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#580740 - 02/13/20 06:29 PM [Off-Topic] Could we talk about audio editors?
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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I still use Adobe Audition 1.5 daily. It's adapted from the old Cool Edit Pro. I know it cold and it does most of what I want. It's ancient by now.

Yes, I also use a DAW, but for many purposes, it's good to have a stereo file editor.

Adobe Audition has two main drawbacks:

1) it crashes a lot, especially when the full file is not in view
2) it does not understand the newest plugins, like VST3 (and I've converted to 64-bit in just about everything)

I also have Adobe Audition 3, but it suffers from bloat, won’t share ASIO and also doesn't recognize VST3 plugins.

So I just tried the demo versions of WaveLab Elements and SoundForge.

What a difference! WaveLab (by Steinberg) makes you jump through registration hoops, but the program just looks modern and handles all my plugins.

Sound Forge looked functional but felt 'old'. It reminded me of another program you might know. And although it comes with extensive effects, I could not figure out how to add my plugins. The look and feel of the program did not inspire me to try further.

So, if you are still with me, what are you using? Is anyone here using WaveLab? Anyone using Sound Forge? Still suffering with Audition? Something else? Yes, I'm familiar with Audacity; I need something much more powerful.


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#580741 - 02/13/20 06:31 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 01/14/02
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Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
rockstar_not Online   content
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#580743 - 02/13/20 06:38 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
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rockstar_not Online   content
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Can you be specific about the editing needs? I used to use ancient versions of Cool Edit Pro, Goldwave and Sound Forge. But ever since I started using Tracktion as my DAW in early 2000’s, I find the built in audio clip editor does everything I need it to do. The ability to drag VSTs directly onto the clip for non destructive editing is a really cool feature, drag over cross fading, one touch fades of linear, exponential and sigmoid types, etc. Inside the DAW. What is it you are needing?

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#580749 - 02/13/20 07:20 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/20/16
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Teunis Offline
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I tend to use a DAW (Reaper or Cakewalk) or maybe Melodyne but for a bit of simple manipulation I have used Audacity for years. Audacity is free, very commonly used with a lot of addons that make it reasonably versatile. Given the common usage it has a lot of info on various tasks if you need it.

Tony
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#580751 - 02/13/20 07:42 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 08/08/06
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Rob Helms Offline
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Matt are you trying to work on one song file or a group of them?

If I were just trying to exit one song I would just do that in my DAW. I used to use a couple audio editors. Gave them up cause it didn’t seem to help. Cakewalk has some pretty decent audio tools.

If I am trying to master a group of songs I use the project page in studio one.
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#580752 - 02/13/20 08:12 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Thanks, everyone. As many of you know, there may be lots of overlap between a DAW and a powerful stereo editor. Adobe Audition could even be considered a DAW when in multitrack mode. I tend to work in a DAW when recording or assembling multiple tracks. Then I normally work with the exported stereo file for final tweaking in a stereo audio editor. Specifics are different, as each project requires its own approach.

Also, inertia is a powerful deterrent to switching tools. I’ve used Audition or its predecessor daily for over thirty years.
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#580754 - 02/13/20 09:02 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/04/00
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Loc: New Mexico
Larry Kehl Offline
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Matt,

I hardly ever use it, I find Audacity is faster for the few times I edit audio files, but I have Soundforge (11), it came with the Samplitude Pro Suite when they were offering it at "fire sale prices" (when Gibson dropped Sonar). I have used it but not alot.

to get at and use your VST's use:

"View -> Plug-in Manager" (or CTRL+Atl+1) to find your VSTs and apply them to waveform or parts thereof

and "View -> Plug-in Chain" (or Ctrl+Alt+0) to create a chain of FX's. The Chain can be named and saved

I think you already figured out the Options -> Preferences is where you add paths for your VST's

Again I don't use it much.


IMHO - If you don't already have a version of Soundforge that works or that you want to upgrade from then the price relative to free Audacity or $99 Wavelab (BTW Steinberg has ALWAYS been a PITA when it comes to making you hop-jump), or just using your DAW (as you already know and mentioned) would not be worth it unless you do a significant amount of wavefile/audio editing.


good luck
Larry
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#580757 - 02/13/20 09:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 1674
Loc: Way too close to Palm Springs,...
Tobias Offline
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Reaper and Audacity.
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#580762 - 02/14/20 02:06 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 2911
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
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I still use Audition V1.5 here daily both for recording and editing audio.

I also have Audition V3.0, which I used as my DAW until I switched over to Reaper a few years ago.

I've never found a program that allows me to quickly and seamlessly punch in notes like Audition 1.5 can, and that's something I do quite often. Which is quite remarkable, considering how old the program is!

I don't need it to understand modern plugins, the plugins get added to the file once it's in Reaper.

Originally Posted By: Matt Finley


Also, inertia is a powerful deterrent to switching tools. I’ve used Audition or its predecessor daily for over thirty years.


Yes, very true! Same here, I started with Cool Edit.

EDIT: Matt, in your OP you mentioned you tried WaveLab. Other than the registration problems did you find it to be comparable in functionality?


Edited by BlueAttitude (02/14/20 02:15 AM)
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#580782 - 02/14/20 05:24 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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WaveLab appears to have more functions than I could have imagined. I’ll keep playing with it.
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#580783 - 02/14/20 05:25 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5425
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Since you'll be starting from scratch you should strive for what's best and not necessarily someone's favorite. Aim for a program made for the job and that is stable as well as compatible with a DAW.

Still using Adobe Audition 1.5 means nearly any current program will be far advanced from what you're use to.

I recommend Studio One Professional. It has a very powerful Project page designed for stereo editing and mastering. It has high quality plug-ins, tools and very well designed and useful presets. It is a professional, commercial grade product designed to do specifically what you're needing.

I think it will be suitable to you for several other reasons too.

. It will work extremely well in both the DAW and Project page with your X-Touch controller.
. There are templates available making setup of the X-touch quite easy and quick.
. There are commercial grade covers to go onto your X-Touch identifying all the faders, buttons and knobs to match the X-Touch to the DAW/Project commands.
. There is seamless integration between the DAW and the Project Page. For instance, if you're editing stereo file and discover you need to make a minor fader change on an individual instrument, you can make the change on the DAW page and it automatically updates the Project Page stereo file.

I don't think you should concern yourself about the learning curve. There will be a learning curve at some level with any new software you choose. But in your case, with Studio One, you don't have to learn the entire software. You need it specifically for stereo editing. Everything else about the program can be considered a future benefit and can be ignored until the day you either choose it as DAW or accidentally discover a feature and include into your workflow. It's simply a case that you'll have more than you need for the day you need more than you have. wink

There are ton's of tutorials on YouTube and entire channels dedicated to Studio One Software. I have no doubt you will be able to install the software, Install and set up your Audio interface and sound modules, install and set up your X-Touch, install and set up a Keyboard, load and edit your first stereo file in less than a day.

It will also help future proof your studio. Studio One stays current with changes in the hardware sector of the industry and is very stable with most manufacturers products. It has pro grade plug-ins and works seamlessly with most after market VST's. (PG Music's Band in a Box VST included.) Regarding future proofing your studio, I know you've had your X-Touch for several years and may need or consider replacing it or upgrading in the not to distant future. A Major benefit you get with Studio One that no other DAW can match in its price range is the tight integration between the DAW and Presonus's controllers, Faderport 8 or Faderport 16. Presonus's latest version upgrade release has put Faderport integration as the main new upgrade feature and the controllers access and control the DAW VST's both factory and third party.

In your situation, if you don't use it for nothing more than the project page and the additional VST's it includes and the high quality presets, you'll get your money's worth.
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#580784 - 02/14/20 05:36 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 2911
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
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Studio one is an excellent DAW, no question about that!
It's one of the ones I evaluated when I decided it was time to switch from using Audition 3 as my DAW.
It is not however as good (or as easy might be a better way to put it) as Audition 1.5 for editing or punching in audio, and I spent quite a few hours evaluating it and learning what it could do. IMHO of course wink
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#580785 - 02/14/20 05:52 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 12/05/11
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Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Matt are you trying to work on one song file or a group of them?

If I were just trying to exit one song I would just do that in my DAW. I used to use a couple audio editors. Gave them up cause it didn’t seem to help. Cakewalk has some pretty decent audio tools.

If I am trying to master a group of songs I use the project page in studio one.


Master a group? How the heck do you do that?

Bud
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#580786 - 02/14/20 05:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: BlueAttitude]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5425
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Studio one is an excellent DAW, no question about that!
It's one of the ones I evaluated when I decided it was time to switch from using Audition 3 as my DAW.
It is not however as good (or as easy might be a better way to put it) as Audition 1.5 for editing or punching in audio, and I spent quite a few hours evaluating it and learning what it could do. IMHO of course wink


It is an excellent DAW. However, my recommendation to Matt is for it's value as a stereo editor, of which the Project Page is a pro grade version. Audition 1.5 was released in 2004. Any current software will be more feature laden and require some time learning what it can do.

Matt said: "Yes, I also use a DAW, but for many purposes, it's good to have a stereo file editor." Once installed and set up, Matt should be able to learn stereo editing in an hour. Matt continues: "I tend to work in a DAW when recording or assembling multiple tracks. Then I normally work with the exported stereo file for final tweaking in a stereo audio editor. Specifics are different, as each project requires its own approach."

Yes, Studio One has dozens if not hundreds of features beyond Audition 1.5, and yes, the specifics Matt needs for editing differ between projects, I speculate the specifics don't vary a lot over time and different projects. My point is that Matt doesn't need the same editing tools on every project but every project is repetitious to the total tools and techniques Matt uses. There are probably a certain set of commands he uses over and over as needed per project. Initially, Matt will only need to learn the tools and techniques in Studio One that he uses on all his projects in Audition 1.5.
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#580791 - 02/14/20 06:30 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
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silvertones Offline
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The one tool that noone mentions is the multiband compressor. It's difficult but once Mastered.it ends a lot of issues
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#580800 - 02/14/20 07:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 12/05/11
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Janice & Bud Offline
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Originally Posted By: silvertones
The one tool that noone mentions is the multiband compressor. It's difficult but once Mastered.it ends a lot of issues


I use Waves LinMB multi compressor on every project. It will open up a mix like nothing else I’ve used. That!

Bud
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#580803 - 02/14/20 08:03 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/20/00
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jford Offline
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Diamond Cut Audio Restoration Tools (DCArt) (diamondcut.com) for me. Have used it since Win95 days and have helped beta test it several times. It supports VST effects and has a quick-edit mode and a traditional edit mode. Once you learn just a few keyboard shortcuts, it is very easy to navigate. You can load multiple files in a tabbed display and it's easy to copy/paste (with options to paste over, paste insert, etc). Lots of audio filters and effects included, and with VST effects, there is little you cannot do. And like PGMusic, the developers are very responsive on the forum to help you (Craig Meier and Rick Carlson). It also has an audio library feature and saves nicely to MP3 (and other formats).
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#580807 - 02/14/20 09:31 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Let me address a few of these questions and comments, again with my thanks for your interest.

Yes, I do a lot of just plain stereo editing for clients. I do even more for myself to make my composer demos.

John Ford, thanks, I did get Diamond Cut Pro on your recommendation. It's an especially good tool for noise removal. I'll take another look now that you say it handles VSTs to see if that includes my newer ones.

Larry, -1 for annoying hoops in all things Steinberg. But I have Dorico (tried it, still don't like it) so it wasn't too bad the second time around.

Silvertones, I use multiband compressors and I use them from a plugin. My ancient Adobe Audition doesn't recognize my newer plugins, and this is one of my two main reasons for a change.

BlueAttitude, the other main reason I want to change is too many abrupt crashes when I forget to unzoom. If you make the mistake of zooming and previewing a portion of the song (especially in multitrack mode) and you don't stop playback before the end of the selected section, bang, gone. Recovery might or might not bring it back. Does that happen to you? Very annoying.

Bud, perhaps the concept of 'master a group of songs' refers to how I handle mastering to burn a CD. I use the program CD Architect, which allows adjustment of each song so the project is coherent throughout. My favorite technique is to pretend I have an old turntable, where you pick up the needle and set it down anywhere. Does it have coherence in terms of volume and energy wherever you set the needle down, or does one song blast you out where another makes you want to turn up volume? Or 'mastering a group' might mean something entirely different...

About Studio One, which several have mentioned, thanks. I did try that when SONAR went defunct temporarily. I have moved back to Cakewalk by Bandlab. Otherwise, I would have stayed with Mixcraft 9. But I did not evaluate Studio One for its use as a stereo editor. Likewise for the stereo editing features of any other DAW. As I'm an expert in Adobe Audition, I never considered using a DAW for this, instead thinking I would just update my stereo editor.

Apologies for any other major points I did not address. Thank you all.
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#580905 - 02/14/20 07:53 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/04/00
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Larry Kehl Offline
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Matt

Of course you know if you do invest in Wavelab it will go on sale a week later, so let me know when you buy it so I can be on the lookout for a deal grin

Good Luck
Larry
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#580909 - 02/14/20 08:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Could we talk about audio editors? [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 19641
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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So true! Larry, I strive to help!

I like what I’ve seen so far. There is no competitive product cross grade, and I no longer qualify for educational pricing, but the Elements ‘lite’ version is a very reasonable $100.
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But, what if you're unable to round up your crew? That's where Band-in-a-Box® comes in!

There are more than 1,100 Guitar RealTracks available in Sets 1-352 by over 50 RealTracks Artists! Jam along with any of them when you create your own song using Guitar RealTracks, or play one of the demo songs for any Guitar you choose in the RealTracks picker dialog - simply choose your Guitar and click on the [Song Demo...] button within that window.

OR take it even farther when you head to the Soloist within Band-in-a-Box® and choose "Trade" when generating a Guitar Soloist track - choose between 2, 4, or 8 bars!

Learn more about the Trade option within Band-in-a-Box in Chapter 9 | "The Soloist" of our Online Manual.

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