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#572015 - 12/22/19 01:37 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5922
Loc: Pawling New York
Rob Helms Offline
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Awesome dialog folks. It is interesting to hear the different views. Of course none of us know where things will go, but if we hold open conversations where nobody’s views are wrong but just ideas at the least PGM know what users think. I try to remember that those who post here regularly are a small cross section of users.

A couple responses to others, Charlie I still have a older VSL interface 1818 it still works perfectly in S1 4.6, but I understand what you mean by things slowly becoming obsolete. Secondly rustyspoon, as far as the plugin not being stable. I find it is very stable, yes there are a few features not working properly like the RCs from the RDs, however it works in Reaper but not Studio one. For me in studio one other than that it works pretty good. What does it need? Complete integration of BiaB intro/endings, hold and shots, a few other updates, and such then give us solo/mute buttons as pipeline diagrams. It would be a pretty cool plugin.

Maybe a BiaB/RB split is not possible, maybe it is. I don’t know the dynamics of that. That is one reason I mentioned ramping up PT development. Here’s one of the first programs build after BiaB. Sure it is dated to some degree. Still it has good bones. Midi, audio, BiaB files can be opened and it is not tethered totally to BiaB. The midi could use a bit of modern features, the audio editing window could use some updating, the plugins work but could use some updating. The mixer view and the tracks view are the ones needing a ton of work.

Tracks view: Toss out the 48 track limit. Delete the 48 tracks showing. Allow the user to add tracks as needed like all other DAWs. Three types midi, mono and stereo audio.

Mixer view: Chuck the 8 aux busses, and FX busses . Clean it all out. Nothing showing but the main output buss, redesigned with pre and post fader output. Allow individual Channels to appear when added by user from either of the two views, give them both FX inserts or sends to busses. Allow stereo or mono busses to be added per user need. Allow busses have inserted FX, or sends to other busses or outboard hardware

Modernize the GUI, and update the automation to work like other DAWs. Now you can record fader movement, change that to a more visual system like node based products. Develop plugin automation in the same vein. If you own BiaB and the new redesigned PT, then PT could access the RT/RD folders, or those that do not want to buy BiaB, could purchase PT packages that include RT/RDs. Allowing the new plugin version (3.0) that is built in and used a one click to open/close, to access these files.

Anyway it happens it should be fun to watch and use. Let’s never stop imagining what can be both with BiaB and with all things we enjoy in life.


Okay to dramatic, a little over the top? Hey I enjoyed writing it anyway. Hope your all having a great Sunday afternoon.


Edited by Rob Helms (12/22/19 01:39 PM)
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#572019 - 12/22/19 02:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5922
Loc: Pawling New York
Rob Helms Offline
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Pepe, I do understand what is at stake in development. I also understand that it take time. I also know what the others do and don’t do well I have been doing this for better than 20 years. I have spent quality time with several DAWs, PTPA, Cakewalk MC versions 1,2,3,5, Sonar X1, Multitrackstudios, Reaper, Studio one from version 2 through 4.6. I also spent two solid years using RB as my full time DAW. Yes I agree it lacks a few modern features, but unlike someone who earlier said they spend 15 minutes with one version, and 5 with another I used the tar out of it. It is different, and as said some things are either missing or underdeveloped. There is a lot more under the hood than given credit for. I did over 100 projects in RB. As for 64 bit, that does not make a DAW light years “better” than a 32 bit DAW. 64 bit does not make anything sound better. It just allow the system to run faster on a 64 bit OS.

I might be a dreamer, and a romantic as you say. But I will never change. I believe that with dreaming comes ideas, and ideas breed excellence. PG music at one point dreamed up a fantastic product that gives many people the opportunity to create their dreams, be they hobbies, professions, or whatever. With more dreams, and hard work more dreams can come to fruition. Let the dreamers dream, and the creators create.
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#572029 - 12/22/19 03:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 1228
Loc: Central Ohio
edshaw Offline
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Loc: Central Ohio
Should be enough challenges in the core competency, composition, to keep PGM busy for the foreseeable future. Haven't seen much in the way of hip hop or rap in the user forum. Listening to the radio, disco changed but never really died, in fact, seems stronger than ever. Composers today are weaving ever more complex rhythmic structures and patterns, beats, and not just with the skins -- any sonic is fair game for today's rhythm kings. That's just one of the six basic components : strings, guitars, bass, piano, drums, melody. I understand, PMG does not want to risk abandoning their base -- folk, rock, country, blues, other 12 bar 1-4-5 forms, a base for which BiaB has been a dream come true.
What has the digital DAW brought to the table? Well, first off, synchronicity. Then, split, copy, and paste. Add search, precision, effects.
If I could ask for anything on BiaB, it would be an enhanced digital readout.


Edited by edshaw (12/22/19 03:20 PM)
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#572033 - 12/22/19 03:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5922
Loc: Pawling New York
Rob Helms Offline
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cool ideas Ed. I don't see BiaB chasing this path, but who knows. especially if more folks request it. With real drums/tracks anything is possible even with out editing the audio.

To me this is more suited to a true DAW. Where audio editing is available in many forms and tracks.

I guess DAW is a subjective phrase it is simply a Digital Audio Work Station. by the words Biab qualifies, however around here most folks tend to think of a DAW as a typical recording studio software.
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#572038 - 12/22/19 03:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 424
Loc: Jonesboro Arkansas
Brian Hughes Offline
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Posts: 424
Loc: Jonesboro Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Thanks, everyone. When we have a DAW that, like MuseScore, reads BIAB native files and actually reads the chords, then we'll have something.

But how about Music XML? If you Save Special a BIAB song as Music XML, will Studio One read those chords directly (not just 'interpret')? Will any other DAW you know do that? My question is prompted by learning Studio One has a separate chords track, which I would find valuable enough to learn another DAW for IF it reads the BIAB chords directly. Thanks.


Matt as far as I know Studio One cannot directly do this. How ever I am able to import the BIAB XML into Presonus Notion and send it directly to Studio One and have Studio One's chord track analyze it. Here is a picture of the BIAB song file called ADESTE which I saved as a XML file and imported into Notion then sent to Studio One. Notion & Studio One work together in case you are not aware of that.


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#572041 - 12/22/19 03:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5922
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Rob Helms Offline
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That is cool info Brian, thanks.
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#572053 - 12/22/19 04:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13067
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Ok,
...User Videotrack showed an idea of auto-hiding mixer some time ago. So far, I was not able to see or come up with a better idea. Sorry, I can not find the post...



I think this is the post?
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#572058 - 12/22/19 05:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 3104
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Not sure who deleted my post on this thread but I'm gonna repeat myself (and prolly others as well!)

Realband development should be halted immediately and it should only be supported as a legacy product. All resources should be put toward the flagship products, BIAB and RealTracks! Spend time fixing bugs in BIAB and enhancing it with features like true inline bar-by-bar regeneration, more than 4 beats per measure, extending the 255 bar limit, allowing more tracks, etc.

Realband has just a single feature that is better than other DAWs and that is the ability to use RealTracks. Without that there would be absolutely no reason to use it. It was a nice effort by PGM but there are FAR BETTER DAWs available cheap or even free! I would bet money they don't have a single Realband user who chose it as their DAW separate from buying BIAB.

Realband could never stand alone as a product so don't continue to invest limited valuable resources in reinventing a wheel that already exists far beyond what you can create! Improve BIAB instead!

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#572065 - 12/22/19 05:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5922
Loc: Pawling New York
Rob Helms Offline
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Thanks JJJ for weighing in. Every opinion is valid. I agree with you in part. BiaB should fix the old nagging issues. 255, 4 beats etc. Bar by bar is a cool idea.
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#572078 - 12/22/19 07:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2787
Rustyspoon# Offline
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JJJ,
I agree that resources have to go to places needed most and with most of other points you made. Except, I would prefer "selected bar freeze and re-generate un-frozen" approach instead of bar by bar. I believe there is more control over the arrangement this way.

VideoTrack,
your link to post says:
Access denied...

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#572081 - 12/22/19 07:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13067
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
VideoTrack,
your link to post says:
Access denied...

Unusual, it is a link to a PG Music Forum page.

Try this:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=567118&Searchpage=1&Main=80045&Words=VSTAnimation_5.gif&Search=true#Post567118
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#572083 - 12/22/19 07:21 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2787
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Videotrack:
still: Access denied.
Return to the previous page.

Maybe they are doing something with server, which is not uncommon on weekends.

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#572088 - 12/22/19 08:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13067
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Online   content
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Registered: 06/05/12
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Videotrack:
still: Access denied.
Return to the previous page.

Maybe they are doing something with server, which is not uncommon on weekends.

Not sure, it's working for me.
Are you logged in when trying? - (only a guess)
Anyone else have issues?
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#572091 - 12/22/19 08:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21993
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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It works here.
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#572093 - 12/22/19 09:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 02/05/15
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Pipeline Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Kojack, I haven’t tried Presonus Studio One in years. Does it pick up the chords from BIAB?


If you don't use the Plugin just use it to transfer the chords from your SGU into the DAW.
Studio One Chords from Biab Plugin

Biab Plugin Chords to Reaper

Until I get around to doing the Cubase just generate up a held chord midi track, drag into Cubase and Cubase will get the chords.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pup364svAo
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#572094 - 12/22/19 09:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 6302
Pipeline Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Videotrack:
still: Access denied.
Return to the previous page.

Maybe they are doing something with server, which is not uncommon on weekends.


If you right right click the little yellow icon in front of the post tittle copy link location.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=567118#Post567118
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#572098 - 12/22/19 10:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 3104
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Posts: 3104
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Videotrack:
still: Access denied.
Return to the previous page.

Maybe they are doing something with server, which is not uncommon on weekends.

Not sure, it's working for me.
Are you logged in when trying? - (only a guess)
Anyone else have issues?

Doesn't work for me either.

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#572101 - 12/22/19 11:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13067
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Online   content
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13067
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Doesn't work for me either.

Hmmm, have you guys been good for Santa? Stuff like this happens, you know grin
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#572103 - 12/22/19 11:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 6302
Pipeline Offline
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Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 6302
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Ok,
...User Videotrack showed an idea of auto-hiding mixer some time ago. So far, I was not able to see or come up with a better idea. Sorry, I can not find the post...


https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=567118#Post567118
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Very easy to achieve with a little bit of code like this. Introduce and retract at will:




https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=362260#Post362260

Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
"it would be great if you can redesign the GUI. In this state it looks old-fashionned, more like a random collection of functions and is therefore not very productive.

Here's where we are really working from the same page. I've put a big effort into promoting ideas for changes that the UI desperately needs.



I won't pretend. It reeks of legacy DOS and still has some clumsy non-intuitive menus. From the sample concept I prepared, barely a word has been sent in reply from PGM Staff.

There's a time-warp thing happening here, and it's holding the product back.

This is not just my view. I can demonstrate other real-world statements that have been mentioned where sales are jeopardized because new and potential users are simply put off by the appearance.

Sometimes you have to be direct, because being blunt and direct is the best way to be. The product is great, and is being improved all of the time. The single feature that desperately needs attention is the UI.

Fresh new inspiration is seriously needed.

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#572105 - 12/23/19 01:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My thoughts regarding the future [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2787
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Posts: 2787
Yeah, here it is! Thank you pipeline!
(Link still does not want to work for me)


Devs of PG, please look at this! Maybe some buttons & elements can have more modern appeal and position, but the concept Videotrack came up with is brilliant! This was posted 4+ years back.

If you think you can do better, prove it!

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NOTE: Xtra Styles PAKs require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition version 2020 or 2021. (Xtra Styles PAK 11 requires the 2021 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition.) Xtra Styles PAKs won't work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Learn more & listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 11.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 users should install the latest patch update, which includes support for Xtra Styles PAK 11.

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