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#546166 - 07/21/19 12:03 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it?
Registered: 05/02/19
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berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I purchased a RealTracks style set today and in the order, it states I can download the set but then on another line I can also download:

RealTracks Shots and Holds 2012 (Windows) 510

I have no idea what this is for and whether I need it or not.

Does anyone know?


Best regards
Bernt
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#546168 - 07/21/19 03:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
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Noel96 Offline
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Hi Bernt,

Shots and holds are playing techniques that one can use for playback. The usual method of setting them is by pressing F5 after clicking on the chordsheet.

A shot is where the notes play on the first beat of the chord and then rest until the next chord. A hold is where the notes play on the first beat and then hold (without rhythmical backing) until the next chord.

If you search help for SHOTS you will find some useful information to read through.

Regards,
Noel


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#546183 - 07/21/19 06:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
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Matt Finley Offline
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Incidentally, that file is an UPDATE of the many shorts and holds BIAB has. You have always has the ability to use them. And it's not the only update; there are more recent. Go here: https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windows_realtracks.htm

Within BIAB, I like the Help, Rests entry. It covers Rests, Shots and Holds. These three features give you tremendous power to help make music on a computer come alive. One of the topics is the keyboard shortcuts of one, two or three periods after a chord name. It's an alternative to using Alt+F5 as mentioned by Noel.
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile; [& 2020 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#546224 - 07/21/19 02:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
So did this not come with BIB 2019 ?

Or do I already have it installed?
I recently installed the build 628 patch.


Also, is this for ALL the styles or just for the style set I purchased?

Regards
Bernt
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#546256 - 07/21/19 08:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20073
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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All BIAB updates, both for versions of the program and RealTracks, are cumulative. You’ve probably long since had them.

The beauty of how PG Music handles updates is that it never hurts to install again when in doubt. The patch checks files by date and ignores a newer installed file than the file in the patch. Not to worry.
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile; [& 2020 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#546276 - 07/22/19 04:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Hi Bernt,

The usual method of setting them is by pressing F5 after clicking on the chordsheet.



I have checked this and watched the help video but there is no reference to any shots and holds on the bar settings screen F5.

???
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#546278 - 07/22/19 04:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
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Noel96 Offline
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My apologies, Berndt. I must have had a brain fade!

It's ALT+F5 -- this is the shortcut for "Chord settings".

The below PG Music video is around 2.5 mins long and explains shots, holds and rests. Although it's on an older version of BIAB, the principle is similar today.

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#546279 - 07/22/19 04:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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Bernt,

If you want a Rest, just enter a single period (.) after the chord (e.g. G7.)
If you want a Shot, enter two periods (..) after the chord
If you want a Hold, enter an ellipsis (three periods ...) after the chord (e.g. G7...)

Check out the Help by searching for "Rest, Shots and Holds". It explains in detail.

I think this is what you are referring to? Otherwise, please advise.


Attachments
2019-07-22_21-37-27.jpg


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#546372 - 07/22/19 05:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
O, that works. Thanks.

Now, when I do a hold or a shot in the last bar before the song repeats (with a 1/2 ending repeat), the repeat does not play.It is silent all the way.

Is that a bug?

Regards
Bernt
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#546390 - 07/22/19 05:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20073
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Originally Posted By: berntd
O, that works. Thanks.

(with a 1/2 ending repeat)
Is that a bug?

Regards
Bernt

Need more detail.
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile; [& 2020 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#546775 - 07/25/19 02:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
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Island Soul Offline
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I find the shots part of the shots and hold useless because it affects all the tracks when used and there is no way to make the shots work for only one track.
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#546776 - 07/25/19 02:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16490
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Hi Island Soul,

Use ALT+F5 (WIndows machines) to enter "Chord Settings" and then it's possible to set tracks so that only particular ones will play or not play. The Melody and Soloist tracks are the only two that cannot be controlled individually.

Regards,
Noel
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#546977 - 07/26/19 07:37 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley

Need more detail.


Ok, I am at it again and here are the details as it just does not work for me.

Here is a screen shot...

Bar 1,2,3 have Holds
Bar 4 has 2 shots
Bar 36 has a shot

This plays once but when it hits the 1/2nd ending repeat, it goes silent forever.
I am probably not using something correctly but what is it?

Edit: I noticed that it also does not work when I get rid of the shot at bar 36. I then DOES repeat but just plays Bb forever although the progress bar moves correctly across the chords from bar 5.




Attachments
12repeat silent problem1.jpg




Edited by berntd (07/26/19 07:44 PM)
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#546991 - 07/26/19 09:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Here is more detail yet.
Note how in the linear view, the repeated section is just grey for the most part, no chords present except in the last few bars.


Attachments
12repeat silent problem2.jpg

12repeat silent problem3.jpg


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#547005 - 07/26/19 11:28 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16490
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Hi Berntd.

That second image is very valuable information. Thank you for posting it.

I see that you have created the repeat by right-clicking on the chord sheet and making the repeat.

If you do a repeat this way, you will need to copy the chords into the grayed out bar section. This type of repeat is meant to be used in Fakesheet mode and is a way of contracting the music (usually for printout).

Here's a PG Music video that explains more about this mode. It's 15 minutes long and worth the watch.



Given the information in your first image, it's possible to set BIAB to repeat without having to use the method that you have. See the graphic below.

In BIAB a "Chorus" is defined as "once through the entire song". The "Start Bar" means "that bar where the chorus starts (i.e. after the introduction ends).

If you used CTRL+T to change to standard view instead of fullscreen view, these inputs are labeled and make a little more sense.

In BIAB, I always lay my songs out linearly as a once-through event. This gives me maximum control with how I want it to sound. The only time I use the repeats that you did is if I want to reduce my printout to a few pages as possible.

Hope this helps,
Noel


Attachments
berndt - repeats.JPG


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#547006 - 07/26/19 11:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
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Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 116
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Hi Noel

I did create the repeat in fake sheet mode as per the tutorial in the manual.

I am beginning to think that the program cannot do a 1/2 end repeat that is only one bar long.

I have experimented with it being 2 and more bars long and that seems to provide the expected results

Can you perhaps confirm that?

Regards
Bernt
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#547017 - 07/27/19 01:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: "RealTracks Shots and Holds" What is that and I need it? [Re: berntd]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16490
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Berntd,

Did you use the tutorial file mentioned in the manual? That is, "Miles1 Tutorial (no repeats yet)" that's found in bb\Documentation\Tutorials.

As you can see, with this file, and before the Repeat/Ending is generated, all the chords have been entered. It is after entering all the chords for the entire song that the repeat is created. The second image that you posted above seems to show that chords have not been entered in the second section -- this is the grayed out area and if chords were entered they would still be visible.

In case it's useful information, it's often a bit confusing to think of BIAB in terms of sheet music since sheet music is about condensing notation into as little space as possible for printing. I prefer to think of BIAB like a performance where it starts at the beginning and goes to the end. That is what I meant by the above when I said that I lay my songs out linearly from start to finish. I don't use codas, endings, etc.

When I get an opportunity, I will try setting up the repeats with a single bar for ending 1 and see what happens. Right at the moment, I'm not in a position to do this.

Regards,
Noel

P.S. One other thought, if the second section of chords were not entered, was the option "Generate (insert) new bars" activated before the "OK-Make Repeat" button was clicked on? If this option was not selected, it could result in something like the second image shows.
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