Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#535105 - 05/02/19 04:15 AM [Beginners Forum] Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 188
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 188
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Hello,
This is my first post...

I need to have 6/8 beat for the verse and then 4/4 for the chorus for "Rose of Washington Square". I am entering the chords only.

I read in the forum how 6/8 is the same as 4/4 in triplets but have no idea how to make that work in practice.

Is there a better description or tutorial or something that will show me how to do this? video?

All suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Best regards
Bernt
_________________________
Band in a Box
Latest: ULTRA 2020 (730) on Win 10
And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7


Top
#535149 - 05/02/19 12:48 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11386
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11386
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Welcome to the forums.

This can probably best be achieved by changing Styles at the correct locations within the song.

Start by choosing the 6/8 style for your song.
Select the bar that the chorus starts, press function key <F5> (or right-click and select Bar Settings), and select a 4/4 style from the .STY button option.

Repeat when you need to revert to 6/8 if it's further along in the song.


Attachments
Post attachments only available when logged in
_________________________
BIAB&RB2020(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#535162 - 05/02/19 02:39 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 188
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 188
Loc: Sydney, Australia
That is great advice, thanks.

So the style defines what time signature gets used!

I have not seen any 6/8 styles in what I have here. (2019 PRO edition).
Does that mean I cannot do it or is there another way?

Also, I would like the style to match the type in the 6/8 and 4/4. For example jazz swing.


Regards
Bernt
_________________________
Band in a Box
Latest: ULTRA 2020 (730) on Win 10
And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7


Top
#535336 - 05/04/19 07:34 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 20022
Loc: Mi., USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 20022
Loc: Mi., USA
FWIW I'd use Realband for this.
It lets the same style be used over different time signatures better than BiaB in my opinion. Including the use of Time Signatures not even allowed in BiaB (7/4 etc).
You wouldn't need to change styles, just change the time sig for the desired bar(s) and change it back to original after that section, then regenerate.

just a thought
YMMV depending on the style.


Edited by rharv (05/04/19 07:39 AM)
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

Top
#558897 - 10/12/19 06:10 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: rharv]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
Bump

I can't believe there are no styles in 6/8!!! (BIAB2019) How am going to do chord charts for irish or barn dance tunes

Please someone tell me there are.....

Top
#558898 - 10/12/19 06:32 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
Update, just found this

C_CLANCY M 6/8 sw8 120 Clancy (Irish) Style

However, even after setting my style to this in the song, the leadsheet still says 4/4!?!

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Top
#558900 - 10/12/19 06:42 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
a 6/8 style in 4/4 was giving me 12/8 so...Have got the playback timing correct by setting the time sig to 2/4 BUT now the chords in the second half of the bar/measure are missing in the leadsheet?!? Grrrrrrrrrrrr

Top
#558904 - 10/12/19 07:41 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 14252
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 14252
Leave it in 4/4. Then open the style picker and type words in the filter like “Celtic” or “6/8” “12/8” etc and choose a style that fits.

You will then enter up to 4 chords per 4/4 bar, with each bar equivalent to two bars of 6/8.

The notation will show in 4/4, but there is a setting on the notation to switch the display to 6/8, so it looks just like your printed notation books.

The only thing you can’t do is enter chords on different triplets, just the first and fourth triplets of the 6/8 bar.

If musicians are playing Macnamaras Band, they don’t count it in in 6/8 and it’s not hard to count it in 4/4 as you play it. It’s just notation display that’s 6/8. Realizing that opens up a world of style possibilities to mix any 4/4 styles with 6/8 or 12/8.

Jazz swing music is actually 6/8 or 12/8, it is just by convention it is notated in 4/4 with a marking saying the eighth notes are triplets.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

Top
#558905 - 10/12/19 07:46 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon

The only thing you can’t do is enter chords on different triplets, just the first and fourth triplets of the 6/8 bar.


But that's precisely what I do want to do!

In any case, I don't follow what you're saying - a bar a 6/8 only has two triplets in my book. If there are four triplets; that's 12/8, isn't it?

yours totally confused confused

Top
#558907 - 10/12/19 07:50 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 14252
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 14252
A bar of 6/8 has 6 beats strictly speaking.
But you group them in threes, so then it has two groups of triplets. You can put a chord in each of those.

Load up some jig styles and load the songdemo for them and see many examples of how this works.

For example, here are the words for a bar of macnamaras band. Each bracketed group is a beat in 4/4.

[NAME is] [MAC na] [MAR a] [ I’M the ]

_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

Top
#558908 - 10/12/19 08:06 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
A bar of 6/8 has 6 beats strictly speaking.
But you group them in threes, so then it has two groups of triplets. You can put a chord in each of those.

Load up some jig styles and load the songdemo for them and see many examples of how this works.


I understand this and I have loaded a jig style (c-clancy)......so, why did you mention "the first and fourth triplets in 6/8" in your first reply??

Like I said before, I have got the playback timing correct by setting the time sig to 2/4 BUT now the chords in the second half of the bar/measure are greyed out in the main window and completely missing from the leadsheet printout.

To put it another way: 2/4 gets me two triplets in each bar 4/4 gives me four triplets, which I do not want.

I want two triplets and two (different) chords per bar. There must be a way of doing this or do I have to go back to pen and paper?!

Top
#558999 - 10/13/19 02:25 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
I have looked at macnamaras band (zz_irish.sty). It has the same issues as c_clancy.sty. Labelled as 6/8 but displays 4/4 and sounds four triplets per bar, i.e actually 12/8.

I need to be able to change chord every triplet in certain parts of the song.

Top
#561739 - 10/31/19 06:59 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
Bump.

Still haven't got an answer to this.

to recap and paraphrase: how do I get a triplet style like zzirish and c_clancy to play two triplets per bar (measure) and have two chords per bar. i.e. a chord change every triplet

Top
#561744 - 10/31/19 07:38 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6385
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6385
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
What it appears that you're asking is for Band-in-a-Box to print notation exactly as you want it to appear. If I am wrong, please correct me as I admit I do not have a clear understanding of your intent.

If my understanding is correct then what you are wanting the program to do may not currently be possible. The only way to find out for sure is to continue substituting styles, regenerating and looking at test printouts.

The issue is the primary goal of the Band-in-a-Box program is song arrangement. The program is not as full featured when it comes to printing out notation.

You may find it easier to arrange songs in Band-in-a-Box and save the song as a midi, MusicXML or ABC Notation file and then import the file into a notation program such as +++ Forte +++ or +++ MuseScore +++ .
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (730) RB (Build 5) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 2004, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#561787 - 10/31/19 01:54 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: ricobasso]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16637
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16637
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: ricobasso
Bump.

Still haven't got an answer to this.

to recap and paraphrase: how do I get a triplet style like zzirish and c_clancy to play two triplets per bar (measure) and have two chords per bar. i.e. a chord change every triplet

Hi ricobasso,

In the 2/4 bars, if you want to get one chord on each tripet, use a comma between the chords.

e.g. entering C,F will put C on beat 1 and F on beat 2.

Alternatively, right-click on the chord sheet and open "Chord Settings", this will also allow chord entry on individual beats.

Over the years, I've found that 12/8 styles work pretty well as 6/8 styles. The main difference is that in 12/8 there are four dotted 1/4 note beats with rhythmic strengths of (S)trong (W)eak (M)edium (W)eak (i.e. it's a 4/4 time based on triplets). A 6/8 time signature, on the other hand, has (S)-(W) beats. The (M) beat of 12/8 (i/e beat 3) often doesn't sound all that different to the first (S) beat of 12/8 or 6/8.

Also, given that in a great deal of music, bars are often paired in a Strong/Medium grouping, a 12/8 feel can quite easily come across as 6/8.

Quote:
An example of this (S)-(M) bar grouping is found in the opening bars of Mozart's 40th Symphony. While this is in 2/4, the bar groupings go |(S)|M)|S)|(M)| and give a 4/4 feel.



DIRECT LINK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaUn28PUy8Y

In other words, it's worth trying 12/8 styles because it's possible that they will work for 6/8.

To get the notation in 12/8 to show as 6/8 in print-outs, there is a button in "Notation Editor" that modifies the display to do this. (See the image below.)

Hope that this, in addition to Jim's fine advice above, helps.

Regards,
Noel


Attachments
Post attachments only available when logged in
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#561877 - 11/01/19 02:23 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
Originally Posted By: Noel96
In the 2/4 bars, if you want to get one chord on each tripet, use a comma between the chords.


hello Noel and thanks for taking the time to reply. I must be missing something because what you describe above does not work for me.

e.g. I load up ZZIRISH.sty and change the time sig to 2/4 for all bars. The indicated time sig in the top banner does not change from 4/4 but all the bars now have a red underline. If I enter "C,F" it just occupies the first half of the bar. If I "enter C, enter F", the F goes into the second half of the bar but it is greyed out and does not play.

thinks...........Eureka!!!

Maybe, just maybe, I get it. BIAB is actually playing only the first half of each bar while leaving the display showing the full 4 beats/triplets. Well!! What a daft way of doing it and how confusing!!!


Edited by ricobasso (11/01/19 02:24 AM)
Edit Reason: lighbulb emoji dispalyed as a url

Top
#561878 - 11/01/19 02:32 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
Another niggle. If I select 6/8 in the leadsheet window, the original 4/4 or 2/4 does not change until I close and re-open the leadsheet window. Then the 6/8 is displayed twice, before and after the repeat barlines!! Intented or a bug?

Top
#561887 - 11/01/19 03:19 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16637
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16637
Loc: Australia
Hi ricobasso,

What you see as 'bars' on the chord sheet are actually cells - like in Excel. It is the time signature that determines how much of a cell is used.

Each cell has the potential to contain 4 beats. This means that cells align with bars in 4/4 time. In 2/4 time, though, only beats 1 and 2 of the cell are needed. This is why any chord after beat 2 will be greyed out.

Similarly, in 3/4 only beats 1, 2 and 3 are required and so if a chord is placed on beat 4 in 3/4, it will be greyed out.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. Would you mind posting a screen shot of the problem so that I can see it?

The link below explains how to post an image.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=472139#Post472139

Regards,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#561980 - 11/01/19 03:24 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 35
here are the screenshots


Attachments
Post attachments only available when logged in


Edited by ricobasso (11/02/19 02:59 AM)

Top
#561983 - 11/01/19 03:59 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16637
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16637
Loc: Australia
Thanks. Those images help a lot.

That's definitely a bug. I'll pass it onto the developers and reference this thread so that they can see the problem.

To access the "File Manager" to upload graphics, it's necessary to "Switch to full reply screen" -- the button is directly beneath the "Quick Reply" window.
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® Delivery Explained...

When you order your copy of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows or Mac directly from PG Music Inc., you can choose to download your order, ship your order, or BOTH!

Having your Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK shipped? Choose between DVD installation or flash drive installation during the checkout process. Purchasing the UltraPAK or UltraPAK+? These ship pre-installed on a USB 3.0 hard drive!

Don't forget, just because you're order is shipping doesn't mean you can't download it while you wait - you can locate your online order records in your pgmusic.com account, within the "My Products" section.

Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac Today!

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Mac to the latest build 419 to correct any improper messages for Natural Arrangements, apply VST setting improvements, experience faster customized RealTracks and RealDrums Pickers, and fix a few other user-reported issues within the program.

You'll also receive the latest DAW Plugin version 2.12.15 update, with more than 30 additions and updates, including additional options within context menus, the ability to loop a set of bars by highlighting them, and more!

Learn more about this FREE update and download it here.

Let's Hear Your Band-in-a-Box® Songs!

Working on your first song in Band-in-a-Box®? Or maybe you've built up a great collection of songs... Make sure to share them to the User Showcase Forum where other program users post their original songs too! Receive feedback, build your audience, and connect with other enthusiastic program users - you'll be happy you did!

While you're there, make sure to listen to some of the other great songs posted!

Band-in-a-Box® Country Music Add-ons!

Happy International Country Music Day!!!

You might not think of Band-in-a-Box® as a country music making machine, but you'd be surprised... there are OVER 850 Country RealTracks available!

See (hear?) the Country songs created by Band-in-a-Box® users when you check out the Band-in-a-Box® Radio playlists Country/EZ Listening/Folk 1 and Country/EZ Listening/Folk 2.

Feeling inspired to create your own Country song in Band-in-a-Box®? Pop into the RealTracks Picker and create your own custom country band by filtering for "Country" or choose an existing Country style within the StylePicker Window by choosing a "Country" Filter String (from the drop down menu).

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 French for Mac is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 apporte plus de 50 nouvelles fonctionnalités ! Des améliorations ont été apportées aux RealTracks (RealTracks vocales au son plus doux, Epaississement des RealTracks, fonctions RealTracks "Trouver un Subs" et Multiriffs). La majorité des RealDrums dispose maintenant de RealCharts (avec une notation Drums précise). Le nouveau navigateur d'artistes RealTracks permet la recherche d'informations/bios/liens/listes sur artistes RealTracks. Le nouveau navigateur de fonctions permet à l'utilisateur nouveau ou "tête en l'air" de trouver et d'utiliser facilement la plupart des fonctionnalités/raccourcis/documents à partir d'une seule fenêtre. L'égalisation du tempo permet de changer un morceau rubato enregistré en un tempo fixe. L'étirement audio temps/pitch a été amélioré (Elastique inclus). Il y a des améliorations un peu partout dans le SongPicker, les Intros automatiques avec Basse/drums ou drums seuls, l'extension du nombre de titres avec + 3.400 titres nouveaux, MusicXML, la guitare avec vues "gaucher" et "élève", la fonction glisser-déposer, l'affichage multi-fenêtres de l'Assistant Accord Audio et bien plus encore !

ACHAT / MISE À JOUR, & TÉLÉCHARGEMENT MAINTENANT!

Get Inspired with the Band-in-a-Box® Title Generator!

There can be many triggers that could inspire you to write a song... but what if you're wanting to write a song, and are having trouble finding the inspiration you need?

Jump start your creativity using the Title Generator feature in Band-in-a-Box®.

I love this feature - it delivers some beautiful results!

To access this feature:

Mac: select Edit | Chords | Auto-Generate Song Title menu command (control+shift+S). The song title will appear in the Title window! Repeat the Auto-Generate Song Title command until the program comes up with a suitable title for your song. Band-in-a-Box® will keep generating new titles for as long as it takes to get the right one.

Windows: click on the "Generate Title" button within the main screen of the program and you can choose to "auto-generate" a song title which will appear right in the Title field of your song, or for a more varied selection choose to "generate multiple titles" and you'll be taken to the Title Generator window, which can generate a list of 50 song titles for you!

I've just done this, and won't bother list all 50 here - but the "top 10" I've chosen from my generated list are:
Eloquent Laugh
Statuesque Luck
Considering a Rainbow
Brief Fling, Acknowledged
Something for a Sandpiper
Happy Runaround
Cheatin' Skies
Then Came a Rose
The Mention of My Love
Eternal Raincheck

Give it a try!

The resource for this feature can also be edited, allowing you to customize the results.
(to do this, review the file TITL1.TXT within the BB Data folder.)

Band-in-a-Box® - Loops-with-Style PAK Video Tutorial

Wondering how to use the Loops-with-Style PAKs in your songs?

Check out our latest video, where we explain installing Loops-with-Style PAKs, locating the content within the proram, and how to use them in either in Band-in-a-Box® or in other DAWs - Watch the video...

Learn about the Styles included, applying the Loops, how the Loops will work with your song settings, using these Loops in other DAWs, and more!

Note: this video was made using the Windows version, however the steps are the same for Mac.

Forum Stats
32871 Members
68 Forums
66192 Topics
562265 Posts

Max Online: 2537 @ 01/19/20 07:09 AM
Newest Members
northpointidaho, ccregor, GreenH, JRoot, Ashley U

32872 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
eddie1261 174
VideoTrack 142
Pipeline 126
Janice & Bud 123
Planobilly 112
floyd jane 112
Matt Finley 103
MarioD 103
Jim Fogle 101
rayc 98
Today's Birthdays
chardin, Steve Ducote