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jonel Offline OP
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Hi All,
If have discovered the RealBand feature that lets me generate a track selection from a loop. This has got some really fantastic possibilities for me, especially as the loop can be made to follow the chord root of the chords specified on the chord sheet. I do have a reasonable library of Acidized loops to work with, but I have also got a vast range of non Acidized loops that I would like to work with in RealBand.
This is where I felt that the Render menu option of 'Acidize this .WAV' would come in handy, especially as it does not require the file to be actually loaded. So, armed with the tempo, key of and time signature of the loop, I used this option on my loop, having opted to also copy the acidized loop to the Loops folder.

When I come to generate a track from this loop, I find it in the Loops folder, but when I select it, it doesn't show the Acidized details. I have to fill these in again. I thought the whole point of making the file acidized is that it already contained all this detail.
Also, I noticed that the Loops folder containing the 'acidized' files also contained files with the extension .bt - is this acidized information? If so, then how is that used?

Any help will be gratefully received.

John

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John,

When I looked at the PG Music loops folder at X:\bb\RealTracks\Loops where X = the storage drive letter I see each loop is composed of a group of three types of files; wav, bt6 and txt.

I looked at the contents of each file. The bt6 file appears to identify the wav file as an Acidized loop. The wav file contains the audio and the txt file provides the tempo, key, beats and time signature data. I've included screen shots of each file.

The three file group per loop is consistent for all the loops provided by PG Music. This is also similar with how files should be grouped when UserTracks are created. The main difference is a bt2 (instead of bt6) file is automatically created by the program the first time a UserTrack is imported into a song file. RealTracks require an audio file (wav or wma) and a bt1 file but do not need a text file.

So in summary I can say I've provided a lot of interesting information but I did not answer your question. The best answer I can give you is I don't know.

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
Clipboard01.jpg (151.71 KB, 193 downloads)
A highlighted group of a loop files.
Clipboard02.jpg (13.67 KB, 193 downloads)
bt6 file opened with Notepad
Clipboard03.jpg (90.91 KB, 192 downloads)
wav file opened with media info.
Clipboard04.jpg (53.83 KB, 191 downloads)
txt file opened with Notepad.

Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK
DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8
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jonel Offline OP
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Thank you very much Jim. By using the 'acidize WAV' command I end up with a .bt1 and a .bt6, neither of which would appear to carry much information, but I'm guessing one of them is holding the acidized data. I will look again tomorrow at what is actually generated when use the command and what is generated when I populate the data myself. It seems to me that it is not working as intended because my set of Sony ACID loops works exactly as expected - that is, when I open the file to put the loop on a track, it is populated as expected and these files do not have any auxiliary files, only the WAV.

Thanks

John

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Free Acidizer.zip to run on Win10 set the Acidizer.exe > right click > Properties > Compatibility > Win7

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jonel Offline OP
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Thanks. I've given it a try but somehow it doesn't want to know the WAV files I drag over to it!

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The Windows 10 I tried it on originally worked fine then they updated something and it now dosn't work ???
I will look more into it and let you know if I find a solution.
I think you can still download and register free ACID Express
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Audio/Audio-Editors-Recorders/ACID-XPress.shtml

Last edited by Pipeline; 11/13/19 03:34 PM.
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jonel Offline OP
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Thanks Pipeline. I was able to download and register ACID Express. I t was very useful in opening my loops and confirming their ACID details, but I can't see how I can inset ACID details into a non-Acid loop.

But, since I can see the status of the loop that I Acidized in RealBand, I can confirm that the acid details are in the file - root note, tempo etc. But when this loop is opened by RealBand the ACID details are not shown. If a 'real' ACID loop is opened then the details are fully populated.

So, the details need to be entered when the acidization occurs and the AGAIN when the loop is being generated into the track. This latter move is only required the first time though.


Regards

John

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John,

One thing I'll mention is I used RealBand to create a two bar loop from a highlighted segment of a track and it appears RealBand created a legitimate Acidized loop. The command I used was Render > Export Acid Loop.

The wav audio file was given a label similar to the track name and no extra (bt1, bt6 or txt) files were created. I imported the audio file into a trial copy of Celemony's Melodyne Essentials and the program settings correctly reflected the root chord, key signature, tempo and number of beats.

RealBand noticed the musical phrase I highlighted extended a little beyond the beginning and ends of the bars and gave me the choice to either include or exclude the audio extensions.

Another freebie that can create Acidized loops is Cakewalk by BandLab. Only Cakewalk calls them "Groove Clips"; go figure.


Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK
DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8
Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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jonel Offline OP
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Thanks Jim. I, too, have used that feature successfully. The problem I really have is in acidizing a non-acid loop and getting RealBand to recognise those features you mention - tempo and chord root. I have gone around the houses several times with this and here is the issue I face:

1. When I use the 'acidize this WAV file' in RealBand I set the tempo and chord root of the loop. Now when I try to import this 'acidized' loop on to a track in RealBand the chord root and tempo are not listed on the form so I have to enter these again. That means I really have to save the file to include these parameters because when I use these in the future I will have to re-assess what these are.
2. I used Sonar X3 in Clip Construction View to create a Sonar Groove Clip. Amazingly this works ... sometimes. What I mean there is that sometimes when I use my Sonar Groove Clip in RealBand the form will sometimes contain the root chord and tempo and other times not.
3. Pipeline from this forum helpfully mentioned ACID Express 7.0 and I downloaded this. At last I was able to at least see that ALL the clips that I had acidized in RealBand and Sonar WERE really ACIDized. I was also able to to ACIDize a loop with ACID Express and confirm that it was ACIDized and this loop would sometimes populate the RealBand form and other times not.

So, the bottom line for me is that RealBand, Sonar and ACID Express do all consistently ACIDize the target loop but the reporting of this in RealBand is distinctly inconsistent.
I am going to examine the ACIDized WAV data for these to see if there is something that stands out. I am just thinking at the moment, as I write this post, that perhaps it may not be reported by RealBand if it doesn't actually agree that the loop conforms to the stated chord root or original tempo (but that's desperation talking - lol)

Thanks Jim

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Vista Compatibly mode seems to have fixed it, let me know if it works for you.
I uploaded the Acidizer.zip to the PG server so it is still here down the track.
Just remove the .mp4 extension, you may have to set Explorer to Show File Extensions.

Acidizer.zip.mp4

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jonel Offline OP
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I'm not sure if anybody can see this properly. What I've done is to take a standard ACID loop file
(on the left) which I use in RealBand as a track. When I insert that as a loop I get the chord root and tempo shown on the form which is pre-populated.

The right-hand file shows the properties of a loop to which I have added ACID properties using ACID Express. I can't see anything radically different in the properties of these two files, and yet the right hand file will not show the chord root or tempo.


If anybody can point out why RealBand treats these differently. Unless there are other properties that are not visible.


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I see a few things interesting.
Your post implies the one on the right doesn't work, right?

It has specific data in the bottom fields under Acid Information that the left file doesn't have.

Another thing I notice is the file path in the left file contains a period in a folder path; I could see this wreaking havoc in some scenarios. The dot usually occurs before the file extension, not in a folder name. But if I read your post right, you say that one does work and the other one in the RealTracks\Loops folder doesn't?

FWIW, loops stopped working for me altogether recently in RB, so I can't really test anything to help.
Just noticing what you posted.


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I just tested the "generate a loop" command in 2019 RealBand build 5. The program lets me select a loop but then the selection window disappears and nothing else happens.

Jonel, it seems the "generate a loop" command is broken. It looks like you've discovered an issue. I apologize for being so dense and not realizing this until now.


Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK
DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8
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jonel Offline OP
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Thanks for all the replies. I think RealBand is working well on ACIDization but has got that slight glitch for me. After I ACIDize a file using the RB Render command I have already told RB the beats (time signature) and the chord root. So, I expect that when I use the RB command to generate a track section from a loop that the form will already have the the chord root populated. This is not the case. The ACID properties do show the file is actually ACIDdized at this point but is beatmapped as opposed to a loop.
When I generate a track from the loop I now have to populate that chord root AGAIN (In my view a redundant step). But this step would appear to put the chord root into an auxiliary files with the same name as the loop but with the file extensions .bt1 aand .bt6. So I don't think the loop contains any more information since, if I delete the .bt1 file I revert it back to having no chord root information)

If this is how RB works then that is OK because I just have to remember to the initial ACIDize simply sets a property in the WAV but does not include any other information. It is only when I generate a track from the loop that I will have to enter the extra details (but this only happens that first time) when a subsequent track is made from this loop then the details WILL be populated in the form (so a long as bt1 and bt6 are there - maybe that is the reason why the WAVs must be stored in that fixed loop folder).


But here is the thing! If I select a Sony ACIDized loop when I generate a track, ALL the details are populate and there is NO auxialry bt1 and bt6 files. I need to investigate why that is.

With regard to comments about 'loops being broken' and no form coming up in RB 2019 when generating a track from a loop, well I think I'll steer clear up of the upgrade now.

The ability to generate a track or track section from a loop is the most valuable feature I have in RB and would appear to be unique in allowing the chord progression to directly influence the loop. If I don't have that then I am fully reliant on BIAB stles. So I'll stick with 2017.

John

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Did anyone try the Acidizer in Vista Compatibly mode ??

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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Did anyone try the Acidizer in Vista Compatibly mode ??


I'll try to get to that today Pipeline (In the meantime I need to update OP on how I got this working in RB).

Edit: I actually should have read the whole thread first, lol. I will try what you advise Pipeline, and post an update shortly.


Last edited by DeaconBlues09; 11/17/19 10:48 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
Did anyone try the Acidizer in Vista Compatibly mode ??


It works!!!

I confess I'm a bit confused as to precisely what OP wants to achieve here (I ask because I'd like to test it out in Acidizer). Is the problem with third party loops or with loops exported/acidized in RB?


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