You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#546407 - 07/22/19 07:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Bar freeze / ReGen time
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Hi Foks.
One of the biggest drawbacks for me in BIAB is slow generation times...
With editing minor things there is always a looong regeneration gaps. While sitting, lets say for 2 hours, about 30 minutes is burned to "re-generation" sweat time.

And another thing. I noticed this long ago. Depending on bars count, the musical variation of real tracks changes. Meaning, if you add or subtract bars in other places than the one in focus, you might lose the desired phrasing of RealTrack, which you were happy with prior adding/removing bars at other places.

I wrote about this request some time ago, so this is sort of a roundup of things. Request is to freeze/unfreeze bars that you are "happy with" and only re-generate bars that you are working with, not touching the rest of the stuff. In theory it should save a lot of time, because you are only regenerating small part of composition. And by freezing parts of the song, you do not have to worry that some musical things will wonder away.

Thank you.

Top
#546414 - 07/22/19 09:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9807
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9807
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
With editing minor things there is always a looong regeneration gaps. While sitting, lets say for 2 hours, about 30 minutes is burned to "re-generation" sweat time.

I support the idea to be able to only regenerate certain bars (+1), but am I interpreting correctly that you have generation times measured in the hours?
_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#546422 - 07/22/19 10:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 80
balbuena Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 80
+++1

Top
#546424 - 07/22/19 11:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
VideoTrack, thank you for supporting idea on partial bar freeze!

yes, it (re-generation) takes a lot of time out of my "creative" time. I like to experiment with progressions (and other features) in BIAB. As you know, to audition even a minor change, whole project is re-generated.
So figure, for each typed chord or character that takes lets say 3-5 seconds to input, there is a 10 or so seconds of wait time for regen.

P.S. My comp is 6 core / 32ram, nvme internal drive with Audiophile on it. Speed of the setup helps, but not significantly... And yes, "speed up regeneration" box is checked in BIAB. So the idea is... if you only regenerating-10-15% of the whole tune (while the rest is partially frozen), regeneration time would be much faster. Sort of getting two rabbits with one shot smile

Top
#546432 - 07/23/19 02:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9807
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9807
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for clarifying.

With fast generation enabled, my system generates virtually any song (say 3 choruses of 32 bars), using 5 RealTracks in around 5 to 8 seconds. With Speed Up disabled, it is still only a few seconds longer.

Something is seriously wrong if a song takes the time that you are indicating.

Out of respect I don't wish to high-jack your thread by changing the topic, but I wonder if others might also give an indication of their generation times.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#546446 - 07/23/19 04:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4048
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 4048
It would be good to have that in BB.
I know the BB Plugin still has a few issues that will be fixed and you maybe used to the workflow of BB but something you could try is
Guide: Using Multiple Biab Plugins this gives a lot more control to create what you need.
_________________________
ReaTrak Integrate Biab & Plugin in Reaper
Free Biab & BiabVST Chord Picker Tool

Top
#546450 - 07/23/19 05:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19128
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19128
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Oh yes, this is a popular request that I support strongly.

But Rustyspoon, Videotrack is right; something is seriously wrong with your setup.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#546460 - 07/23/19 06:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Videotrack,
I am talking about cumulative time. If I input 80-100 changes per "sitting" especially when working on progression, generation takes quite a bite from my time. And the request doubles as bar freeze. Because if I add/remove bars and even if I "know" how it should sound, I still have to regenerate every step, to see if the phrasing of real tracks went away in other places... So in one session about 20-25% goes to regeneration times. I would say 8-10 sec. each pressing of regen button....

My main request here is "freezing certain/selected bars" and as by-product, it might shorten regeneration time.

Pipeline, thanks for the input. Interesting thought, but far away from my workflow.

Top
#546462 - 07/23/19 06:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9807
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9807
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
My workflow may be different to yours, but I still support the partial regeneration requirement. Incidentally, RealBand can do this.

+1, again.


_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#546464 - 07/23/19 07:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12598
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12598
Loc: Hamlin NY
A BIG +1, AGAIN
_________________________
Your brain is a wonderful thing. It works 24/7/365 right from birth until the day you fall in love.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#546490 - 07/23/19 10:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2576
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2576
+1
Should have been implemented long ago!

Top
#546503 - 07/23/19 11:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19128
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19128
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Videotrack,
I am talking about cumulative time. If I input 80-100 changes per "sitting" especially when working on progression, generation takes quite a bite from my time. And the request doubles as bar freeze. Because if I add/remove bars and even if I "know" how it should sound, I still have to regenerate every step, to see if the phrasing of real tracks went away in other places... So in one session about 20-25% goes to regeneration times. I would say 8-10 sec. each pressing of regen button....

...


Oh, that's better. Thanks for clarifying.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#548628 - 08/08/19 08:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7145
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7145
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Two easy solutions to this.

1. If you have a complex song that you're experimenting with use a midi style to start. Midi generates basically instantly. Once you've gotten the arrangement down, the song form, added or modified a tag ending, whatever it is you want to do to the song then go back to your RT style. Or...

2. Use the right tool for the job which is Real Band. Why do you think RB is included in the first place? This is one of the exact reasons RB was created to be able to regen parts of a song, parts of a single track, use multiple tracks to create comps of the same part using different versions of the same instrument or using a different style per track if you want.

It's the same reason a carpenter has a Skill saw, a table saw, a reciprocating saw and who knows what other saws. Different tools for different jobs. There is no one "universal tool" that does it all in music production or anything else. RB does everything you've asked about plus gives you 48 tracks to experiment with. That should be enough.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Top
#549333 - 08/14/19 06:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Jazzmammal... You are correct there are many "different tools"... And I am requesting the one that will work for me, and that I believe should be available in the BIAB workflow.

You are right, there are many workaround "approaches", however I do not see RB as a part of my future. I believe RB was a big mistake that was not corrected in time, but that is another topic.

Not trying to sound negative here, but trying to look at it realistically. I do like what I can do with BIAB, but I believe certain things would make it a much better program. And...I am hopeful that at least some percentage of items in the BIAB "Wishlist" will be implemented in the future release(s).


My request still stands smile

Top
#549348 - 08/14/19 07:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5217
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5217
Loc: South Carolina
<< My request still stands >>

Plus 1 from me too. It's a request that's been around a long time and asked by many.

However, "Not trying to sound negative here, but trying to look at it realistically," the reality is what you want to do is easy to do in BIAB as the program is now, the methods are not workarounds but how the program was structured many years ago prior to the the existence of huge amount of 'free tracks' and DAW editing power that's common today. It's how song construction is done in BIAB and based loosely on studio multi track practices of that time period.

Many, if not most, long time, seasoned users of BIAB have posted and still post today that BIAB is limited to 7 channels and a single audio track. The truth is one can construct and render a song totally within BIAB of 70 instruments and 20 tracks in less than 10 minutes including multiple audio tracks. Those are true but not firm numbers. You could double that count or half it in a few more minutes. I estimate 97% of RealStyles follow that same 7/1 structure with only a few having the medley instruments feature included in the Style or contain Artist performance tracks.

In the 2019 version, PGMusic programmers added some additional Styles and re-introduced some features and added a few features to introduce and re-introduce the concept to all BIAB users. I don't think anyone has posted a song using the method in the User's Showcase. I've been doing the songs I've posted for the last few years utilizing these features and completing my songs solely within a single BIAB project.

The issue for you and most others is the 'wish' itself not the capability of BIAB. Your statement;"I am requesting the one that will work for me, and that I believe should be available in the BIAB workflow." is simply requesting BIAB adapt to your personal workflow rather than you adapt your workflow to BIAB's existing capabilities.

To date, your wish is the prevailing mindset of BIAB users, new and old alike. The existing way, (strongly established and far superior to what you and others are 'wishing' for) hasn't gained any traction at all, not being widely known or accepted.

I'd like to see some at least try to use BIAB as designed, but the motivation isn't there so I'll go with the majority and support your request.
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak+ 2019:RB 2019 Build 5. Dell Inspiron AIO Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, 7th Generation AMD A9-9425 Processor Five Core 3100 Mhz and 16GB DDR4 Memory.

Top
#549352 - 08/14/19 08:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9807
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9807
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I've already supported, but I believe this still needs a push, so another +1 from me.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#549468 - 08/14/19 04:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1245
Charlie,
I get what you are saying. Sure, I can output WAV files for every track with each "change" to preserve certain elements and slice and dice them in DAW...To me it is mostly about the time... which unfortunately I have too little for my music adventures.

I do realize, that BIAB has amazing potential as it stands and is packed with features. However, BIAB is a "SOFTware" and not hardware, so there is always "room" for improvement in workflow and other good things smile

Top


PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Build 315 Update Available!

Attention Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac users - a new FREE patch update (build 315) is available!
Review details and download here

Summary of changes for build 315 (Nov 15, 2019):

Fixed: Exporting MusicXML files was not working.
Fixed: When using "Auto-Hand split Piano track" feature, exported MIDI files contain wrong note durations on the Piano track.
Fixed: Note-based lyrics were not included when exporting MIDI files.
Fixed: User should be prompted to save their song when exiting, if they had added or removed plugins.
Fixed: The Record Audio dialog always says “Track type is Stereo” even if the track type is mono.
Fixed: The [Audio Options…] button in the Record Audio dialog was launching the Audio Devices dialog instead of the Audio Settings dialog.
Fixed: Loops dialog title bar displays wrong track name.
Fixed: Large patch map files are not completely loaded (were limited to 1985 patches).
Fixed: Notation context menu > Edit Section Text… did not do anything.
Fixed: Notation context menu > Insert Section Text… did not do anything.

My Favorite Things - Nudge Chords in Band-in-a-Box®

Love this time saving feature.

Ever fill in the chordsheet fully or for part of song, and then discover you want to add or take away an extra beat or more somewhere in the chordsheet.

Nudge chords (melody) from the Edit Menu is your friend here, the dialog will give you all the options either to remove or add beats where its needed.

Love it.
-musiclover

To learn more about this feature, read the "Advanced Chord Entry and Editing Features" topic when you click here.

Band-in-a-Box® Video Testimonial & Demo - Rodney Gene Junior

Band-in-a-Box® endorsing artist Rodney Gene Junior has shared his latest User Testimonial and Demo with us, and we LOVE it! Not only does Rodney share with the viewer his enthusiasm for our program, he also shares a few examples of how he uses Band-in-a-Box® too - make sure you check it out!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Testimonial Video - Peter Torpey

Check out our latest Band-in-a-Box video testimonial, which takes using the program to a whole new level! Peter Torpey is a long time program user who has developed a way to work with the program, even though he's visually impaired - and he wants to make sure that others can too!
Click here to watch!

Learn more about Peter here.

View all our video testimonials here.

Want to make your own Testimonial? We'd love to see it! There's information on our Video Testimonials offer here.

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Upgrade & Full Manuals Available!
Happy National Saxophone Day!

Today's the day we say "Happy Birthday" to Adolphe Sax, the creator of the Saxophone!
(Adolphe was born November 6, 1814 - 32 years later he patended his saxophone creation!)

We have 35 different RealTracks Sets available for Band-in-a-Box® that include Saxophone RealTracks !

RealTracks Set 304: Blues Shuffle Horn Section
RealTracks Set 294: Big Band "Crooner Shout" Soloist!
RealTracks Set 266: Jazz & Funk Potpourri
RealTracks Set 265: Crooner Ballad Big Band!
RealTracks Set 264: Crooner Bossa Big Band!
RealTracks Set 244: Jazz Background Horns with Jack Stafford
RealTracks Set 236: Cocktail Jazz Horns!
RealTracks Set 220: Flute and Saxes with Jack Stafford
RealTracks Set 217: Jazz Pollwinners 8 – Jazz Waltz Sax Solos
RealTracks Set 216: Jazz Pollwinners 7 – Swingin' Sax & Guitar Soloing
RealTracks Set 215: Jazz Pollwinners 6 – Sax & Guitar Soloing, Ballads & Bossas
RealTracks Set 209: Rockin' Blues Baritone Sax with Gary Smulyan
RealTracks Set 207: Funky Horns
RealTracks Set 194: Jazz Pollwinners 1: Great Saxes: Phil Woods & Gary
RealTracks Set 189: Blues Baritone Sax with Gary Smulyan
RealTracks Set 188: Slow Background Pop Horn Section
RealTracks Set 183: Country Soloists: Sax and More!
RealTracks Set 176: R&B Horns
RealTracks Set 175: Texas Blues-Rock: Smokin' Blues Sax
RealTracks Set 160: Jazz-Funk Movin'
RealTracks Set 145: Jazz-Funk Breezy
RealTracks Set 127: Groovin' Jazz Funk
RealTracks Set 91: Smooth Jazz - Sax Soloing
RealTracks Set 58: Jazz and Pop Waltzes
RealTracks Set 57: Jazz Swing, Laid Back
RealTracks Set 55: Fast Bebop Jazz
RealTracks Set 54: Slow Jazz Ballad
RealTracks Set 52: Fast Samba
RealTracks Set 51: Slow Bossas and More
RealTracks Set 32: Blues
RealTracks Set 19: Jazz Ballad
RealTracks Set 17: Bossa
RealTracks Set 15: Mainstream Swing
RealTracks Set 13: Older Jazz Swing Soloists
RealTracks Set 7: Acoustic Jazz Bass and Rock Sax

Which one is your favorite?

Check our our Saxophonist programs for Windows:
The Jazz Saxophonist
The Rock Saxophonist

Our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Special Ends October 31st

Our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac special ENDS TODAY!!!
Order before 11:59PM PDT to save UP TO 50% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Upgrade... and receive a FREE Bonus PAK full of great Add-ons!

It's a GREAT time to order your upgrade to Band-in-a-Box 2019 for Mac, which is compatible with the just-released macOS Catalina - upgrades start at just $49!

We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2019 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks) upgrade it to the 2019 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

Forum Stats
30395 Members
62 Forums
60613 Topics
512697 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
ichavis, Hooman, gilou7, WaltDan, LeroyNethan

30394 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
VideoTrack 200
Noel96 179
Matt Finley 172
Jim 128
Janice & Bud 122
MarioD 116
sslechta 115
Jim Fogle 110
rayc 103
floyd jane 98
Today's Birthdays
stupotmusic