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#553764 - 09/08/19 09:00 PM [RealBand] Can't change MIDI patch
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Lowell, MA
Funkifized Offline
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Lowell, MA
So, I've entered chords with the style that I want, pretty much all Real Tracks. I've added a couple of MIDI tracks to step-enter a Melody, a couple of bass notes in particular spots in place of the Real Track notes, etc. Sounds good so far. I'm trying to add some horn parts that I arranged previously. I saved the trumpet part from my Finale score as a singular MIDI file. I've imported it successfully into my Real Band song. However, it comes as a piano part. I keep trying to change the MIDI sound to trumpet, and it says 57: Trumpet in Track View, but the sound is still piano. Why can't I change this to a trumpet sound?


Attachments
TptImportedMIDI.png




Edited by Funkifized (09/08/19 09:15 PM)
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#553775 - 09/09/19 12:35 AM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 12/20/16
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Teunis Offline
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I know little of RealBand but I would think you’d need to click on the FX button and ensure you have a Trumpet selected as the MIDI instrument.

Tony
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#553788 - 09/09/19 02:08 AM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 709
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Funkifized
So, I've entered chords with the style that I want, pretty much all Real Tracks. I've added a couple of MIDI tracks to step-enter a Melody, a couple of bass notes in particular spots in place of the Real Track notes, etc. Sounds good so far. I'm trying to add some horn parts that I arranged previously. I saved the trumpet part from my Finale score as a singular MIDI file. I've imported it successfully into my Real Band song. However, it comes as a piano part. I keep trying to change the MIDI sound to trumpet, and it says 57: Trumpet in Track View, but the sound is still piano. Why can't I change this to a trumpet sound?


Step 1: Port over to Reaper.

Step 2: Do whatever you damn well please.

Step 3: Rejoice!
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#553801 - 09/09/19 05:03 AM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 860
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Online   content
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Posts: 860
Loc: Cornwall UK
HI

I see from your pic that you are using the Microsoft midi sounds.
Make sure you do not have a tick in reroute midi to vst/dxi in midi settings .

I suspect at the moment you are re routing to a non GM midi vst/dxi.

The other way if you want to reroute to a vst/dxi choose coyote wave table as your default dxi.
and put the tick in the reroute box
Mike
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#553832 - 09/09/19 09:54 AM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 06/08/05
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Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09

Step 1: Port over to Reaper.

Step 2: Do whatever you damn well please.

Step 3: Rejoice!


Dude. This is ridiculous. A comment like this implies that Real Band is just a total POS which is NOT TRUE. I used RB last year to record an entire album for my sister using 3 or 4 softsynths AT THE SAME TIME on different tracks for different sounds just like you can do with any other DAW. This also implies you do completely understand RB, have worked with it a lot and THEN decided to use Reaper which would be legit.

Why don't you answer the question for him? He obviously doesn't understand how softsynths work in general, not just with RB. He would have the same issue with Reaper.

Don't worry Funkfized, we'll get you sorted out, I just had to respond to this stupid post first.

Go to Help>Contents>Basics. Then read and understand Driver Setup then read and understand Setup and Configuration. If that doesn't answer your questions, reply back and we'll figure it out.

Bob
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#553848 - 09/09/19 12:05 PM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5007
Loc: South Carolina
Rob Helms Online   content
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Not to pile on DBlue, but I notice that mentality from many Reaper users (disclaimer: this is not a knock on REAPER) it seems to be an environment where folks feel a lot of connection. That can be good, still the following tends to be almost rabid. I own reaper but actually found it to be far to much work. I also have mixed entire projects in RB and found it very powerful. It really boils down to what work flow you like.

I do have to mention it never seems to be very cool or maybe not very wise to beat up on a product in favor of a competitor on that products forum. It kinda sets you up for a good old fashioned electronic tongue lashing.
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#553855 - 09/09/19 02:35 PM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Mike Head]
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Lowell, MA
Funkifized Offline
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Lowell, MA
Originally Posted By: Mike Head
HI

I see from your pic that you are using the Microsoft midi sounds.
Make sure you do not have a tick in reroute midi to vst/dxi in midi settings .

I suspect at the moment you are re routing to a non GM midi vst/dxi.

The other way if you want to reroute to a vst/dxi choose coyote wave table as your default dxi.
and put the tick in the reroute box
Mike


Thanks, but I don't know how to do those things.
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#553858 - 09/09/19 02:43 PM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Lowell, MA
Funkifized Offline
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Lowell, MA
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal

Go to Help>Contents>Basics. Then read and understand Driver Setup then read and understand Setup and Configuration. If that doesn't answer your questions, reply back and we'll figure it out.

Bob


I'm not getting what is wrong. I did the bass MIDI track step entry and it works fine(only a few notes for a band stop that wouldn't be covered by the Real Track). When I try to define a trumpet part, and step enter the notes, the MIDI track sounds clearly like piano, not trumpet.

Oh, but wait. I didn't step enter the notes of the trumpet part; they were imported from a MIDI file. I created the MIDI file in Finale. Is there something in that imported file that is making it impossible to change the MIDI patch?

Another edit: the bass step-entry notes are now piano sound, too. I can't win.


Edited by Funkifized (09/09/19 03:10 PM)
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#553915 - 09/09/19 05:50 PM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 05/30/00
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Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Go to the E icon (Event List) in RB.
Enter a patch change message (or Program Change) for the sound you want. It will be a MIDI patch number for the sound you want on the synth you are using.
This 'Forces' the track to send the MIDI info to the correct sound for the synth you chose. Enter it at the beginning of the song (1-1-0 for time).

Sounds like all Finale imported MIDI is using patch number 1 (piano usually), and possibly the same MIDI channel, since the bass and trumpets assume the same sound.
Making RB correct this may be your ticket to joy.

You may find all the imported MIDI from Finale is on the same MIDI channel (again check the Event List to verify).
If this is the case you may need to go the extra mile and Rechannel the MIDI track(s).
In other words, if you send a message on the Bass track and again on the Trumpet track, and they are on the same MIDI channel, they will over rule each other (with the last message being what is heard).
So sending this data on separate MIDI channels is important (say Basss on MIDI channel 2 and Trumpets on MIDI channel 12 for instance), that way they don't get conflicting messages.

MIDI is an art in itself. Understanding it, and how imported files may affect it can be important.

Hope that helps more than confuses.



Edited by rharv (09/09/19 05:52 PM)
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#553937 - 09/09/19 07:48 PM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: rharv]
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 127
Loc: Lowell, MA
Funkifized Offline
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Registered: 04/09/02
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Loc: Lowell, MA
Okay, so I went into the Event list for both tracks, put in the patch change on different channels for each of the two tracks. That worked. However, both tracks seem to be playing a 16th note late. They show up in the Notation Window as being on the beat, as well as in the Track Window, but now they play after the beat. How does that work?


Edited by Funkifized (09/09/19 07:50 PM)
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#553986 - 09/10/19 05:38 AM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7938
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
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Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
I personally think there is too much of the look I have Reaper, I have finale, I have band in the box, I have real band, I have this program, I have that program, and I need to use them all in order to make a proper CD. That is pure crap. Real Band can do everything that any of the others can do.


Edited by silvertones (09/10/19 05:40 AM)
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#554008 - 09/10/19 07:51 AM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 709
Loc: Eilat, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Offline
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 709
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Mmmkay.

For all the negative flack I drew for touting Reaper over RB, and those saying that "Realband does everything that Reaper can do," "I recorded an entire album on Realband," etc., I'll just jot down a couple dozen things off the top of my head where Reaper thrashes Realband on every level.

1. Folders and sub-folders for your tracks in Reaper that can be collapsed and expanded at will.

2. Multiple routing options in Reaper that you don't have in Realband in terms of sends, receives, pre/post FX, etc.

3. Reaper's dozens of native plugins in just about every damn category you can think of, including multiple forms of visualizers, sequencers, delays, compressors,... I know RB has a handful of effects, but I heavily doubt they've been updated in over a decade.

4. Reapitch. (you can track your vocals (or any monophonic instrumentm for that matter) against a pianoroll-style grid, and visually adjust out of pitch notes.

5. Invert direction of audio snippets for interesting reverse effects.

6. Incredible flexibility and wealth of options in setting your crossfades and their curves.

7. Built in LFO for automating parameter modulation.

8. Assigning colors and/or icons (e.g. microphone, piano, banjo, cello, guitar [acoustic/electric, bass]) to your individual tracks which enables you keep track of everything at a glance.

9. Assigning regions (with titles and colors, if you wish) to various parts of a track which then can be click-dragged into any configuration you please thereby enabling you to reorganize/duplicate an entire track or parts thereof in a matter of seconds.

10. Ripple editing.

11. Track/take/section/selection locking.

12. Applying effects to only portions of a track.

13. Track and item grouping.

15. Click-drag looping of audio, MIDI, and envelope configurations.

16. Highly configurable transient detection utility which you can use to align out-of-time notes to the grid utilizing stretch markers, or to...

17. ...automatically detect and select regions to delete, copy, or apply individual effects to selectively (e.g. delay, compression, multi-band eq.)

18. MIDI input quantize to grid options light-years more advances than Realband's.

19. Same with MIDI quantize to key/scale--there are scripts that can enable you to snap to Hungarian Minor, Japanese hexatonic, or whatever else you can throw at it.

20. Reaper's pianoroll has a zillion more options. You can set your notes at any length you please on the way in (in RB you can get a dotted whole note at most...if you want longer notes than that you have to draw them in yourself because YOU CAN'T MERGE MIDI CELLS LIKE YOU CAN IN REAPER). If you want to see how frustrating this is, try and have a long chord sustain over more than a single measure--like you would if you wanted a long orchestral swell that gradually blooms. The notes will cut off and re-trigger. Not "restating" chords is of no use here. Go ahead. Try and start a project with only a single "C" chord entered. With MIDI it should sustain for as long as you want it to. In RB it does not,

21. In Realband when you use your mousewheel to scroll down or up, it keeps going like a victim of its own inertia. No such problem in Reaper.

22. Realband will simply not enter the damn chords you ask it to! If I enter a fmaj13/A with a held piano MIDI track, I want to see every note in that cluster. Is that so much to ask? Reaper has not such problem.

23. Automation, automation, automation. Using the touch and latch modes, you can instantly create and modify parameters of every single effect, VSTi, or what have you in a matter of seconds. The only envelopes you get in RB are volume, and the most basic MIDI parameters (velocity, aftertouch, etc.)

24. Tempo changes can be plotted along any type of curve you like by simply visually adjusting a slope.

OK, there's 2 dozen right off the top of my head.

BTW, not looking to get into an argument here. I, myself, spent a fair amount of time with RB until I discovered what else was actually out there.

Whatever works for you, works for you. :-)

Best wishes,

DB09


Edited by DeaconBlues09 (09/10/19 09:35 AM)
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#554070 - 09/10/19 12:42 PM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5007
Loc: South Carolina
Rob Helms Online   content
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I get what your saying DB, by the way how's the weather in your neck of the woods.

Reaper is a rich program for sure as is Cubase, Studio One, cakewalk, etc. it has far deeper features in many areas than RB. There are some areas where reaper fails in comparison to RB, and those areas are obvious. Track generation features is one that pops out boldly. For basic tracking and project building RB is very powerful. It does fails in automation and such.

I was not trying to argue with you but rather to point out that there is some truth to the fact that Reaper users tend to push Reaper on every forum I have ever been on, as if it is the end all of DAWs. it is a very powerful DAW for sure but not the best. It lags behind in midi compared to Cakewalk and Cubase, Takes, comping and such are a little less intuitive when compared to Studio one, and Cubase. It's routing is highly developed for sure, but to me as I have been a cakewalk user for better than 20 years, and a Studio one user for about 5 now I find it's routing convoluted and confusing. It is highly customizable, but again kind of fiddly, one can spend hours fooling around with stuff that simply works on other programs. Note: I have tinkered with Reaper since version 2 so I do know how to use it.

Again I respect your opinion and knowledge, and would not want to argue. I guess I just over years I have seen Reaper enthusiast shout its praises on Cakewalk's, Studio One's, PGS Music's, N-track Studio's, Multitrackstudio's, Cubase's, you name it. As if everyone should just drop all these other programs and Reaper will solve all their problems and lead them to DAWland bliss. I feel sometimes it is poor form to constantly promote, and suggest people move on to other software right on every other software's forum.

Still if I am being unfair or misrepresenting your view I apologize. To each our own as they say. I hope all is well with you and yours, please never let my views stop you from feeling free to express yours. We learn from each other. I appreciated your list earlier, and hope you can appreciate my views as well. Best wishes
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#554103 - 09/10/19 03:59 PM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19522
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Posts: 19522
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Back to the OP's last question ..
The 16th lag is not normal.
What synth are these 2 tracks using?
It *may* be caused by softsynth latency, but this shouldn't be new (or newly induced) by entering a patch change!
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#554202 - 09/11/19 06:49 AM [RealBand] Re: Can't change MIDI patch [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7938
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7938
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
No argument here.
My statement was not accurate. I should have said:
A big % of people usins DAWs no very little about recording and RB has more features then they no how to use. The availability of all these other tools are useless in the hands of amateurs.
No judgement on the OP. He/she can't even figure out how to do a patch change. All those Features aren't features if you cant use them and aren't a pro. They get in the way.
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Fixed: If an ASIO driver cannot connect during bootup, the default WAS driver should be used instead.
Fixed: If using the 64 bit version of Band-in-a-Box, the BB2Go window would display an erroneous QuickTime version, and converting files to .m4a would fail. QuickTime is only available for the 32 bit version, but is only required if using Windows Vista or earlier.
Fixed: Lyrics would not display in the Big Lyrics if "Show chord symbols above the lyrics" was enabled.
Fixed: melodists were getting quantized incorrectly.
Fixed: Possible crash if editing a text layer while using the floating Notation Window.
Fixed: Possible freeze when importing compressed audio files.
Fixed: Practice window | Master Solos | Blues Piano, displays N/A.
Fixed: RealTracks #2975 (Vocal Oohs-Aahs) sometimes played incorrect chords for m7b5 and C7.
Fixed: Rebuilding styles list was causing errors sometimes.
Fixed: Several Piano and Organ MIDI SuperTracks have been edited to remove spurious MIDI events (e.g. mod wheel sometimes caused 'warbling' effect).
Fixed: Sforzando might not automatically be added to the VST list, causing Hi-Q patch selection to fail.
Fixed: Some bars for the B section of RT 2529 were dropping out.
Fixed: Some Bass and Nylon Guitar RealTracks (including 2718, 2724, 2722, 2725, 2719) have RealCharts added.
Fixed: StylePicker: User Category list wasn't refreshing after choosing a new user category.
Fixed: The About dialog said 'for Macintosh' instead of 'for Windows'.
Fixed: The Drop Station would not update if dropping a file onto Presonus Studio One.
Fixed: When choosing a compressed format for rendering files, and "One file per track" is enabled, the resulting files are .wav format instead of the compressed format.
Fixed: Wrong notes on Oohs and Aahs RealTracks.

Summary of changes for Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin 1.16.29:
Added: copy selected cell if nothing highlighted
Added: shift-arrows to select in chord sheet
Added: SHIFT-ENTER to go backwards in chord sheet
Added: SHIFT-TAB to go backwards in chord sheet, TAB to go forward
Added: support for all Biab file types
Fixed: Added message if attempting to drag tracks before generating
Fixed: Alert window buttons "punch hole" when pressed
Fixed: Audio stutters when resizing plugin in some DAWs
Fixed: auto gen after open feature not working in Studio One 4
Fixed: bounds when highlighting in chord sheet
Fixed: C#7b5b9b13 to chord sheet
Fixed: distortion when stopping playback in pro tools
Fixed: losing focus in chord sheet
Fixed: make selected cell at the end after pasting
Fixed: Open dialog in infinite loop
Fixed: plugin stops playing non-synced tracks when closing and then opening plugin
Fixed: Send space bar keystrokes to DAW
Fixed: some styles not dragging all tracks from blue button
Fixed: track text not resizing correctly
Fixed: Transpose not working
Fixed: Verify folders before each call to Biab

New Left-Handed & Student View Guitar Window in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows, the Guitar window has been remade and now supports the left-handed (in addition to right-handed) guitar and student view!

The student view is the view a student (or YouTube video watcher) would have of the (right-handed) guitar facing him with the head at the right and low notes at the top. There's also a left-handed student view, so all 4 possible views are supported.

To change the view, press the [Guitar] toolbar button to open the Guitar window and then the [Settings] button.

See this new feature in action when you jump to the "Left-Handed & Student View Guitar Fretboard" topic in our 2020 New Features video: Click here...

Loops with Style PAK 1 - Just $19 Until January 15th!

The recently released Loops-with-Style PAK 1 is your chance to expand your loops collection with 100 new loops!

To show them in action, we've created 50 new RealStyles that each include two of the loops. Plus, if you use the loops in Band-in-a-Box, we've included intelligent versions of the loops that automatically switch at A and B part markers. Each loop has a matching sister loop that works perfectly for another substyle!

We're offering Loops-with-Style PAK 1 at the introductory price of $19, but only until January 15, 2020 (reg. price $29). Purchase here.

Note: Loops-with-Style PAK 1 requires the Band-in-a-Box® 2019 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Watch the demonstration video...

Windows user? Click here for product information, or to to purchase Loops-with-Style PAK 1.

Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows® DAW Plugin 2.0 New Features

Learn all about the newest features added to our Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows® DAW Plugin 2.0! Watch the video...

There are over 40 enhancements to the Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin, including Audio Harmonies (apply to any DAW audio track, 1-4 voices, using intelligent Band-in-a-Box® harmonies with passing tones). New features allow Customizing Tracks, Bar and Song settings. RealTracks, RealDrums sound improvements (gap filling, thickening), enhancements or reading/writing more data types to/from BIAB song files and much more!

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