStyle with vocals, and more!

With the latest Jazz Xtra Styles, we've added everything from quarter-feel jazz blues to New Orleans Gospel to jazzy disco funk and gentle bossa folk pop, and more! We've also included a brand-new (huge!) ten-substyle "changes" jazz swing MultiStyle with three different soloist options!

The newest Country RealTracks are a real treat! We've fused folk and Americana instruments with the country sounds you know and love: ethereal and songwriter country ballads, a country rock march, country pop with layered cellos, a country soul groove, and much, much more! The included six-substyle summertime country pop MultiStyle will help you create your perfect summertime hit!

Plus, we've added to our Folk & Beyond collection with our Xtra Styles PAK 9 release! There are 50 fresh new styles, including a Cajun jaw harp boogie, cinematic folk with strings, a modern Celtic folk reel, a gentle three-guitar folk ballad, delta blues with shaker - the list goes on! Add Folk & Beyond 2 and you'll also receive a brand-new eight-part mountain folk MultiStyle!

There are 50 new RealStyles in each genre - get them ALL for only $29 until June 30th! Learn more, listen to demos and order here.

But wait... there's MORE!

We've also rolled out 50 NEW Styles and 100 NEW Loops in Loops-with-Style PAK 2!
Use these new Styles and Loops directly in your Band-in-a-Box® songs to access all their B substyle loops, or load these acidized loops directly into your DAW that supports acid info! Genres include Electronic, Funk, Hip Hop, Jazz, Pop, R&B, Rock, World, plus we're introducing two new genre categories - Gospel and Folk!

Add Loops-with-Style PAK 2 today for just $19! Learn more and purchase here.

Haven't purchased Loops-with-Styles yet? Get the entire collection for only $29 when you bundle Loops-with-Style PAK 1 & Loops-with-Style PAK 2 for only $29! That's 100 Styles and 200 Loops for Band-in-a-Box® for just $29! Order now.

Mac User? Click here for Mac details and purchase links.

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows is Xtra Ready!

We never stop! The latest free patch update for Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows readies the program for the just-launched Xtra Styles PAK 9 (on sale until June 30th - learn more here)!

Update to build 721 and you'll see that we've improved the step-advancing notes display, updated the key command criteria for looping bars from the chordsheet, fixed email client integration, and more.

If you are a Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows user, you'll definitely want to update to the latest free patch update!

Learn more about Band-in-a-Box® 2020 build 721 for Windows and download it here.

#TBT Band-in-a-Box Finds!

I don't know about everyone here, but now that I've settled in to our "new normal" I've taken to rearranging and dusting off many things in order to keep busy and productive!

I'm picking up old hobbies, picking up clutter around the house, and as it turns out - finding forgotten picks!

We snagged these gems many, many, many years ago after The NAMM Show one winter. Check out the old Band-in-a-Box logo! Click here...

Have any of you come across something nostalgic like this these days? Let's see it!
(remember the first Audiophile version?!)

-Callie
Team Marketing

Forum Stats
32187 Members
65 Forums
64380 Topics
545842 Posts

Max Online: 2537 @ 01/19/20 07:09 AM
Newest Members
C_Shealy, Drblues, praffulgoel, digi, George_H

32187 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
MarioD 199
Pipeline 177
VideoTrack 161
Matt Finley 136
Janice & Bud 121
floyd jane 112
Scott C 97
BlueAttitude 97
Rustyspoon# 96
rayc 96
Today's Birthdays
Cole Yee