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#546407 - 07/22/19 07:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Bar freeze / ReGen time
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1591
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1591
Hi Foks.
One of the biggest drawbacks for me in BIAB is slow generation times...
With editing minor things there is always a looong regeneration gaps. While sitting, lets say for 2 hours, about 30 minutes is burned to "re-generation" sweat time.

And another thing. I noticed this long ago. Depending on bars count, the musical variation of real tracks changes. Meaning, if you add or subtract bars in other places than the one in focus, you might lose the desired phrasing of RealTrack, which you were happy with prior adding/removing bars at other places.

I wrote about this request some time ago, so this is sort of a roundup of things. Request is to freeze/unfreeze bars that you are "happy with" and only re-generate bars that you are working with, not touching the rest of the stuff. In theory it should save a lot of time, because you are only regenerating small part of composition. And by freezing parts of the song, you do not have to worry that some musical things will wonder away.

Thank you.

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#546414 - 07/22/19 09:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10478
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
With editing minor things there is always a looong regeneration gaps. While sitting, lets say for 2 hours, about 30 minutes is burned to "re-generation" sweat time.

I support the idea to be able to only regenerate certain bars (+1), but am I interpreting correctly that you have generation times measured in the hours?
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#546422 - 07/22/19 10:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 84
balbuena Offline
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Posts: 84
+++1

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#546424 - 07/22/19 11:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1591
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Posts: 1591
VideoTrack, thank you for supporting idea on partial bar freeze!

yes, it (re-generation) takes a lot of time out of my "creative" time. I like to experiment with progressions (and other features) in BIAB. As you know, to audition even a minor change, whole project is re-generated.
So figure, for each typed chord or character that takes lets say 3-5 seconds to input, there is a 10 or so seconds of wait time for regen.

P.S. My comp is 6 core / 32ram, nvme internal drive with Audiophile on it. Speed of the setup helps, but not significantly... And yes, "speed up regeneration" box is checked in BIAB. So the idea is... if you only regenerating-10-15% of the whole tune (while the rest is partially frozen), regeneration time would be much faster. Sort of getting two rabbits with one shot smile

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#546432 - 07/23/19 02:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for clarifying.

With fast generation enabled, my system generates virtually any song (say 3 choruses of 32 bars), using 5 RealTracks in around 5 to 8 seconds. With Speed Up disabled, it is still only a few seconds longer.

Something is seriously wrong if a song takes the time that you are indicating.

Out of respect I don't wish to high-jack your thread by changing the topic, but I wonder if others might also give an indication of their generation times.
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#546446 - 07/23/19 04:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4640
Pipeline Offline
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It would be good to have that in BB.
I know the BB Plugin still has a few issues that will be fixed and you maybe used to the workflow of BB but something you could try is
Guide: Using Multiple Biab Plugins this gives a lot more control to create what you need.
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Free Biab & BiabVST Chord Picker Tool

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#546450 - 07/23/19 05:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19780
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Oh yes, this is a popular request that I support strongly.

But Rustyspoon, Videotrack is right; something is seriously wrong with your setup.
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile; [& 2020 Mac MegaPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#546460 - 07/23/19 06:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1591
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Videotrack,
I am talking about cumulative time. If I input 80-100 changes per "sitting" especially when working on progression, generation takes quite a bite from my time. And the request doubles as bar freeze. Because if I add/remove bars and even if I "know" how it should sound, I still have to regenerate every step, to see if the phrasing of real tracks went away in other places... So in one session about 20-25% goes to regeneration times. I would say 8-10 sec. each pressing of regen button....

My main request here is "freezing certain/selected bars" and as by-product, it might shorten regeneration time.

Pipeline, thanks for the input. Interesting thought, but far away from my workflow.

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#546462 - 07/23/19 06:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10478
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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My workflow may be different to yours, but I still support the partial regeneration requirement. Incidentally, RealBand can do this.

+1, again.


_________________________
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#546464 - 07/23/19 07:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/27/03
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MarioD Offline
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A BIG +1, AGAIN
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#546490 - 07/23/19 10:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/25/12
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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+1
Should have been implemented long ago!

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#546503 - 07/23/19 11:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Videotrack,
I am talking about cumulative time. If I input 80-100 changes per "sitting" especially when working on progression, generation takes quite a bite from my time. And the request doubles as bar freeze. Because if I add/remove bars and even if I "know" how it should sound, I still have to regenerate every step, to see if the phrasing of real tracks went away in other places... So in one session about 20-25% goes to regeneration times. I would say 8-10 sec. each pressing of regen button....

...


Oh, that's better. Thanks for clarifying.
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile; [& 2020 Mac MegaPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#548628 - 08/08/19 08:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7347
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Two easy solutions to this.

1. If you have a complex song that you're experimenting with use a midi style to start. Midi generates basically instantly. Once you've gotten the arrangement down, the song form, added or modified a tag ending, whatever it is you want to do to the song then go back to your RT style. Or...

2. Use the right tool for the job which is Real Band. Why do you think RB is included in the first place? This is one of the exact reasons RB was created to be able to regen parts of a song, parts of a single track, use multiple tracks to create comps of the same part using different versions of the same instrument or using a different style per track if you want.

It's the same reason a carpenter has a Skill saw, a table saw, a reciprocating saw and who knows what other saws. Different tools for different jobs. There is no one "universal tool" that does it all in music production or anything else. RB does everything you've asked about plus gives you 48 tracks to experiment with. That should be enough.

Bob
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#549333 - 08/14/19 06:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Rustyspoon# Offline
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Jazzmammal... You are correct there are many "different tools"... And I am requesting the one that will work for me, and that I believe should be available in the BIAB workflow.

You are right, there are many workaround "approaches", however I do not see RB as a part of my future. I believe RB was a big mistake that was not corrected in time, but that is another topic.

Not trying to sound negative here, but trying to look at it realistically. I do like what I can do with BIAB, but I believe certain things would make it a much better program. And...I am hopeful that at least some percentage of items in the BIAB "Wishlist" will be implemented in the future release(s).


My request still stands smile

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#549348 - 08/14/19 07:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5513
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Loc: South Carolina
<< My request still stands >>

Plus 1 from me too. It's a request that's been around a long time and asked by many.

However, "Not trying to sound negative here, but trying to look at it realistically," the reality is what you want to do is easy to do in BIAB as the program is now, the methods are not workarounds but how the program was structured many years ago prior to the the existence of huge amount of 'free tracks' and DAW editing power that's common today. It's how song construction is done in BIAB and based loosely on studio multi track practices of that time period.

Many, if not most, long time, seasoned users of BIAB have posted and still post today that BIAB is limited to 7 channels and a single audio track. The truth is one can construct and render a song totally within BIAB of 70 instruments and 20 tracks in less than 10 minutes including multiple audio tracks. Those are true but not firm numbers. You could double that count or half it in a few more minutes. I estimate 97% of RealStyles follow that same 7/1 structure with only a few having the medley instruments feature included in the Style or contain Artist performance tracks.

In the 2019 version, PGMusic programmers added some additional Styles and re-introduced some features and added a few features to introduce and re-introduce the concept to all BIAB users. I don't think anyone has posted a song using the method in the User's Showcase. I've been doing the songs I've posted for the last few years utilizing these features and completing my songs solely within a single BIAB project.

The issue for you and most others is the 'wish' itself not the capability of BIAB. Your statement;"I am requesting the one that will work for me, and that I believe should be available in the BIAB workflow." is simply requesting BIAB adapt to your personal workflow rather than you adapt your workflow to BIAB's existing capabilities.

To date, your wish is the prevailing mindset of BIAB users, new and old alike. The existing way, (strongly established and far superior to what you and others are 'wishing' for) hasn't gained any traction at all, not being widely known or accepted.

I'd like to see some at least try to use BIAB as designed, but the motivation isn't there so I'll go with the majority and support your request.
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#549352 - 08/14/19 08:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10478
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Posts: 10478
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I've already supported, but I believe this still needs a push, so another +1 from me.
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#549468 - 08/14/19 04:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1591
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Posts: 1591
Charlie,
I get what you are saying. Sure, I can output WAV files for every track with each "change" to preserve certain elements and slice and dice them in DAW...To me it is mostly about the time... which unfortunately I have too little for my music adventures.

I do realize, that BIAB has amazing potential as it stands and is packed with features. However, BIAB is a "SOFTware" and not hardware, so there is always "room" for improvement in workflow and other good things smile

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PG Music News
SongPicker Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac!

The Band-in-a-Box® SongPicker has been enhanced with our newest 2020 version!

The SongPicker now builds faster for large song lists (>30K and up to 60,000 songs). The [Song] button (or the [Open] button) now has 3 additional menu items to launch the SongPicker.

- Open SongPicker in Current Folder: This opens the SongPicker in the current folder of the last loaded song.
- Open SongPicker in Home Folder: This opens the SongPicker in the home folder, which is Applications/Band-in-a-Box/MySongs or as set in the SongPicker.
- Open SongPicker in Favorite Folder: This launches the Favorite Folder dialog which allows you to choose any previously used folder where a song was loaded from, and then open the SongPicker in that folder.

In the SongPicker, there is a new “Open in Home” option. If this is enabled, the SongPicker will always open in the home folder instead of the current folder when you press the default [Song] button to open the SongPicker.

Searching for songs matching a chord progression or melody has been enhanced. There are three new checkboxes: "Key must match exactly," "Chord Extension must match exactly", and "Time Signature must match."

Click here to jump to the SongPicker subject in our New Features video to learn more. (32:11)

(read more about this feature in our Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Mac Online Upgrade Manual.)

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Have a tip of your own to share? Feel free to post it to our Tips & Tricks forum!

Thanks for sharing, Pipeline!

New "Feature Browser" in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac

Band-in-a-Box® has so many features! We add 50 new ones with every version, so you may have forgotten all the different things that Band-in-a-Box® can do. Fortunately, with the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2020 we've solved this issue by added a Feature Browser!

How does it work? Access this feature by clicking on the [?] button on the main screen of the program or pressing the / Enter keys on the Chord Sheet. This dialog lists many features of the program and allows you to browse them, find the feature by text filter, read descriptions about the feature, find how to launch the feature, access to the online information or video about the feature, and do more.

Examples of a few situations where this feature is helpful:

-You know about a feature but don't know how to find it. Just type a part of the feature name and you'll see the hotkeys, menu, and toolbar info on how to launch it. For example, if you want to launch the Chord Builder but don’t know how to do it, type "builder" in the text filter, and you will quickly find the Chord Builder.
-You are exploring available features for Band-in-a-Box. For example, if you are a guitar player, type the word "guitar" and you'll see what's available.
-You prefer "one-stop-shopping" and would like to launch features from the same dialog.
-You are learning the program and like to browse or watch videos about topics you're interested in.
You can't remember hotkeys and want to review them.

Watch this new feature in action when you jump to the subject in our New Features video: 10:20 - New Feature - Feature Browser

(read more about this feature in our Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Mac Online Upgrade Manual.)

Videos - 202 New RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac®!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2020, we've added 202 new RealTracks! These include great Americana, Gospel Vocals, new Blues, Country Pollwinners, Bossa Flute/Horn sections, Jazz Blues and Rhythm Changes, British and Hazy '60s guitars, Modern Funk, Island Grooves with steel drum and marimba, Singer-Songwriter, and more!

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Want to watch even more RealTracks content? Check out this video, which is the "extended version" video demonstrating the newest RealTracks Sets 329-352 - click here to watch.

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Patch Update Ready! (Build 321)

Still using Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac? There's a new FREE patch available! Click here to read more and download this free patch update (Build 321).

Summary of changes for build 321 (Mar 23, 2020):
Fixed: Song title will be changed to ? when re-saving if it previously contained international characters like é or ©.
Fixed: Event List window is using wrong colors.
Fixed: Some song titles are blank in the Song Titles dialog.
Fixed: Clicking on Print Chords from the chord sheet context menu causes application to crash.
Fixed: On some computers the application will crash when opening the Piano Roll window.
Fixed: Gender Param. setting was ignored in the Generate Synthetic Vocal dialog.
Fixed: Vibrato Intensity setting was ignored in the Generate Synthetic Vocal dialog.
Fixed: Pitch shifting setting was ignored in the Generate Synthetic Vocal dialog.
Fixed: There is no option to cancel when generating a synthetic vocal.
Fixed: The Vocal Synth feature would freeze for various operating systems.
Fixed: Language selection for the Vocal Synth generator was wrong.
Fixed: Possible crash when using the Audio Chord Wizard.
Fixed: Jazz Up or Jazz Down was not undoable.
Fixed: Dropping video files onto the Video RealTracks dialog failed, displaying flash message reporting that the video format was not compatible.
Fixed: The copyright button in the Print Options dialog did not do anything.
Fixed: Soloist > Edit Soloist Track > Remove Harmony would display popup message "not implemented".
Fixed: Soloist > Edit Soloist Track > Convert Harmony to Soloist Track would also launch the Generate Chords and/or Melody dialog.
Fixed: Soloist > Edit Soloist Track > Auto-Rechannel to Guitar Display would also toggle Embellish Melody.
Fixed: Possible crash when opening Song Picker dialog.
Fixed: Edit > Song Form > Unfold does not remove the tag ending.
Fixed: Application crash when using Edit > Song Form > Unfold if song contains tag ending.
Fixed: Tracks are listed twice in the Load XML File dialog.
Fixed: The note name indicator in the Notation window was not displaying.
Fixed: "...NOT rendered successfully to disk” error when using "Export Song as M4A" or "Export Song as AIFF".
Fixed: "invalid integer" error when loading some ABC files.
Fixed: "There was an error converting” error when attempting to import compressed audio files (.m4a, .mp3, etc.)
Fixed: User is not asked to save their song after applying a harmony to Melody or Soloist track.
Fixed: The demo player might fail to play a local file.
Fixed: There should be a warning message when opening the Notation window if the notation fonts are not installed.
Fixed: If opening a song from an version 2017 or earlier, any Audio Chord Wizard bar lines might be offset.
Fixed: The Guitar window did not display the capo.
Improved: Guitar capo setting can be changed by right-clicking the fret position bar.
Fixed: The Chord Builder did not update position when clicking on a different bar in the chord sheet.
Fixed: Changing a custom track label had not option to Undo, and did not prompt user to save song.
Fixed: Importing an ABCNotation file would not include the key signature.
Fixed: ABC files only opening some chords.
Fixed: Problem storing minor keys.
Fixed: MusicXML files created by Band-in-a-Box cannot be loaded by Band-in-a-Box if song title contains & (ampersand).
Improved: More detailed bootup log.

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