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Am I missing it or is there nowhere to download backing tracks for jazz standards into BIAB? Seems like this should be an obvious and high demand function and I can't find it.
I just bought the iReal Pro app for my Android and in one click I downloaded 1,350 jazz standards. Boom, ready to go! Surely this same functionality is available for BIAB? What's the deal?
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Welcome.
BiaB is designed to create your own backing tracks. It doesn't come with an internal library of jazz (or other) standards. However, there are also many MIDI and native BiaB files of backing tracks available on the web that would open directly into BiaB.
Just use your favorite search engine and search for 'BiaB MIDI Jazz standards'
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Thanks, I found a decent collection here: http://www.justchords.de/docs/biab/index.htmlBut this is a random way to about things! Why doesn't BIAB do what iReal Pro has done, to curate collection of jazz standards? $14 bucks at iReal Pro and its done. I'd prefer to use BIAB b/c I have monitors hooked up to my PC, and the Real Tracs are great. But for ease of use, seems like my next move is to somehow get the iReal pro feed into my PC.
Last edited by tzundel@gmail.co; 01/29/20 08:44 PM.
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BIAB is for creating your own backing tracks although as VideoTrack says you can download midis from the internet. There are even BIAB song sites where you can downlaod other people's versionsd of standard songs in the BIAB format. In fact, BIAB is not the best midi file player if that is all you want. RealBand would be better so you can more easily edit individual tracks.
But why should BIAB stop at jazz standards? why not country? why not pop? why not blues?
the list is endless and it's not really what BIAB is for. for $14 another company seems to have what you want sewn up - so why should BIAB get into markets it's not designed for?
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What the replies seem to have missed is that iRealPro is essentially the same idea as BIAB. Nothing like as powerful, but you give it a list of chords and a style and it plays you a backing track. As mentioned by the OP, iRealPro makes it easy to download a file of c1400 "standards" to get you started. This saves an awful lot of typing and something similar for BIAB could be really useful for beginners.
There are archives around. I have downloaded several over the years, but don't remember where from. There used to be "fake book" files shipped with BIAB, I'm not sure if they still are. Some of the forums here also have songs. But none of this is easy.
As requested by the OP, a simple way of getting a large number of "standards" would be quite useful for beginners.
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Sorry if I missed the point. The O/P started the post by asking "Am I missing it or is there nowhere to download backing tracks for jazz standards into BIAB?"
I answered as best I could. No doubt other programs can also deliver solutions, but I was just trying to answer how to find songs to download for use in BiaB.
There definitely is a simple way of getting a large number of "standards" that can be used. The www is the answer.
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There still are Fake Books but they are not by PG Music, instead they are by Norton Music. I call them Fake Disks because the used to come on floppy disks. They are now instant download, but I still call them disks because I don't know what else to call them. Chord progressions of popular and unpopular songs, appropriate style suggested for each song, and with no melody or lyrics. I do them with 'off the shelf' music books so you can open the book, load the BiaB file and play along if you don't know the melody. On each of the following linked pages there is a complete song list and one or more "free samples". For the free samples, looked for the linked titles in the song lists. Complete listing of my fake 'disks' are here: http://www.nortonmusic.com/contents.html#fakeJazz standards (and the name of the books associated with them): http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake37.html (The Real Book) http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake41.html (European Jazz Book) http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake35.html The (Sher) Standards Book http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake24.html The "New Real Book" (Sher) Vol.1 http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake25.html Vol.2 http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake26.html Vol.3 http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake21.html Real Standards Fake Book http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake17.html The Real Jazz Book http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake5.html The Ultimate Jazz Fake Book Plus two chord substitution disks for standards by Dick Hyman and five by Frank Mantooth. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
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& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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if there is a gap in the market, Norton Music probably have it filled but not for $14. I still stick with my point that you can't draw the line at jazz so why not other genres? but for $14 i can't see it being worth PG Music getting involved when the world wide web has midis of just about everything for free
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Am I missing it or is there nowhere to download backing tracks for jazz standards into BIAB? Seems like this should be an obvious and high demand function and I can't find it.
I just bought the iReal Pro app for my Android and in one click I downloaded 1,350 jazz standards. Boom, ready to go! Surely this same functionality is available for BIAB? What's the deal? This is funny. You are the very first one I've seen on this forum in 12 years who would be happy with just the chords to jazz standards. This question has come up many, many times before but everybody wants the melody and/or lyrics. Melody and lyrics are copywritten and cannot be included which is why iRealPro only has chords but even they do not produce those chord charts as a company, they're all provided by users on their forum. They're worried about copyright too because they're linking song titles to the chords so they use users to get around that. That sounds sketchy to me if push came to shove and they got busted for copyright violations. And that is one of the problems with iRealPro, many of their chords are incorrect but it's because they're done by amateur users. I use that app too and find it helpful but still, lots of errors there. You'll find lots of errors in Biab songfiles as well for the same reason. They're done by users, not pros. If you want correct and professional songs with everything correct you have to buy midi files from the well known websites that sell those. Notes Norton is a long time professional gigging musician so I'm pretty sure his Fake Book songfiles are correct as well. Free or very cheap means you get what you pay for, if you want them correct then that costs money. When it comes to using actual song titles PG Music won't go that far either because they're also worried about copyright. I'm not a copyright expert but using a classic song title for the name of a different song is a grey area. Imagine if someone came up with a completely original song and called it Hotel California or Thriller. Think their might be a problem with that? Who knows but what small company wants to take that chance? All those classic jazz songs still have valid copyrights and owned by somebody, if not the original artist then their estates or someone else like Sony Music bought them up. If they get sued look at the time and legal costs involved. Maybe they win just on the song title issue, who knows but they don't want to mess with that. Therefore, in the Biab demo songs there are a ton of standard jazz chord changes but not with the actual song title. They use another title for the demo song. So no, PGM is not about to rename those demo songs with the real titles those chords go with. What we've all done is what was already said, Google is your friend and you can find them all but it's a bit of work. Bob
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Bob This is not an ad for iRealPro, I don’t own it, I don’t use it. That aside, even the actual Real Books have a “few” errors and they were supposedly put together by (top?) music school grad students (not sure how true those stories are either –  ) Funny this (topic) has just came up because lately when I go to a lot of my subscribed to YouBoob channels (firearms, electronics, math/ astronomy/ physics, even political sties) the first ad that seems to come up is the following about jazz books (I’m not sure what site(s) I have visited that caused the Google/youtube ad AI to think it should replace my other non-music ads with by this one - LOL) https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=48&v=j7Xnuvj9gG0&feature=emb_logoI’m half tempted to buy a volume just to see how faithful they are to Real Books, if THEY correct some errors in the Real Books – or they just “analyze” the same progressions error(s) and all. And another recent topic just happened this past weekend. I was looking for the ORIGINAL, very old, and very familiar and well known “All of Me” in MP3, or Youtube, or sheetmusic/score anything that included the ENTIRE tune introduction and all. I finally found the original 1931 recording (sung by Ruth Etting) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz_zeJM-5-Abut when looking for “All of Me” it kept popping up John Legend’s “All of Me” a completely different tune but with SAME TITLE so I guess new tunes with non-original titles are allowed(?). IMHO Legend should have called his “All of Me (Modern So-So)” Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/31/20 08:45 AM.
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............
but when looking for “All of Me” it keep popping up John Legend’s “All of Me” a completely different tune but with SAME TITLE so I guess new tunes with non-original titles are allowed(?).
IMHO Legend should have called his “All of Me (Modern So-So)”
Larry
Song titles can not be copyrighted: https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-you-copyright-a-song-title-and-the-lyrics-with-459057.html{edit} Larry, you have a PM.
Last edited by MarioD; 01/30/20 01:54 PM.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
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And this causes no end of problems when the publishing rights organizations like BMI, ASCAP, SoundExchange etc. try to sort royalties out.
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Yea I thought we had had that discussion (re: titles) once before but I'm old now so I forget - what exactly goes out first - Larry
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Hey, Larry. Did I say the Real Books are correct? I must have zoned that out...
And it's irrelevant that it appears you can't copyright song titles. We're not talking just the titles alone, where talking the titles AND the chords. Many songs use one chord for each melody note or maybe half of them or whatever. What then? The chords are part of the melody. Hmmmm. Who wants to get sued and have to go to court to prove it especially someone who's running a well known commercial company?
When it comes to fakebooks the beauty and problem with jazz is it's well, jazz. Every good player will use different chord subs, different voicings, different bass lines. There is no one correct way to play any of those tunes. Just watch YT vids about how to play Misty or Green Dolphin Street on piano or guitar. You'll find 10 good players doing it 10 different ways. Similar but different, it's jazz.
You can't blame the music majors who transcribed those chords because it's for fakebook format. They're not transcribing a recording perfectly, that's not it's purpose. The book says the first chord of Misty is Ebmaj7 for four beats. Is that what Errol Garner played? No. What he really played won't even fit on a single page fakebook chart. A master pianist is chording and reharmonizing every note of the melody plus adding little embellishment but all that is basically over Ebmaj7, and diminished, and an 11th and a tritone, and... But, boil it down everybody agrees the tonality is Ebmaj7.
The purpose of a fakebook chart is to give you the basic outline of the song and the basic chord structure. That's it. Everything else is up to the player. If you want it correct you have to buy the correctly transcribed 3 or 4 page sheet music of Misty. That's not fitting into a fakebook and you can't enter all that into Biab either. But what Biab will do is take that Ebmaj7 chord and do some of it's own embellishments.
Sometimes the books do get it wrong. Footprints is an example. The basic chords are simple. Cm11, Fm9. Then comes the turnaround. The books all say Ebm to Dm. Not correct. It's actually F#, F, E, A but those four chords are half diminished and altereds. Those chords are following the melody. They can be played all kinds of similar but different ways. Listen to the various versions of that tune and nobody is just doing Eb to D. How or why the books all say that is beyond me.
Bob
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if there is a gap in the market, Norton Music probably have it filled but not for $14. I still stick with my point that you can't draw the line at jazz so why not other genres? but for $14 i can't see it being worth PG Music getting involved when the world wide web has midis of just about everything for free The fake disks I sell are nothing but a time saver for you. It takes hundreds of hours to get the fake disks to sound as good as they do, and really, that is what you are paying for. You can buy the fake books I used, enter the published chord changes, find the best style, check it, fix your typo errors, check it again, make minor changes to make it work better with BiaB, check it again, and put your own fake disk together. The books I use are from major publishers. That doesn't mean the chord changes are exactly right, but they are much better than most people who used his/her ears and published the chords somewhere on the 'net for free. Case in point. A good customer asked for "Another Day In Paradise" by Bertie Higgins. An old soft rock song that meant something to him. I couldn't find the chords on the 'net, and couldn't download the sheet music either. I listened, put my guess at the chords and then asked on a musician forum if anyone knew the song. About a dozen different guesses came up. We were all close but disagreeing. I found a used copy on the sheet music on an auction site (ebay I think) and bought it. None of us were right, and it isn't a very difficult song. With Jazz it gets even harder to get the correct chords with your ear. I prefer to go with published chords as they are usually either spot on or close to the correct chords. Often especially with jazz standards, the original chords were notated for ukuleles thus limited to 4 notes. Many of the fake books have expanded that for piano/guitar and many of them use more contemporary chords. If I want a chord substitution, I want to make the choice, know why I'm making the sub, and compare both to be sure the sub is better to my ears than the original. The Real Book (6th edition) fixed most of the errors of the pirate Real Books that were riddled with errors. A couple of the Hal Leonard books slightly simplify them, the chord sub books put the contemporary chords and the author's substitutions, and especially the Sher books strive to stick to the contemporary agreed on correct chords. If you want free, in most instances you get what you pay for. If you buy the books and do it yourself, it takes a lot of time. If you buy from me you save that time. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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iReal pro doesn’t compare well with Norton’s disks. The iRealpro’s are simplified, contain some common mistakes, but are not bad for practicing. Same goes for all the free biab-files around the Net. Not accurate, wrong, missing bars, funny turnarounds and a lack of correct chord spelling.
It may look like Bob Norton is tooting his own horn, here (no pun was intended, whatsoever...), but I care to comment.
Norton’s fake disks are totally different: professionally done, correct, give you all the chord extensions and reharmonizations you can find in the real books. They also provide you with all the correct repeats, al coda’s...
The New Real Book files are the sweetest, in my opinion. Very complete, as correct as possible, totally well done and with all the Bill Evans Changes as written.
I hesitated before buying any at first, but when I saw how nicely they were made, I bought most of the jazz disks, over a longer period, of course. Couldn’t buy them all in one go, I’m not in that financial category. But they are worth every penny.
And they work on every Biab version (from 2012 version as far as I know, but maybe earlier...)
Free or cheap on the net is mostly the same as in real life...
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums. Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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...
Free or cheap on the net is mostly the same as in real life...
...
Absolutely well said. Generally speaking, you only get what you pay for.
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I've been away for quite a while, I'm glad Bob is still here. His 'disks' are great. As a working, performing musician, he knows what is needed and his disks, and his older MIDI-based styles are worth the time, effort and money.
Since BIAB moved to Real Drums and RealTracks, I'm not so sure that his older MIDI-based Styles are as popular as they once where, but he has some stuff that just isn't out there in RealTracks land. With the high quality of sampled sounds today, they can be just as relevant today as they were ten years ago.
Glad to see you're still around. I hope that Leilani and you are still together still out doing the musical scene.
Gary
Last edited by Gary Curran; 02/17/20 08:11 PM.
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Hey, Gary, it has been a long time. Hope all is well with you.
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Hi Gary! Welcome back.
And, Norton styles? +1
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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