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#580888 - 02/14/20 06:42 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] PAT file collections? Pointers?
Registered: 01/01/18
Posts: 3
Loc: BC
Kevin Fraser Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/01/18
Posts: 3
Loc: BC
I suspect there's a long thread somewhere... Please feel free to point.

Are there any collections of PAT files available for VSTis? I'm running in to the problem of a VSTi (in this case SONIVOX EightyEight 2.5) selecting the nth 1-based patch in its list in response to the GM program change sent by BiaB on any playback start presumably from the style definition.

I seem to be able to confirm this result by watching the MIDI monitor filtering for program changes on MIDI ch 2 output and playing from different MIDI styles. Seems to me this is what a PAT file is for (yay me!).

Any PAT file pointers? Because I really want to remove this continual trip-up in my workflow, for each of my VSTis. It's been driving me crazy for over two years and it's time I fixed it. I'd be happy to share my PAT files too if I have to make them myself.

Using the same technique I'm also seeing a forced Main Volume Control change on playback that removes my ability to alter the BiaB mixer level: it just resets to 90 (CC value 80) on each playback.

I presume the PAT file format would let me map the appropriate CC events for a given VSTi as well. Hoping someone can just point me to a collection of ten zillion .PAT FILE MEGAHITZ!
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#580908 - 02/14/20 08:07 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: PAT file collections? Pointers? [Re: Kevin Fraser]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Welcome to the forum.

A .PAT file in the context of BIAB is like an .INI file to Cakewalk by BandLab and, I suspect, other DAWs. Its function is to translate the output of a program to the correct patch (sound) in a hardware MIDI synth. I’ve written several. But this doesn’t seem at all what you are describing.
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#580934 - 02/15/20 12:24 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: PAT file collections? Pointers? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 01/01/18
Posts: 3
Loc: BC
Kevin Fraser Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/01/18
Posts: 3
Loc: BC
Hey Matt I appreciate the reply thanks! (one-time brass player too btw). I started using MIDI in 1986 but it was a lot simpler then and I guess I need to study up.

As an immediate workaround, do you (or perhaps anyone reading) know if there's a settings checkbox somewhere to make a channel stop outputting a CC program change, CC volume change, etc... at the start of playback?

I mean I can always just edit the MIDI afterwards, but I'm trying to pull the slide of my workflow towards me, not push it away... if you get my drift... Which obviously, you would.
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#580970 - 02/15/20 06:26 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: PAT file collections? Pointers? [Re: Kevin Fraser]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19588
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19588
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
https://www.pgmusic.com/support_miscellaneous.htm

I don't think it will solve your problem but that's a link to the PAT file collection.
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#580990 - 02/15/20 09:17 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: PAT file collections? Pointers? [Re: Kevin Fraser]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Now I think you may be describing a SYSEX file. To my knowledge, BIAB doesn’t support that. There is a pull-down in the Preferences, MIDI Driver dialog box to select a specific protocol like General MIDI, Roland, Yamaha etc. but again, I don’t think this is what you want.

Perhaps send an email to support@pgmusic.com If no one else answers satisfactorily.
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile; [& 2019 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#581147 - 02/16/20 08:38 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: PAT file collections? Pointers? [Re: Kevin Fraser]
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1325
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
MountainSide Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1325
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
Good morning Kevin and welcome to our forum!

A couple of thoughts as I use MIDI quite a bit as you can imagine from my sig below. The way I look at things PAT (or INI) files and CC commands are quite different from each other.

With PAT files, you can select the patch you want from a listing of patches that your VSTi or "hard" synth supports while still in BIAB / RB or other DAW that you might be using. In other words, the PAT file allows you to select a patch...that's it...no regards to sound levels, reverb, modulation, etc.

The world of MIDI really opens up when you start using CC's (change controls or continuous controllers). There are up to 127 of these with values from 0 to 127, although your synth or VSTi might not support all of them....many don't and some synths and VSti's support these in non-traditional or synth/VSti specific ways depending on the manufacturer. These can control volume, modulation, panning, reverb patch changes and many other parameters of the sound.

They don't change the patch as the items in the PAT do, but they modify what you hear. You can find many lists of standard CC commands on the internet, but keep in mind your specific synth or VSTi may use these in non-standard ways or use "undefined" CC's in a particular way.

From my experience, in using and modifying these, its difficult to do in BIAB. While you can see these scroll by using BIAB's midi monitor, its difficult to modify or change them in BIAB. This is where RB or your DAW come in. In these its easy to modify, change, add or delete the CC's to any parameter you need.

The best part, if your working in BIAB and want to change the CC's, is to open the BIAB file in Realband (RB) which opens "native" BIAB files.

Go to the "Event List" in RB (up there on the top row to the left) and you can see the CC's on each track and modify, add or delete these as needed. Then do a "save as" and save the modified file as a BIAB file (either MGU or SGU). Just don't save it as a RB SEQ file, if you do that BIAB won't be able to open the SEQ file again.

The go back into BIAB and open the file as normal and your CC's will be changed.

Another way of going about this is to open the file in RB and using the Event List...strip out (delete) the CC's for say volume, reverb or panning, then save the file, again in BIAB format. Go back into BIAB. Since you stripped these out in RB, now you can control and change these levels in BIAB using the BIAB mixer. Doing this, when you re-save the BIAB file the Mixer settings will also be saved. Big tip here, this will only work if you have gone into BIAB, click on "FILE' go down to "SAVE SPECIAL, click on "SAVE SONG WITH PATCHES AND HARMONIES" and then click the check mark "SAVE ALL SETTINGS WITH SONGS". This is a global command for all songs you save with BIAB so once its set your go to go with all future songs you chnange.

Again welcome to the forum. Have questions? Ask away, us users are more than happy to help.

Jeff
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Win10, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB current 2020 builds, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive Touch, Kontakt 5.8, SampleTank 4.09

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