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#557924 - 10/05/19 05:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
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#557929 - 10/05/19 06:33 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Matt Finley Offline
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Good examples.

Question on the first example link: In the third measure of the B part, the first example marked in red, I'm guessing that the error is BIAB thinking that the Bb half note in the bass clef carries the accidental over into beat four of the treble clef.

If it's music for one player, not a score of independently-played parts, some authors of music notation guidelines believe the accidental can carry between clefs to a note of the same pitch in the other clef, which this is. Still, I would prefer to see a flat or a cautionary accidental of a flat in the treble clef.
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#557935 - 10/05/19 07:21 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Question on the first example link: In the third measure of the B part, the first example marked in red, I'm guessing that the error is BIAB thinking that the Bb half note in the bass clef carries the accidental over into beat four of the treble clef.

Yes, I saw that and wondered the same thing. I agree that there's a possibility that the program identifies that the Bb has been handled for that specific note, but if that's the case, it should be shown as an accidental in the treble clef also.


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#557952 - 10/05/19 10:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 125
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
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@Matt and Videotrack

You are both right! In this case it doesn’t correspond to what I heard. Your reasoning, being that the accidental got carried over, is correct. And indeed confusing,

Thx to Videotrack for shaming me by adding a neat blue arrow with a subtle shadow on top of my chaotic writing, laugh

Thx a lot for clarifying!
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#561710 - 10/31/19 03:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 125
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
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Matt turned me on to the idea that Biab does play elaborate chords in Brazilian jazz. Lo and behold, styles like Janeiro do! Or at least, the piano does. Guitar and bass are only limited to bread and butter chords. There are clashes to be heard.

Investigating further has taught me this:
Midi only, spoken here!
1. Older styles: all instruments know only a limited number of bread and butter chords, no mMaj7, no b9, b13
2. Newer styles (Janeiro...): piano plays all the chords right. All other instruments play only limited number of chords right...
3. Self-made styles from midi are like Older styles: all the wrong notes in elaborate chords
Conclusion
*only the piano can -in some cases- play all the chords.
*there is an algorithm somewhere in Band in a Box that knows all the chords...
*...but it is only used for piano for some styles starting 2011 or so.

Now... if there is an algorithm that works, how can it be applied to bass, guitar and other instruments?
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#561767 - 10/31/19 09:51 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Dzjang,

You're bringing up some good points and really pinpointing some areas of improvement. I appreciate that and thank you for your thoughtfulness and dedication.

One question if I may, while acknowledging the limitations you've highlighted, if the limitations were fixed how would those corrections help the audio I hear? I'm asking because I'm trying to understand if the issues has more affect on notation or the audio playback.
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#561770 - 10/31/19 10:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 125
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
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Hi Jim

Thx for your kind remarks.

Audio-wise, I think this will prove to be a huge relief for some. As things are now, there are subtle and not so subtle clashes between bass and piano, piano and guitar or your interpretation as soloist and the accompaniment.

Thing is, most people won’t hear it as a mistake, but just a rubbing sensation that “something is wrong”, but you can’t put your finger on it.

On the other hand. If people use unaltered chords and mostly triads, there will be no real change. It’s for the speciall chords, mostly used in jazz, Joni Mitchell, Michael Franks, James Taylor and some alternative or indie Country or rock,

Thx

Dzjang
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Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#561789 - 10/31/19 01:58 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5809
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Dzjang,

Thank you for taking time to provide your considered response.

This was the sentence that most helped me to understand your point of view:
Quote:
Thing is, most people won’t hear it as a mistake, but just a rubbing sensation that “something is wrong”, but you can’t put your finger on it.


I have that "something's wrong" feeling more than once but have always discounted it. Invariably, when I get the feeling it is with an music exercise or song that I end up disliking and don't know why. Perhaps this dissonance between the instrument tracks is part of the answer.

You've definitely given me some ideas to think about.

Once again, thank you.
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#561798 - 10/31/19 02:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7363
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
I'm trying to understand if the issues has more affect on notation or the audio playback.


If it's in the notation, it's in the audio. If it isn't then that's a bug.

I totally appreciate wishing this gets cleaned up too but there are less and less of us who care. There was a recent thread asking about how Biab can be made to generate modern pop music. Very little of that has extended chords and neither does modern country.

15 years ago Biab was something like 70-75% jazz oriented. Then came the introduction of Real Tracks and that attracted tons of rock/country/folk guitarists and they requested all of that sort of stuff. Just look at all the guitar and related stringed instruments RT's now.

Electrics, acoustics,6 string, 12 string, steel string, nylon string, pedal steel, dobro, banjo, resonator, I can't even list them all. There's a bunch of accordians, bouzoukies and fiddles! There's tons of fiddles and pages and pages and pages of guitars. It's like 20 to 1 (or more) of those RT's vs new jazz RT's.

The RT's transformed the company by attracting all these guitar players. Midi can be good but one thing it's not good for is guitar and the guitar and related RT's sound awesome. I think they were surprised because the RT's started with a lot of jazz but that changed in a hurry. Great for PG and I'm happy for them but not so good for us jazzers.

Bob
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#561811 - 10/31/19 03:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5809
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
... snip I think they were surprised because the RT's started with a lot of jazz but that changed in a hurry. Great for PG and I'm happy for them but not so good for us jazzers. Bob


Bob, the thought above brought a smile to my face. RealTracks Set #1 has no name but includes pedal steel, tenor sax and acoustic guitar. Set # 2 is named "Country Ballad", 3 is "Swingin' Country", 4 is "Modern Country" and so on. It's not until set 7 that you encounter "Acoustic Jazz Bass and Rock Sax".

Judging from the RealTrack set names I'd say PG Music had an idea country and rock RealTracks would be more popular than jazz tracks. Of course as many users have discovered RealTracks named for one genre can be used in other genres.
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#561843 - 10/31/19 06:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Jazz lovers! Support this: Biab reads chords, but can only play 7 chords, please educate biab [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19807
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Jan (Dzjang) was kind enough to acknowledge my point that some of what he has carefully reported may not always be true and bears more examination, like the mMaj7. All white cats with blue eyes are deaf. Well, most are, but not every one.

Let me do the same and acknowledge that a great deal of what he has said is true and I don't mean to lose sight of any of that. I DO hear those 'clashes' and I DO think 'something is wrong'. But I also tend to overlook it, as this is pretty common in live jazz playing with both a guitar and a piano on the gig. I kind of enjoy it and as a jazz player am not put off by it. At the same time, I recognize someone using any style that is slightly jazzy but desiring a more 'straight' rendering could be confused and put off by the resulting sound. No question about it.

And the bass player is often the one I question, just as Jan said.

All this, like Natural Arrangement, involves algorithms we don't understand. We probably never will, as they are almost certainly proprietary. I can live with that, but some comment from the developers would be welcomed. In the meantime, we can keep making clear and respectful posts detailing the issues. When something crosses over into being likely a real bug, and we're pretty sure about that, then some of us can report it directly to the developers.
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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® for Mac Patch Updates Ready! (2019 & 2020)

We've JUST released FREE Updates for existing Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2019 and 2020 program users!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Update - Build 407
Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Update - Build 323

What do these include?

Summary of changes for Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Update - Build 407: (get it here)
Fixed: RealDrums Quick List was empty if launched from main toolbar.
Improved: Bootup time is faster.
Fixed: It is not possible to type ^ (caret symbol for pushes) in chordsheet if using an Italian keyboard layout.
Fixed: Opening songs from older versions might misinterpret song title as ?.
Fixed: Buttons in Custom toolbar are not draggable.
Fixed: The time signature button on the main toolbar did not do anything.
Fixed: A maximum of 1990 MIDI events are loaded from a song file into the Melody or Soloist track.
Fixed: RealDrums Quick List menu item did not do anything.
Fixed: Find a Sub for RealDrums menu item did not do anything.
Fixed: Various problems with localized versions.
Fixed: Some style demos for the newest RealTracks would not play.
Fixed: Song title will be changed to ? when re-saving if it previously contained international characters like é or ©.

DAW Plugin 2.5.18
Fixed: "Open Recent" opened file chooser dialog
Fixed: Unfold feature not working with some songs
Fixed: Choruses not resetting when playback is stopped in DAW
Fixed: Chord superscripts
Fixed: Clicking zoom many times will crash standalone plugin
Fixed: Undo removes all chords after opening a song
Fixed: Buzzing sound in Studio One
Fixed: Plugin determining chord accidentals now matches main program
Fixed: Removed alert menu when sync playing tracks that are not up-to-date (generated).
Fixed: Cancelling generate made song lose "dirty" state
Fixed: All selected tracks should drag from the plugin
Fixed: Shortcut file feature not working always working. Support was also added for pgshortc.txt files
Fixed: Double clicking grey area in chord sheet started playback
Fixed: Bar highlighting skipped last chorus when the start bar is greater than 1
Fixed: Right-click on bar should first launch popup menu
Fixed: Double clicking anywhere on a track should open its picker
Added: About to File Menu
Added: "year" to plugin name
Fixed: remove sync tempo button if already synced
Fixed: improve 2 finger scroll (too fast)

Summary of changes for Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Update - Build 323: (get it here)
Fixed: Bootup time is faster.
Fixed: It is not possible to type ^ (caret symbol for pushes) in chordsheet if using an Italian keyboard layout.
Fixed: Opening songs from older versions might misinterpret song title as ?.
Fixed: The time signature button on the main toolbar did not do anything.
Fixed: A maximum of 1990 MIDI events are loaded from a song file into the Melody or Soloist track.
Fixed: Various problems with localized versions.

#TBT Band-in-a-Box® 2017

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With that version, we redesigned the main screen GUI, added support for popular .SFZ sound format as well as PG Music’s Hi-Q sounds (sforzando SFZ Synth.), added Natural Arrangements options and Hi-Q Guitar RealCharts, applied many, many, many enhancements to the existing powerful program features, and more! Read all about Band-in-a-Box® 2017 here.

Now, three years later, we're thrilled to say that we're already done BETA testing, and weeks into the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac release! Of course, that means we're having a SALE on Upgrade packages, but only until April 30th!

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Dennis Esson:
RealTracks Set 144: Dixieland – Fast Soloists
RealTracks Set 178: Dixieland - Medium Soloists

Ian McDougall:
RealTracks Set 13: Older Jazz Swing Soloists
RealTracks Set 15: Mainstream Swing
RealTracks Set 17: Bossa
RealTracks Set 19: Jazz Ballad

Welcome to the Team David!

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You may have already noticed him - he's already made his appearance here on the Forums, chiming in with assistance and User Showcase Song Feedback.

Welcome to the team David!

Updated Song Titles Browser in Band-in-a-Box® 2020!

If you're looking for a Band-in-a-Box® Style in the feel of a familiar/popular song title, then the Song Titles Browser option in the Band-in-a-Box® StylePicker is the perfect feature for you!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2020, we’ve added 3,400 more song titles including requests from users, so there are now 14,000 titles to search from!

Just type in a familiar song title or artist name - once you have found the song, press the [OK - Find Matching Styles] button. This will take you to the StylePicker window with styles that best match the tempo, feel, and genre of the selected song title.

Didn't find the song you were searching for? Post your title request to our Wishlist forum: Songs to add to Band-in-a-Box Titles database - we think that the 3,400 new titles added with Version 2020 is proof that we're paying attention!

Learn more about the different features of the Band-in-a-Box® StylePicker here.

SongPicker Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac!

The Band-in-a-Box® SongPicker has been enhanced with our newest 2020 version!

The SongPicker now builds faster for large song lists (>30K and up to 60,000 songs). The [Song] button (or the [Open] button) now has 3 additional menu items to launch the SongPicker.

- Open SongPicker in Current Folder: This opens the SongPicker in the current folder of the last loaded song.
- Open SongPicker in Home Folder: This opens the SongPicker in the home folder, which is Applications/Band-in-a-Box/MySongs or as set in the SongPicker.
- Open SongPicker in Favorite Folder: This launches the Favorite Folder dialog which allows you to choose any previously used folder where a song was loaded from, and then open the SongPicker in that folder.

In the SongPicker, there is a new “Open in Home” option. If this is enabled, the SongPicker will always open in the home folder instead of the current folder when you press the default [Song] button to open the SongPicker.

Searching for songs matching a chord progression or melody has been enhanced. There are three new checkboxes: "Key must match exactly," "Chord Extension must match exactly", and "Time Signature must match."

Click here to jump to the SongPicker subject in our New Features video to learn more. (32:11)

(read more about this feature in our Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Mac Online Upgrade Manual.)

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