You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#546407 - 07/22/19 07:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Bar freeze / ReGen time
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Hi Foks.
One of the biggest drawbacks for me in BIAB is slow generation times...
With editing minor things there is always a looong regeneration gaps. While sitting, lets say for 2 hours, about 30 minutes is burned to "re-generation" sweat time.

And another thing. I noticed this long ago. Depending on bars count, the musical variation of real tracks changes. Meaning, if you add or subtract bars in other places than the one in focus, you might lose the desired phrasing of RealTrack, which you were happy with prior adding/removing bars at other places.

I wrote about this request some time ago, so this is sort of a roundup of things. Request is to freeze/unfreeze bars that you are "happy with" and only re-generate bars that you are working with, not touching the rest of the stuff. In theory it should save a lot of time, because you are only regenerating small part of composition. And by freezing parts of the song, you do not have to worry that some musical things will wonder away.

Thank you.

Top
#546414 - 07/22/19 09:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9381
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9381
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
With editing minor things there is always a looong regeneration gaps. While sitting, lets say for 2 hours, about 30 minutes is burned to "re-generation" sweat time.

I support the idea to be able to only regenerate certain bars (+1), but am I interpreting correctly that you have generation times measured in the hours?
_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#546422 - 07/22/19 10:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 75
balbuena Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 75
+++1

Top
#546424 - 07/22/19 11:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
VideoTrack, thank you for supporting idea on partial bar freeze!

yes, it (re-generation) takes a lot of time out of my "creative" time. I like to experiment with progressions (and other features) in BIAB. As you know, to audition even a minor change, whole project is re-generated.
So figure, for each typed chord or character that takes lets say 3-5 seconds to input, there is a 10 or so seconds of wait time for regen.

P.S. My comp is 6 core / 32ram, nvme internal drive with Audiophile on it. Speed of the setup helps, but not significantly... And yes, "speed up regeneration" box is checked in BIAB. So the idea is... if you only regenerating-10-15% of the whole tune (while the rest is partially frozen), regeneration time would be much faster. Sort of getting two rabbits with one shot smile

Top
#546432 - 07/23/19 02:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9381
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9381
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for clarifying.

With fast generation enabled, my system generates virtually any song (say 3 choruses of 32 bars), using 5 RealTracks in around 5 to 8 seconds. With Speed Up disabled, it is still only a few seconds longer.

Something is seriously wrong if a song takes the time that you are indicating.

Out of respect I don't wish to high-jack your thread by changing the topic, but I wonder if others might also give an indication of their generation times.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#546446 - 07/23/19 04:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3773
Pipeline Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 3773
It would be good to have that in BB.
I know the BB Plugin still has a few issues that will be fixed and you maybe used to the workflow of BB but something you could try is
Guide: Using Multiple Biab Plugins this gives a lot more control to create what you need.
_________________________
ReaTrak Integrate Biab & Plugin in Reaper
Free Biab & BiabVST Chord Picker Tool

Top
#546450 - 07/23/19 05:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18878
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18878
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Oh yes, this is a popular request that I support strongly.

But Rustyspoon, Videotrack is right; something is seriously wrong with your setup.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#546460 - 07/23/19 06:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Videotrack,
I am talking about cumulative time. If I input 80-100 changes per "sitting" especially when working on progression, generation takes quite a bite from my time. And the request doubles as bar freeze. Because if I add/remove bars and even if I "know" how it should sound, I still have to regenerate every step, to see if the phrasing of real tracks went away in other places... So in one session about 20-25% goes to regeneration times. I would say 8-10 sec. each pressing of regen button....

My main request here is "freezing certain/selected bars" and as by-product, it might shorten regeneration time.

Pipeline, thanks for the input. Interesting thought, but far away from my workflow.

Top
#546462 - 07/23/19 06:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9381
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9381
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
My workflow may be different to yours, but I still support the partial regeneration requirement. Incidentally, RealBand can do this.

+1, again.


_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#546464 - 07/23/19 07:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12345
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 12345
Loc: Hamlin NY
A BIG +1, AGAIN
_________________________
If you answer the phone with "Hello, you're on the air" most telemarketers will quickly hang up!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#546490 - 07/23/19 10:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2527
JohnJohnJohn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2527
+1
Should have been implemented long ago!

Top
#546503 - 07/23/19 11:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18878
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18878
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Videotrack,
I am talking about cumulative time. If I input 80-100 changes per "sitting" especially when working on progression, generation takes quite a bite from my time. And the request doubles as bar freeze. Because if I add/remove bars and even if I "know" how it should sound, I still have to regenerate every step, to see if the phrasing of real tracks went away in other places... So in one session about 20-25% goes to regeneration times. I would say 8-10 sec. each pressing of regen button....

...


Oh, that's better. Thanks for clarifying.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#548628 - 08/08/19 08:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7004
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7004
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Two easy solutions to this.

1. If you have a complex song that you're experimenting with use a midi style to start. Midi generates basically instantly. Once you've gotten the arrangement down, the song form, added or modified a tag ending, whatever it is you want to do to the song then go back to your RT style. Or...

2. Use the right tool for the job which is Real Band. Why do you think RB is included in the first place? This is one of the exact reasons RB was created to be able to regen parts of a song, parts of a single track, use multiple tracks to create comps of the same part using different versions of the same instrument or using a different style per track if you want.

It's the same reason a carpenter has a Skill saw, a table saw, a reciprocating saw and who knows what other saws. Different tools for different jobs. There is no one "universal tool" that does it all in music production or anything else. RB does everything you've asked about plus gives you 48 tracks to experiment with. That should be enough.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Top
#549333 - 08/14/19 06:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Jazzmammal... You are correct there are many "different tools"... And I am requesting the one that will work for me, and that I believe should be available in the BIAB workflow.

You are right, there are many workaround "approaches", however I do not see RB as a part of my future. I believe RB was a big mistake that was not corrected in time, but that is another topic.

Not trying to sound negative here, but trying to look at it realistically. I do like what I can do with BIAB, but I believe certain things would make it a much better program. And...I am hopeful that at least some percentage of items in the BIAB "Wishlist" will be implemented in the future release(s).


My request still stands smile

Top
#549348 - 08/14/19 07:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5104
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5104
Loc: South Carolina
<< My request still stands >>

Plus 1 from me too. It's a request that's been around a long time and asked by many.

However, "Not trying to sound negative here, but trying to look at it realistically," the reality is what you want to do is easy to do in BIAB as the program is now, the methods are not workarounds but how the program was structured many years ago prior to the the existence of huge amount of 'free tracks' and DAW editing power that's common today. It's how song construction is done in BIAB and based loosely on studio multi track practices of that time period.

Many, if not most, long time, seasoned users of BIAB have posted and still post today that BIAB is limited to 7 channels and a single audio track. The truth is one can construct and render a song totally within BIAB of 70 instruments and 20 tracks in less than 10 minutes including multiple audio tracks. Those are true but not firm numbers. You could double that count or half it in a few more minutes. I estimate 97% of RealStyles follow that same 7/1 structure with only a few having the medley instruments feature included in the Style or contain Artist performance tracks.

In the 2019 version, PGMusic programmers added some additional Styles and re-introduced some features and added a few features to introduce and re-introduce the concept to all BIAB users. I don't think anyone has posted a song using the method in the User's Showcase. I've been doing the songs I've posted for the last few years utilizing these features and completing my songs solely within a single BIAB project.

The issue for you and most others is the 'wish' itself not the capability of BIAB. Your statement;"I am requesting the one that will work for me, and that I believe should be available in the BIAB workflow." is simply requesting BIAB adapt to your personal workflow rather than you adapt your workflow to BIAB's existing capabilities.

To date, your wish is the prevailing mindset of BIAB users, new and old alike. The existing way, (strongly established and far superior to what you and others are 'wishing' for) hasn't gained any traction at all, not being widely known or accepted.

I'd like to see some at least try to use BIAB as designed, but the motivation isn't there so I'll go with the majority and support your request.
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak+ 2019:RB 2019 Build 3. Dell Inspiron AIO Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, 7th Generation AMD A9-9425 Processor Five Core 3100 Mhz and 16GB DDR4 Memory.

Top
#549352 - 08/14/19 08:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9381
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 9381
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I've already supported, but I believe this still needs a push, so another +1 from me.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#549468 - 08/14/19 04:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Bar freeze / ReGen time [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Rustyspoon# Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 1098
Charlie,
I get what you are saying. Sure, I can output WAV files for every track with each "change" to preserve certain elements and slice and dice them in DAW...To me it is mostly about the time... which unfortunately I have too little for my music adventures.

I do realize, that BIAB has amazing potential as it stands and is packed with features. However, BIAB is a "SOFTware" and not hardware, so there is always "room" for improvement in workflow and other good things smile

Top


PG Music News
Just Released: Xtra Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box for Windows!

164 amazing new RealStyles await you in Xtra Styles PAK 7! We've dreamed up some great new arrangements for your songwriting, production, and teaching needs in four volumes: Jazz 7, Country 7, Rock/Pop 7, and Americana 2.

Get all 164 new RealStyles in the All Xtra Styles PAK 7 for only $29 until September 15, 2019! (Reg. $49)

Specific genre packages are also available for $15 each!

For more information and to listen to demos, click here!

Band-in-a-Box® Features List!

Every version release of Band-in-a-Box® adds loads of new features and enhancements to the program, which we're sure can sometimes get "lost" in your knowledge of the program's capabilities.

Looking to learn about new features with a specific release? It's actually really easy to locate this information!

Learn tips on the new version (2019) by visiting Help | Tip of the Day and placing a check mark next to "Only Show Tips for Version 2019" (you'll also need to select "Show Tips at Startup", if it's not already).

Access the new features list for older versions in the Help Index of the program - from the left-menu, choose Contents | Features and a list of New Features will show - all the way back to Version 7!

#FeatureFriday

#TBT Band-in-a-Box® Goes to NAMM

As we get ready to head to Summer NAMM this year, we're remembering our time their last year - we had so many visitors stop by our booth!

Click here to take a peak!

Special thanks to Mike and all the RealTracks Artists and PG Endorsers who stopped by. Stay tuned for our Booth Visitors and other happenings from Summer NAMM on July 18-20, 2019! If you find yourself at the event, come say "Hi!" to us at booth 234.

Band-in-a-Box® for Windows StylePicker Feature - Finding RealTracks & MIDI SuperTracks

Did you know... Within Band-in-a-Box®, quickly find styles that use RealTracks (or MIDI SuperTracks!) in a certain range by pressing the [Other] filter button in the StylePicker window and select "Styles that contain RealTracks or MIDI SuperTracks in a number range".

#WisdomWednesday

Band-in-a-Box® Tip of the Day!

Did you know that Band-in-a-Box® will show you some helpful "Tips" when you start the program? What a great way for new program users to learn all the features of the program! Want to know Tips on just the latest version? This feature can be adjusted to just show the Tips for that too.

Maybe you're a long-time user of the program, and have this feature turned off? To access Tip of the Day (450+ available!), head to Help | Tip of the Day. Your Tip will appear right away - and you'll have the option of reading the Next Tip if you wanted too! Within this window is where you would also choose to "Show Tips at Startup" (if this is unchecked, you won't see them), or "Only Show Tips for Version 2019".

Here's a few Tips the program informed me of the last time I opened Band-in-a-Box®:

In the Piano Roll window, the 'Ghost Note' function allows you to view a single-channel, and see notes on all other channels display in light grey. This is useful when working with multi-channel tracks.

Want a bigger guitar display? Drag the bottom end of the Guitar Window to change its size, or press the SETTINGS button to set a custom size.

The Printout can use left and right MARGINS. This is useful to make printouts for small paper size or 3 hole paper that requires margins.

Edit | Nudge Chords/Melody. Let's say that you have entered a complete song chord progression, and you then realize that all of the chords starting at bar 23 are 1 beat to late. You can use this feature to slide your chords over by 1 beat.

#TipTuesday

Video - Using the Band-in-a-Box® Vocal Wizard

Check out this incredibly thorough video created by Dennis Wilkins, which explains how he uses the Band-in-a-Box® Vocal Wizard! Click here to watch..

YouTube Find - Ballad for a Travelling Lady

We did a search for Band-in-a-Box on YouTube, and look at what we found!

Video - "Ballad for a Travelling Lady" by Stefan Leipziger

What a great use of Band-in-a-Box! Check out Stefan's YouTube Channel for even more of songs he's created with the help of Band-in-a-Box.

Forum Stats
29920 Members
61 Forums
59425 Topics
501119 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
Pieter Stein, tct, johne1, Duranki, 7R3

29920 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Icelander 220
zedd 155
Janice & Bud 153
Jim 128
Deryk - PG Music 110
Ember - PG Music 108
Matt Finley 105
MarioD 99
JayO 92
Jim Fogle 90
Today's Birthdays
Robert Goulet, Serban Nichifor, wcockfield