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#555896 - 09/22/19 12:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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I wonder if anyone can advise if I'm doing something wrong. I want to select a custom MIDI style and add it to a track.

1: I right-click on the empty Melody track and choose 'Select custom MIDI style for this track'

2: I want a Slow String patch, so I choose Slow Strings as the Patch and then press 'Choose Style with this patch' (Figure 1)

3: I select 'BOSANEW' as the style which clearly shows it has a Strings track using Slow Strings. I press OK (Figure 2).

4: I now need to select which track I want to use from BOSANEW.STY. However, in the drop-down there is no Strings track. The tracks that are shown are actually the names of the tracks in my already existing song, not the ones in BOSANEW.STY (Figure 3).

5: It now gets more complicated/weirder. I now get a message that 'Slow Strings is on Guitar 2 track of Style BOSANEW' and 'it will be placed on the track that you chose: Flute. This is OK'. (Figure 4) When or how did I choose Flute? I had chosen to put it on the Melody track. There was never a track named Flute.

6: I press OK and it places the MIDI patch on the Melody track and labels it 'Strings' (Figure 5). I wrongly think I've succeeded.

7: I generate the song and it renames the Strings track to Flute and doesn't have any MIDI data. It is an empty track (Figure 6)

I've watched the online video and read the help and I believe I'm doing this correctly. Any advice? Can anybody see an error in my workflow?


Attachments
2019-09-22_16-50-35.jpg

2019-09-22_16-52-40.jpg

2019-09-22_16-55-28.jpg

2019-09-22_17-04-36.jpg

2019-09-22_17-15-17.jpg


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#555907 - 09/22/19 05:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 910
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Hi Video Track.

I think you problem stems from the fact that you are trying to use the melody track.
This is not part of the original style and you are in fact trying to load 2 styles at once one on the style tracks and another on the melody track.

I would have thought you should be loading the custom midi style to the style track that you want to replace then choosing which track from the custom style to use as a replacement for your original style track that you are inserting on.
I may be be quite wrong I have not tried this but it seems logical to me.
As this keeps the style tracks where they should be the first 5 tracks, and the melody free for melody notes.

Mike
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#555909 - 09/22/19 06:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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What you are trying to do actually sounds like a good idea. I remember doing something similar a few years back with moderate success. The trick was you can not assign a midi patch to a track in a style which does not initially have midi data assigned to it. So the idea of moving over midi data from a track from a different style sounds like the thing to do.

Then more recently there was a video where new features were apparently added which made this appear like it would be easy-peasy. So I just now spent 20 minutes giving it a go as you indicated. I get the same results - kinda a mess. So there must be another way. If I get a little more time today, I will look for the video and/or type a different approach and see what I can get.
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#555911 - 09/22/19 06:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: Mike Head]
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MusicStudent Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mike Head

.. you should be loading the custom midi style to the style track that you want to replace then choosing which track from the custom style to use as a replacement for your original style track that you are inserting on.

Mike


Mike, on first read this sounds like crazy BIAB-speak. grin But you may have it with the Melody track. This track has always been different and may be the culprit here. I can tell you some of the initial issues I see is the track naming convention which assigns different names to the tracks (original BIAB track naming versus name of the instrument on the track) - this can be very confusing.

Dan
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#555914 - 09/22/19 06:21 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: Mike Head]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10532
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mike Head
Hi Video Track.
I think you problem stems from the fact that you are trying to use the melody track...

Mike, thanks for stepping in and your response is genuinely appreciated.
I would have thought that by now (2019), if I could not use the melody track for this task, then the option would have been disabled, or at least a reasonable warning would have been provided. Instead, it was absolutely accepting to allow me to proceed. I'm intrigued.


Attachments
2019-09-22_23-14-36.jpg


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#555916 - 09/22/19 06:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/08/02
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MusicStudent Offline
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It looks so simple in this 2019 video. It may be the Melody track as Mike suggested... the demo uses the Strings Track


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Capture.JPG


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#555917 - 09/22/19 06:29 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
The trick was you can not assign a midi patch to a track in a style which does not initially have midi data assigned to it. So the idea of moving over midi data from a track from a different style sounds like the thing to do.

Dan, you're on the money here. I have gotten it to work before, but it is totally hit-and-miss. That clue about having some MIDI data already on the track might be the clue.

Meanwhile, absolutely nothing I have read states that a user cannot add a MIDI style to a melody track. After all, that track is designed for MIDI, no?

I am beginning to think this is a programmatical issue (note how I'm careful with my terminology wink )
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#555919 - 09/22/19 06:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
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MusicStudent Offline
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I still suspect it may be user-workflow. Even the demo shows multiple ways to complete this task. I am getting my second cup of coffee now, wife still sleeping I plan to duplicate a different workflow from the demo and see if I can get this to work, if time permits. grin
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#555920 - 09/22/19 06:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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Dan, yes, this is one of the videos that I reviewed also (several times). Note that nothing is disabled for the Melodist or Soloist tracks. Every track is available to be selected for use.


Attachments
2019-09-22_23-45-28.jpg


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#555922 - 09/22/19 06:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: MusicStudent]
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VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
I still suspect it may be user-workflow. Even the demo shows multiple ways to complete this task. I am getting my second cup of coffee now, wife still sleeping I plan to duplicate a different workflow from the demo and see if I can get this to work, if time permits. grin

Dan, I hope the wife is really tired. All help is appreciated. Big grin
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#555923 - 09/22/19 06:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
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MusicStudent Offline
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Worked first time on the Strings track ....!!

Watch the video to get the concept.

I had a BIAB Retrack Style (all RTs). I inserted a Orchestral Strings midi track over the RT on the Strings track with only a couple clicks of the mouse straight from the mixer menus.

Not sure if it mattered, but I unchecked this box... Just too often confusing for me to deal with it.


Attachments
Capture.JPG




Edited by MusicStudent (09/22/19 06:51 AM)
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#555925 - 09/22/19 06:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
Worked first time on the Strings track ....!!

Yep. The Strings track being one of the first 5 tracks?
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#555929 - 09/22/19 07:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
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MusicStudent Offline
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So have you got it going?

If so, not a "programmatical issue" after all. This is just how BIAB works. It can drive newbees crazy while older veterans just scratch their heads. I do believe cooler heads prevailed in this instance. grin
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"...My goal is not to create backing tracks for my music, but rather to get more of me in my music."
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#555930 - 09/22/19 07:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/10/15
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Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Offline
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Loc: Cornwall UK
Hi

Well it seems then it is as I said you must use a style track.
The first 5 tracks are considered to be the style tracks , after all if you you disable the style in a song it only disables the first 5 tracks, the melody track and the soloist and audio if present still play.You cant make a six track style by putting a style track on the melody track.

So it seems to me if your want to modify a style then you have to modify a style track.

Just my take,
Mike


Edited by Mike Head (09/22/19 07:10 AM)
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#555931 - 09/22/19 07:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
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MusicStudent Offline
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Hope we are not premature in our conclusion. But it look like you hit the nail on the Head Mike.


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Capture.JPG


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#555932 - 09/22/19 07:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: Mike Head]
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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Can't disagree with anything mentioned except that if I can't 'Assign a custom MIDI style' to the Melodist or Soloist tracks, then those tracks simply shouldn't be available for this function. No?

I'm going to report it. Hopefully they can fix it. Why waste two unused tracks?


Attachments
2019-09-22_23-45-28.jpg


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#555933 - 09/22/19 07:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
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VideoTrack Offline
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Mike and Dan, thanks. You found the reason, but <groan> the underlying problem clearly is in the program code itself. There is no reason that those tracks are unusable for that function, and clearly nothing prevents them from being used, but try using them and the results are completely awry.

There are other underlying problems also. If I try to place the custom style on a RealTrack instead (as suggested), it still gives me the choice of the names of the existing RealTracks in my song instead of the name of the track from the custom style. Check it out:

This entire feature is riddled with issues. More work required. I don't think we actually won, yet. But you better believe that your input is thoroughly appreciated smile .


Attachments
2019-09-23_00-31-04.jpg


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#555934 - 09/22/19 07:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
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MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Can't disagree with anything mentioned except that if I can't 'Assign a custom MIDI style' to the Melodist or Soloist tracks, then those tracks simply shouldn't be available for this function. No?

I'm going to report it. Hopefully they can fix it. Why waste two unused tracks?


There are more than just two wasted MIDI tracks. As you probably know my pet peeve with BiaB is that all of the MIDI tracks are preassigned. I really want all 16 MIDI tracks open for the user. If this were the case you would not be having your problem.

Note that there could be a radio button where one side would be as is now and the other side would be all MIDI tracks open for the user.

YMMV
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#555935 - 09/22/19 08:01 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 06/05/12
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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The other frustrating thing is that is actually hit-and-miss. Sometimes I can get it to work. Don't ask me why or how, but I can apply a custom MIDI style to the Melodist track.


Attachments
2019-09-23_00-58-31.jpg


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#555936 - 09/22/19 08:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Weird problem with selecting tracks for custom MIDI patch [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/08/02
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MusicStudent Offline
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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
There are other underlying problems also. If I try to place the custom style on a RealTrack instead (as suggested), it still gives me the choice of the names of the existing RealTracks in my song instead of the name of the track from the custom style. Check it out:


As pointed out - Turn off the "auto generate track labels" feature. A long time source of confusion.

But back to point, how did the inserted midi track work out for you? As you can tell, not many folks use this feature but I suspect it can be a cool idea.
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