Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#535105 - 05/02/19 04:15 AM [Beginners Forum] Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Hello,
This is my first post...

I need to have 6/8 beat for the verse and then 4/4 for the chorus for "Rose of Washington Square". I am entering the chords only.

I read in the forum how 6/8 is the same as 4/4 in triplets but have no idea how to make that work in practice.

Is there a better description or tutorial or something that will show me how to do this? video?

All suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Best regards
Bernt
_________________________
Band in a Box PRO Ver 19 (634) on Windows 7

Top
#535149 - 05/02/19 12:48 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10053
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10053
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Welcome to the forums.

This can probably best be achieved by changing Styles at the correct locations within the song.

Start by choosing the 6/8 style for your song.
Select the bar that the chorus starts, press function key <F5> (or right-click and select Bar Settings), and select a 4/4 style from the .STY button option.

Repeat when you need to revert to 6/8 if it's further along in the song.


Attachments
2019-05-03_05-46-08.jpg


_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#535162 - 05/02/19 02:39 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
berntd Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 82
Loc: Sydney, Australia
That is great advice, thanks.

So the style defines what time signature gets used!

I have not seen any 6/8 styles in what I have here. (2019 PRO edition).
Does that mean I cannot do it or is there another way?

Also, I would like the style to match the type in the 6/8 and 4/4. For example jazz swing.


Regards
Bernt
_________________________
Band in a Box PRO Ver 19 (634) on Windows 7

Top
#535336 - 05/04/19 07:34 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19465
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19465
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
FWIW I'd use Realband for this.
It lets the same style be used over different time signatures better than BiaB in my opinion. Including the use of Time Signatures not even allowed in BiaB (7/4 etc).
You wouldn't need to change styles, just change the time sig for the desired bar(s) and change it back to original after that section, then regenerate.

just a thought
YMMV depending on the style.


Edited by rharv (05/04/19 07:39 AM)
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

Top
#558897 - 10/12/19 06:10 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: rharv]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
Bump

I can't believe there are no styles in 6/8!!! (BIAB2019) How am going to do chord charts for irish or barn dance tunes

Please someone tell me there are.....

Top
#558898 - 10/12/19 06:32 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
Update, just found this

C_CLANCY M 6/8 sw8 120 Clancy (Irish) Style

However, even after setting my style to this in the song, the leadsheet still says 4/4!?!

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Top
#558900 - 10/12/19 06:42 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
a 6/8 style in 4/4 was giving me 12/8 so...Have got the playback timing correct by setting the time sig to 2/4 BUT now the chords in the second half of the bar/measure are missing in the leadsheet?!? Grrrrrrrrrrrr

Top
#558904 - 10/12/19 07:41 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 14081
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 14081
Leave it in 4/4. Then open the style picker and type words in the filter like “Celtic” or “6/8” “12/8” etc and choose a style that fits.

You will then enter up to 4 chords per 4/4 bar, with each bar equivalent to two bars of 6/8.

The notation will show in 4/4, but there is a setting on the notation to switch the display to 6/8, so it looks just like your printed notation books.

The only thing you can’t do is enter chords on different triplets, just the first and fourth triplets of the 6/8 bar.

If musicians are playing Macnamaras Band, they don’t count it in in 6/8 and it’s not hard to count it in 4/4 as you play it. It’s just notation display that’s 6/8. Realizing that opens up a world of style possibilities to mix any 4/4 styles with 6/8 or 12/8.

Jazz swing music is actually 6/8 or 12/8, it is just by convention it is notated in 4/4 with a marking saying the eighth notes are triplets.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

Top
#558905 - 10/12/19 07:46 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon

The only thing you can’t do is enter chords on different triplets, just the first and fourth triplets of the 6/8 bar.


But that's precisely what I do want to do!

In any case, I don't follow what you're saying - a bar a 6/8 only has two triplets in my book. If there are four triplets; that's 12/8, isn't it?

yours totally confused confused

Top
#558907 - 10/12/19 07:50 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 14081
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 14081
A bar of 6/8 has 6 beats strictly speaking.
But you group them in threes, so then it has two groups of triplets. You can put a chord in each of those.

Load up some jig styles and load the songdemo for them and see many examples of how this works.

For example, here are the words for a bar of macnamaras band. Each bracketed group is a beat in 4/4.

[NAME is] [MAC na] [MAR a] [ I’M the ]

_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

Top
#558908 - 10/12/19 08:06 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
A bar of 6/8 has 6 beats strictly speaking.
But you group them in threes, so then it has two groups of triplets. You can put a chord in each of those.

Load up some jig styles and load the songdemo for them and see many examples of how this works.


I understand this and I have loaded a jig style (c-clancy)......so, why did you mention "the first and fourth triplets in 6/8" in your first reply??

Like I said before, I have got the playback timing correct by setting the time sig to 2/4 BUT now the chords in the second half of the bar/measure are greyed out in the main window and completely missing from the leadsheet printout.

To put it another way: 2/4 gets me two triplets in each bar 4/4 gives me four triplets, which I do not want.

I want two triplets and two (different) chords per bar. There must be a way of doing this or do I have to go back to pen and paper?!

Top
#558999 - 10/13/19 02:25 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
I have looked at macnamaras band (zz_irish.sty). It has the same issues as c_clancy.sty. Labelled as 6/8 but displays 4/4 and sounds four triplets per bar, i.e actually 12/8.

I need to be able to change chord every triplet in certain parts of the song.

Top
#561739 - 10/31/19 06:59 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
Bump.

Still haven't got an answer to this.

to recap and paraphrase: how do I get a triplet style like zzirish and c_clancy to play two triplets per bar (measure) and have two chords per bar. i.e. a chord change every triplet

Top
#561744 - 10/31/19 07:38 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
What it appears that you're asking is for Band-in-a-Box to print notation exactly as you want it to appear. If I am wrong, please correct me as I admit I do not have a clear understanding of your intent.

If my understanding is correct then what you are wanting the program to do may not currently be possible. The only way to find out for sure is to continue substituting styles, regenerating and looking at test printouts.

The issue is the primary goal of the Band-in-a-Box program is song arrangement. The program is not as full featured when it comes to printing out notation.

You may find it easier to arrange songs in Band-in-a-Box and save the song as a midi, MusicXML or ABC Notation file and then import the file into a notation program such as +++ Forte +++ or +++ MuseScore +++ .
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 UltraPlusPak BiaB(637) RealBand(Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#561787 - 10/31/19 01:54 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: ricobasso]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15772
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15772
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: ricobasso
Bump.

Still haven't got an answer to this.

to recap and paraphrase: how do I get a triplet style like zzirish and c_clancy to play two triplets per bar (measure) and have two chords per bar. i.e. a chord change every triplet

Hi ricobasso,

In the 2/4 bars, if you want to get one chord on each tripet, use a comma between the chords.

e.g. entering C,F will put C on beat 1 and F on beat 2.

Alternatively, right-click on the chord sheet and open "Chord Settings", this will also allow chord entry on individual beats.

Over the years, I've found that 12/8 styles work pretty well as 6/8 styles. The main difference is that in 12/8 there are four dotted 1/4 note beats with rhythmic strengths of (S)trong (W)eak (M)edium (W)eak (i.e. it's a 4/4 time based on triplets). A 6/8 time signature, on the other hand, has (S)-(W) beats. The (M) beat of 12/8 (i/e beat 3) often doesn't sound all that different to the first (S) beat of 12/8 or 6/8.

Also, given that in a great deal of music, bars are often paired in a Strong/Medium grouping, a 12/8 feel can quite easily come across as 6/8.

Quote:
An example of this (S)-(M) bar grouping is found in the opening bars of Mozart's 40th Symphony. While this is in 2/4, the bar groupings go |(S)|M)|S)|(M)| and give a 4/4 feel.



DIRECT LINK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaUn28PUy8Y

In other words, it's worth trying 12/8 styles because it's possible that they will work for 6/8.

To get the notation in 12/8 to show as 6/8 in print-outs, there is a button in "Notation Editor" that modifies the display to do this. (See the image below.)

Hope that this, in addition to Jim's fine advice above, helps.

Regards,
Noel


Attachments
6-8 time sig.JPG


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#561877 - 11/01/19 02:23 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By: Noel96
In the 2/4 bars, if you want to get one chord on each tripet, use a comma between the chords.


hello Noel and thanks for taking the time to reply. I must be missing something because what you describe above does not work for me.

e.g. I load up ZZIRISH.sty and change the time sig to 2/4 for all bars. The indicated time sig in the top banner does not change from 4/4 but all the bars now have a red underline. If I enter "C,F" it just occupies the first half of the bar. If I "enter C, enter F", the F goes into the second half of the bar but it is greyed out and does not play.

thinks...........Eureka!!!

Maybe, just maybe, I get it. BIAB is actually playing only the first half of each bar while leaving the display showing the full 4 beats/triplets. Well!! What a daft way of doing it and how confusing!!!


Edited by ricobasso (11/01/19 02:24 AM)
Edit Reason: lighbulb emoji dispalyed as a url

Top
#561878 - 11/01/19 02:32 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
Another niggle. If I select 6/8 in the leadsheet window, the original 4/4 or 2/4 does not change until I close and re-open the leadsheet window. Then the 6/8 is displayed twice, before and after the repeat barlines!! Intented or a bug?

Top
#561887 - 11/01/19 03:19 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15772
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15772
Loc: Australia
Hi ricobasso,

What you see as 'bars' on the chord sheet are actually cells - like in Excel. It is the time signature that determines how much of a cell is used.

Each cell has the potential to contain 4 beats. This means that cells align with bars in 4/4 time. In 2/4 time, though, only beats 1 and 2 of the cell are needed. This is why any chord after beat 2 will be greyed out.

Similarly, in 3/4 only beats 1, 2 and 3 are required and so if a chord is placed on beat 4 in 3/4, it will be greyed out.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. Would you mind posting a screen shot of the problem so that I can see it?

The link below explains how to post an image.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=472139#Post472139

Regards,
Noel


_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#561980 - 11/01/19 03:24 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
ricobasso Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 33
here are the screenshots


Attachments
2019-11-01 (1).png

2019-11-01 (2).png

2019-11-01.png




Edited by ricobasso (11/02/19 02:59 AM)

Top
#561983 - 11/01/19 03:59 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Need 6/8 beat and then 4/4 in same song [Re: berntd]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15772
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15772
Loc: Australia
Thanks. Those images help a lot.

That's definitely a bug. I'll pass it onto the developers and reference this thread so that they can see the problem.

To access the "File Manager" to upload graphics, it's necessary to "Switch to full reply screen" -- the button is directly beneath the "Quick Reply" window.
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


PG Music News
New! Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for Band-in-a-Box®!

A brand-new Band-in-a-Box Add-on is HERE!

Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for Band-in-a-Box® 2019 (and higher) expands your loops collection with 100 new loops! Click here to watch our video demonstration.

We've taken the RealDrums and RealTracks source audio and remixed, remastered, and combined it to create these original loops. All of your favorite genres are covered, like jazz, funk, rock, pop, electronic, hip-hop, and more! To show them in action, we've created 50 new RealStyles that each include two of the loops. Plus, if you use the loops in Band-in-a-Box, we've included intelligent versions of the loops that automatically switch at A and B part markers. Each loop has a matching sister loop that works perfectly for another substyle!

ON SALE UNTIL DECEMBER 31st!

Save over 30% when you purchase during our special - add Loops-with-Style PAK 1 to your collection today for just $19!

Click here for more information. Mac user? This new Add-on works for you too! Click here for Mac.

Video - 202 New RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows®!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2020, we've added 202 new RealTracks! These include great Americana, Gospel Vocals, new Blues, Country Pollwinners, Bossa Flute/Horn sections, Jazz Blues and Rhythm Changes, British and Hazy '60s guitars, Modern Funk, Island Grooves with steel drum and marimba, Singer-Songwriter, and more!

Get the newest RealTracks Sets 329-352 when you purchase the PlusPAK upgrade (ideal for 2019 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+ customers) for just $99 during our special (reg. $129).

Want the entire RealTracks collection with over 2,900 RealTracks? They are included with any Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Windows UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Check out this video, which demonstrates the newest RealTracks Sets 329-352.

New Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Add-ons are Here!

Just released for Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac: Xtra Styles PAK 8 and Loops-with-Style PAK 1!

We've added 164 fantastic new RealStyles in Xtra Styles PAK 8! These are imaginative new combinations of our existing RealTracks library that fall into four categories: Rock/Pop 8, Jazz 8, Country 8, and Celtic 1. To celebrate the release of Xtra Styles PAK 8, ALL of our Xtra Styles PAKs 1-8 are on sale for just $29 each! Learn more & listen to demos here.

Also brand-new is our Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for Band-in-a-Box®, which gives you the chance to expand your loops collection with 100 new loops! We've taken the RealDrums and RealTracks source audio and remixed, remastered, and combined it to create these original loops. All of your favorite genres are covered like jazz, funk, rock, pop, electronic, hip-hop, and more! To show them in action, we've created 50 new RealStyles that each include two of the loops. Plus, if you use the loops in Band-in-a-Box, we've included intelligent versions of the loops that automatically switch at A and B part markers. Each loop has a matching sister loop that works perfectly for another substyle! Get started with Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for the introductory price of just $19 until December 31st (reg: $29). Learn more & watch a great video demonstration here.

Note: Xtra Styles PAK 8 and Loops-with-Style PAK 1 require the Band-in-a-Box® 2019 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2020 - Everything you need to know in under 6 minutes!* (plus the 49-PAK!)

It's HERE! Take a quick tour of the just-released Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows when you check out our latest video:
Band-in-a-Box® 2020 - Everything you need to know in under 6 minutes!* (plus the 49-PAK!)


Read more about this new version here, and check out our amazing upgrade pricing (up to 50% off during our special!) here!

Great New Content in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows®!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows is here! Limited Time Special Offers Until December 31, 2019 - SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2020 for Windows Upgrade packages... and that's not all! When you buy version 2020 for Windows before December 31, 2019, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020, Band-in-a-Box® VST DAW Plugin 2020 and RealBand 2020 - Over 50 new features!
- We have information about the program here.
- Specific information about the features is here.
- Ordering and info about the pacakages and pricing is available here.

Plus, there is a HUGE amount of new content...
- 202 new RealTracks, description and audio demos: click here.
- Xtra Styles Set 8 for Band-in-a-Box®, (description and video demos): Learn more...
- Loops-with-Style Set 1 for Band-in-a-Box®: product description and video demo.
- Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Learn more...
- Bonus 49 Pak (with 40 RealTracks)! Learn more...
- 2 new MIDI SuperTrack Sets - Learn more...
- 280 Drums RealCharts (previously had only 22, now have transcriptions for half of all of the 600 audio RealDrums)
- 5 Instrumental Studies Sets - Learn more...
- Two new all MIDI styles sets "Look-Ma! More MIDI" Sets 3 and 4 (30 MIDI styles) audio demos: Learn more...

Plus,the Online (or PDF) manual for the full program, or just the new features, are available here.

RealBand 2020 is Here!

RealBand 2020 is here, and is included free with Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows!

There are over 20 additions to RealBand, including intelligent Audio-Harmonies (1-4 voice), Scrub Mode, mixer enhancements, open MusicXML .musicxml and .xml, easier transpose, RealTracks, RealDrums sound improvements, and more!

RealBand 2020 New Features include:

Darker Grid Lines
Grid lines in Tracks and Audio Edit windows are drawn in a darker color instead of white.

Auto-hide Grid Lines
RealBand will auto-hide grid lines when they are within a certain number of pixels of each other.

Audio Scrub Mode
The new audio scrub button in the Audio Edit window lets you click and drag to hear a section of audio.

Shift key for moving multiple volume sliders and pan knobs
If moving a volume slider while pressing the Shift key, then any other selected tracks' sliders will also move. This applies to Tracks and Mixer windows.

...and more!

For the complete list of new features included in RealBand 2020, click here, and choose the "RealBand 2020" Tab.

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows - Upgrade Today to Save Up to 50%!

Just released: Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows with over 50 new features, 202 New RealTracks, new RealStyles, 15 new MIDI SuperTracks, 170 new Instrumental Studies, 30 new MIDI Styles, 280 RealDrums Transcriptions, the 2020 Free Bonus PAK, 2020 49-PAK, and new Xtra Styles PAK 8!

We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2019 - save up to 50% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows Upgrade!

We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2020 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks) upgrade it to the 2020 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

Learn more about all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows at: www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!

Forum Stats
30557 Members
65 Forums
61340 Topics
517701 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
peterspring, Forgie, Frax, Greg T, grbeaner

30557 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
VideoTrack 305
Matt Finley 226
Pipeline 188
Noel96 172
MarioD 149
PeterGannon 139
Torrey Bliss 137
Jim 128
jford 120
jpettit 119
Today's Birthdays
EvaWELLS, fred-03, james.garcia