You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#545915 - 07/18/19 12:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018!
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
After not having used Biab for a long time, I started using it on and off again since version 2012 and buying all the updates. I have 2018 now. Midi with good Kontakt instruments sounds killer. (It does)

Biab knows a lot of chords, but doesn’t play them correctly. It’s been like this since I started using it in the nineties. Realizing this hasn’t changed despite all the features and updates, makes me sad.
After checking over and over again, I came to this conclusion
(Turned off and on and off again natural arrangement and a lot of other features. But these settings do not really affect the results)


Biab does know
Difference between maj7, dom, minor7
Cm#5
C13+

Biab doesn’t know
CMaj7#5, instead it plays C7#5!
CmMAJ7, plays m7 (what about Chelsea Bridge, Nightlake...)
C7SUSb9, plays natural 9th: useful for all things ECM and Marsalis Hardbop
C7#9, thé Blues chord, Goodbye Pork Pie Hat, Beauty & the Beast (Wayne Shorter)
C7#9b13, an alternative to the C7b9, much more dissonance, cool
C7b9, Every standard without much exception. Your tone deaf neighbour plays natural 9
C7#11b13 biab plays 4 and natural 6
C13b9, the Caravan chord, and a staple chord for going to major chord a fourth up.
C7b9b13 thé altered chord every bopper uses.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#546007 - 07/19/19 04:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 6370
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 6370
Loc: Chicago
I used to think alot about what you are reporting and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make BIAB play "exactly" what I thought I wanted. I remember discovering that BIAB was likely not playing what I was telling it, even when I wrote out the midi notes. BIAB was creating accompaniment based on what it was capable of doing. It used to bother me and that consumed a lot of my creative energy in BIAB.

Back at that time I also discovered that my ears where simply not good enough to really hear that b9 or #11 in a complex chord with all the band playing. But what I was hearing from BIAB generally sounded pretty darn good.

So I started looking at other tools to help me hear and play chords with extensions when I needed them. I discovered a other notation and Vsti software which did permit me to incorporate these chords into my music arrangements - just not in BIAB. I still use BIAB for the heavy lifting but when I simply need to play/hear something special and specific I have other tools. I don't fret about this anymore.

Thanks for bringing up this topic and for the memories.

Dan

_________________________
Dan
BIAB2019
BIAB User Map
SoundCloud


Top
#546010 - 07/19/19 04:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16262
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16262
Loc: Australia
Dzjang,

Another factor to consider is that if using Realtracks, it's possible that the RT artist has not recorded particular chords and so BIAB substitutes.

I've found that generally the MIDI generation of chords is fine but sometimes the RT generations can be limited. The Jazz Realtracks usually seem to have all chords.

Also, I notice that the heading of your post is about the "bass" playing incorrectly whereas the body of you post seems to be more about chords. Is the chord problem the primary concern?

Regards,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#546044 - 07/20/19 03:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Thx @musicstudent and @noel96

It’s about bass interpreting the chords. I mainly play piano and don’t use the piano as accompaniment, just drums and bass, really.


As with Musicstudent, I began getting more and more into sophisticated stuff and it just struck me. On the other hand, a lot of the chords that Biab seems to ignore where already played in the days of Ellington and Parker. Let alone Mingus or Monk. It’s not about being sophisticated like Joshua Redman or Ambrose Akinmusire, just relatively simple jazz, but with some refinement.

Now that i start getting more into Wayne Shorter, Ecm and ... well... jazz after 1958, roughly, I feel sad. Sad, because my long time musical partner, Band in a Box, is tone deaf and won’t be able to help me improve my playing.

Thx for the replies,
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#546055 - 07/20/19 05:23 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 2922
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 2922
Loc: Ontario, Canada
If you want the bass to play a specific note, have you tried using a "/" chord?
Bb/C for example to force it to play a 'C'?
_________________________
Dave

Blue Attitude Website

Top
#546061 - 07/20/19 06:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 6370
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 6370
Loc: Chicago
Ya, I now see the miss match in title and content. Slash (/) chords to play bass notes over a chord have been a hot topic here for years. These have improved over time.

Are you interested in looking outside BIAB for playing chord extensions? Have you looked at EZKeys?

Dan
_________________________
Dan
BIAB2019
BIAB User Map
SoundCloud


Top
#546066 - 07/20/19 07:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Band in box treats slash chords like this:
Bb/C (C7sus 4, in fact): C is the root, 5th is the third of the Bb major triad, in this case it plays C and D which is C2 and not C7sus. So, alas, no solution here.

If you want a real Bb13b9 sound from your band you could write G/Bb. The bass player already knows you’re emphasizing b9 and natural 13. Being the sophisticated person he is, the bass player will definitely also play the dom7th, which is Ab! The most used slash chords are known.
But in Biab, the bass will mostly play the notes Bb, D and B (or Cb). This sounds weak, because you miss the bass playing the 5th or the 7th.

I believe we -as users- are always looking to find ways to improve the performance of biab. In fact, it should be the programmers, pgmusic, who should make it easy for us. We shouldn’t be the ones to try and make things work. You and me have paid our share.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#546069 - 07/20/19 07:23 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4913
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4913
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Are you using MIDI or Real Tracks?
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#546073 - 07/20/19 08:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Hello

I am using midi. In my opinion, with all the nice vst’s midi is the way to go.

Best regards
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#546081 - 07/20/19 09:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 13129
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 13129
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Dzjang
Hello

I am using midi. In my opinion, with all the nice vst’s midi is the way to go.

Best regards


Same here!

As you well know you can change the voicing very easily in MIDI. I do this a lot. Sometimes I start with a triad and add my own extensions. Time consuming, yes, but well worth it in the long run, at least for me. YMMV
_________________________
Son "When I grow up I want to be a musician". Mom "son, choose one or the other, you can't be both"!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#546083 - 07/20/19 09:23 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 113
Loc: Europe
Cool, MarioD, I tend to do the same, but it is really sad, isn’t it? It defies the purpose of an arranger...

Love the little jokes underneath your post.:)
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#546133 - 07/20/19 05:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: incorrect bass playing in Biab. Even in version 2018! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16262
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16262
Loc: Australia
Hi again.

When you say...

Quote:
Bb/C (C7sus 4, in fact): C is the root, 5th is the third of the Bb major triad, in this case it plays C and D which is C2 and not C7sus. So, alas, no solution here.


I thought it wise to clarify that BIAB is actually playing what you want.

Bb/C = C9sus4 or C11 and not C7sus4. This is because the D in Bb is the 9th in the C scale. Arguably the D could be a 2nd in C, as you correctly indicate, but since it's a couple of octaves away from the bass note, it's usually referred to as a 9th.

I cannot think of a way to use slash chords with simple majors or minors to get an X7sus4 chord.

C7sus4 = C-F-G-Bb

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top


PG Music News
"Find-a-Sub" RealTracks Feature - Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows

Freshen up your arrangements using the "Find-a-Sub" RealTracks feature added with Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows! This feature will help you find replacement RealTracks to use that are the most similar in sound, feel, tempo, and time signature for your song, sorted from best-to-worst!

Watch the explanation of this new feature when you jump to the subject in our Band-in-a-Box® 2020 New Features Video - click here to watch.

Or, read a detailed explanation of this new feature here.

Find the Perfect Style for Your Song with the Song Titles Browser Feature! #TipTuesday

Use the Song Titles Browser within the StylePicker if you're wanting to create a song in the feel of your favorite tune!

Give it a try - there are OVER 10,000 titles available to search with this feature!

If you've searched for a song, and no Style is suggested, click on the [Add...] button, you'll be able to post a request to add that title here!

Learn more about this feature within the "Style suggestion" topic here.

Share your Latest Band-in-a-Box® Song! #MusicMonday

Let's hear your latest Band-in-a-Box® song! Don't be shy - post it as a reply, or head to our User Showcase Forum to share it there!

New to Band-in-a-Box® and unsure of how to get started? We have a few resources to help you out!

Forums - packed with helpful program users!
Online Manual - specifically "Chapter 2: QuickStart" (Mac users, click here.)
Support Videos - sorted for easy searching! All of these are also shared on our YouTube Channel.

Of course, you can always reach out to our team directly too! www.pgmusic.com/contact.htm

The Band-in-a-Box® 2010 "Plug-in" Mode! #TBT

Did you know... the "Plug-in" mode was first launched with the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2010 for Windows!

With the 2010 "Plug-in" mode, Band-in-a-Box® opened as a small always-on-top window, and acted as a plug-in for your favorite DAW/sequencer, so that you could Drag-and-drop MIDI and audio (WAV) tracks from Band-in-a-Box to your favorite sequencer. You could work in your favorite sequencer, type a progression in Band-in-a-Box, and then simply drag the track from Band-in-a-Box to your sequencer’s track at the desired track and bar location.

To learn more about the new features that were launched with Band-in-a-Box® 2010 for Windows, check out Band-in-a-Box® 2010 "Plug-in" mode feature highlighted in our Band-in-a-Box® 2010 New Features Video at 10:50!

The "Plug-in" mode development didn't stop there - With Band-in-a-Box® 2019 we introduced the "Band-in-a-Box® VST DAW Plugin" which now works DIRECTLY INSIDE YOUR DAW (Cakewalk, Reaper, Pro Tools, PreSonus, etc.). Learn more about this feature here.

Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac - No Sound with MIDI?

Have you ever experienced a No Sound issue when you're working with MIDI in Band-in-a-Box® for Mac?

We have an online tutorial that can walk you through some troubleshooting to resolve this, but why not check out our newest YouTube video instead?

Click here to watch...

Of course, you can always reach out to us directly if you're in need of assistance with the program!

The Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Feature Browser! #TipTuesday

Don't underestimate the power of the Feature Browser added with Band-in-a-Box® 2020! This is a GREAT resource when you "know that you knew a feature" but just can't quite remember how to find it!

Simply click on the [?] at the top of the program (near the Mixer on the right) to launch this feature. From there, simply type in your query, or choose from the long list that appears in the Feature Browser window. If you're typing it in, you'll see that list change to only show the results that could fit your search - once you find what you're looking for, you can read more about it when you choose [Manual], if there's a video for the feature you can choose [Video] to view it, OR - if you don't need to read about the feature and just want to USE it, choose [Do it] and you're all set!

Watch this new feature in action when you jump to the subject in our New Features video:

10:19 - New Feature - Feature Browser

Give the Gift of Music with Band-in-a-Box®!

Did you wait too long to purchase flowers, a card, or book a restaurant for Valentine's Day? Or, maybe material gifts just aren't your thing?

Why not whip together a song in Band-in-a-Box? It's as easy as typing in some chords, choosing a style, and pressing play!

Or, take it a step further with the help of the Audio Chord Wizard and our StylePicker Song Titles Browser feature!
How???
-Use the Audio Chord Wizard to analyze their favorite song and provide you with the chord progression
-Take that chord progression and start a new project in Band-in-a-Box (choose "Erase the Audio WAV file in BB" | Enable style)
-Head to the StylePicker window, search for a style for that song using the "Song Titles Browser" Feature (top right)
-Choose from the list provided
-Press Play!

Like what you hear? Save it, and viola!

Forum Stats
31263 Members
63 Forums
62555 Topics
529360 Posts

Max Online: 2537 @ 01/19/20 07:09 AM
Newest Members
Klaus17, wizard of oz, Sajj, PhoenixPhyre, DThor

31262 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Pipeline 143
MarioD 133
BabuMusic 123
Janice & Bud 114
Rustyspoon# 99
rayc 98
floyd jane 98
VideoTrack 96
Noel96 92
Matt Finley 87
Today's Birthdays
Arrogate, ktnderran, Rudy39