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#582672 - 02/27/20 01:43 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers.
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
James Francisco Offline
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Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
Hi Everyone!

A month or so ago after one of MS's Windows 10 updates, I noticed that my MIDI controller keyboard wouldn't work anymore. When I plugged it into the computer, all the normal lights and setting numbers came up, but when trying to play a song using the keyboard in Reaper or BB with a VSTi synth voice, it didn't show any MIDI communication at all. Usually with Reaper, you can see an orange line next to the level meter to show you it's getting the MIDI note on, note off. But not now.

I looked online and some people said to get the Korg MIDI setup utility and it would allow you to see how many MIDI devices were available. I did so and it showed a MIDI device on 1 and 10 but nothing in between... apparently Win 10 won't let you go over 10, but I don't really have 10... just 2 that I can see anyway. Any ideas on how to get Windows 10 Pro to work correctly?

BTW, I have 2 other computers running Windows 10, and they both work fine. But my BIAB and Reaper is on the one giving me troubles.

My computer is a 8 core, 16 GB, 200 GB SSD, 1 TB hard drive. Got this computer especially for BIAB 2019 when I was having problems with it. It still works great for everything EXCEPT MIDI... and it doesn't matter whether it's a USB MIDI connection or the MIDI ports on my audio interface. It just plain don't speak MIDI no mo.

Any ideas greatly appreciated! Sorry for the long post.

Jim
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BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.

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#582681 - 02/27/20 03:00 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 810
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 810
Loc: UK
just a thought - does you controlller need any special driver? i just plugged mine in and windows recognised it

that said if you install midi-ox on another pc you can test the keyboard output. its a small freeware program

when you say other pcs work fine does that mean you've already tested the keyboard on them or just that the sound woks ok?

here's a demo of midi ox and also how to check your keyboard is recognised ( just lighting up simply shows its getting power)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAF-5Soc-ds

do you get a sound when you strike a key on the BIAB piano? that would show that midi is working. I assume you've looked at all the driver settings in BIAB but I don't know Reaper. your keyboard should show up as midi input and the output is whatever synth you are using on the pc (forgive me if all of this is stuff you've done already)

do you get sound from other programs? windows updates have been known to switch off the sound settings so check your default device in the control panel

the fact that both Reaper and BIAB have stopped working suggests its keyboard related to me and the midi ox test on another pc would eliminate that possibility - i'm not sure of the korg utility.

i presume you've checked all the usual things - keyboard volume and channels send etc.

these are just guesses but there are some real experts here and if you post the make and model of your controller someone will be able to help i'm sure

as a final thought the last windows 10 update stopped my soundcard working - if you post the make and model of your controller someone should be able to confirm it works with the latest update. strange things happen with windows..........





Edited by Bob Calver (02/27/20 03:08 PM)

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#582684 - 02/27/20 03:57 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
James Francisco Offline
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Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
Thanks for the response, Bob...

I guess I left a few things out of my post. Sorry.

My keyboard is a M-Audio Oxygen 25. Generally, I don't need to do anything when I plug it in. It works fine with my other computers on Reaper and other MIDI apps, although I don't have BIAB on any other machine. So it's not just Reaper and BIAB. All of my other MIDI programs/apps/whatever produce sound or show a response when I hit a key.

However...

When I use Reaper or BIAB or any other MIDI program on THIS computer, it shows "Oxygen 25" as the MIDI keyboard, but when pressing a note, no MIDI communication is happening. (I do have MIDI-OX on one other machine... I'll put that on this one to see what it can tell me... good idea!)

On VSTi instruments that have a virtual keyboard, I can play them by clicking on a key. Works fine. Just can't do it with my keyboard.

I also tried using a separate keyboard with a MIDI to USB adapter on it. No dice. Then I went from that keyboard using standard MIDI In, Out, Thru... still nothing. The problem is definitely in this computer, since all of these things work on other computers.

The real big mystery is WHY. Why did a Windows update mess up THIS computer and not the other ones, when they also got that same update?

Nothing that I have checked, except the "only 10 MIDI slots" (from the aforementioned Korg utility) has helped. But there has to be a way to change that setting, or disable/enable the devices. Maybe in the registry, but I'm no programmer, so I don't want to change something important and crash my computer.

Anywhoo... that's where I'm at. Win 10 apparently only allows 10 MIDI devices, but in my computer there is a device at #1 and #10, and Winderz is too dumb to know there are other slots open. BTW, this is my interpretation from what I've found online and in using that little Korg install/uninstall utility. So, some of my conclusions may be faulty. wink

Thanks,

Jim
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BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.

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#582686 - 02/27/20 04:50 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 13897
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 13897
Loc: Hamlin NY
Jim, is the Oxygen 25 highlighted in your input window? If it is not then it is not going to work.

Did you try this, power down your computer. Unplug your Oxygen. Boot your computer then plug in the Oxygen. Did it work?

I have had a Win 10 update delete a driver before. You might want to DL the latest Oxygen 25 win 10 driver:

https://m-audio.com/support/drivers

I hope this helps and good luck.


Edited by MarioD (02/27/20 04:51 PM)
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#582691 - 02/27/20 05:17 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
James Francisco Offline
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Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
Hi MarioD!

Yes, I've done that many times. But it was a good idea, anyway. Thank you!

Bob Calver mentioned using MIDI OX, so I downloaded that. With MIDI OX, I could see the midi sysex on the screen, and could even play a piano (mswavetable?). But when in a normal music program that utilizes VSTi synths for sound, it wouldn't communicate.

But... I think I may be on to a possible answer (how's that for ambiguous!). This computer has NVidia sound capability, as well as video. Nvidia doesn't play nice with a lot of devices, so...

Tomorrow, I'm going to try to go into my computer's CMOS setup and see if there is a way to limit Nvidia's usage of those MIDI/USB slots/ports/whatever they are. If I can, maybe I can get it to assign my keyboard to a different number. Not sure if it will work, but it gives me a place to look, anyway.

Thanks, MarioD!

Jim
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#582752 - 02/28/20 06:52 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 810
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 810
Loc: UK
in BIAB if you just use a bog standard synth like Microsoft wavetable do you get a sound rather than using the vsti instruments?

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#582753 - 02/28/20 06:52 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
James Francisco Offline
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Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
Well folks, no go.

My CMOS settings didn't have any way to rearrange or limit the number of MIDI inputs to Windows. I don't know if any of that would have done anything anyway, but it was a direction to look.

Not sure why Windows is such a pain for audio/MIDI, but it is. I guess I understand why so many have gone to Apple... at least for recording software. Grrrr!

Anyone familiar with registry editing? Should I maybe try that angle?

Special thanks to Bob Calver and MarioD for their help. I appreciate it, guys! Even though we haven't figured it out yet. When we do, maybe it will help someone else. Hope so, anyway!

Jim
_________________________
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.

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#582754 - 02/28/20 06:55 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
James Francisco Offline
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Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
in BIAB if you just use a bog standard synth like Microsoft wavetable do you get a sound rather than using the vsti instruments?



Bob, I haven't tried that, but it's a great idea. I'll do that now and see what happens!

Thanks,
Jim
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BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.

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#582760 - 02/28/20 07:10 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
James Francisco Offline
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Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
Bob,

I am able to use the MIDI Monitor in BIAB to both see the note on/off info as well as produce a sound w/ MSwavetable. I'm going to try something similar in Reaper to see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion!

Jim

[EDIT] Reaper won't allow mswavetable, at least on my machine. Still inop. Checked regedit and couldn't find anything that directly pointed to MIDI. About to give up on it. Been having to do Reaper MIDI stuff on another computer. But that's a big pain, especially since that computer is s l o w.


Edited by James Francisco (02/28/20 07:51 AM)
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#582765 - 02/28/20 07:46 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 949
Loc: Cornwall UK
Mike Head Online   content
Expert

Registered: 12/10/15
Posts: 949
Loc: Cornwall UK
HI James

Ok try this .
The M oxegen
Is a controller keyboard and therefore has no voices of its own
So you will need to play it through a vsti or dxi internally or send it out to an external midi module.

Lets go the easy way for now, in your midi audio settings in BIAB select your keyboard as midi input.
Use coyote wav table as your dxi synth
And tick the box use VST/DXI
Un tick Route midi thru to midi driver

The default midi piano should play when you press the keys.
You can chose any midi voice as your through voice.

If you make a recording at this stage the recording will go on the Melody track/ channel, (you can use soloist track) in the mixer, and play back using what ever midi voice is set for the melody / soloist track.
So if you want it to sound the same as your through voice then they need to be set to the same voice.
This should serve as a test.
Mike


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Edited by Mike Head (02/28/20 07:48 AM)
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#582768 - 02/28/20 08:06 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: Mike Head]
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
James Francisco Offline
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Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
Thanks, Mike, that's a good workaround for BIAB. Like you said, I can change the instrument to anything I like later. Mainly I just like to have a melody track recorded in BIAB with MIDI so that I can print a lead sheet out later. Also, then I can drag/drop the .mid file to Reaper and use a totally different voice there.

I appreciate the good idea, Mike!

Thank you! Now all I have to do is figure out why MIDI won't work in Reaper. :P

Jim
_________________________
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.

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#583166 - 03/01/20 12:52 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
James Francisco Offline
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Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Northern Michigan
Just a little update for anyone that uses Reaper with BIAB and also uses a MIDI keyboard...

I had just upgraded from 5.9xx to version 6 of Reaper and didn't realize that some things got moved around a little. Couldn't find an answer in the user's manual either, but by accident I right-clicked on the record button for a track and there was the missing pieces... where it gives you the opportunity to select your MIDI input device, etc. !!! I'm kind of embarrassed about that, but don't do a lot of MIDI work usually in Reaper.

The thing that I'm struggling with now is a lag of about 10 ms or so on the keyboard input only. For example, when I play a piano note, the note doesn't sound when I first hit the key, but lags enough that I hear it about the time my finger comes up off the key. I'm just guessing that it's about 10 ms. It's enough to make it hard to play along with a recorded track or BIAB playback. Same happens when I use MIDI OX. But interestingly enough, it doesn't happen if I use Contabile... which is a self-contained VST manager. Somehow I think I've got a MIDI loop or something causing a delay but can't find it. It's not related to my USB Audio Interface. I tried different buffer settings to change the latency but that had no affect on this issue. Anyway, that's where it stands now. Sorry if this part should have been a separate thread.

Jim
_________________________
BIAB 2020 with Reaper 6, on an AMD 8 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 240 GB SSD and 1 TB HD. Retired and trying to make some serious music, before Arthur Ritis spoils the fun.

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#583174 - 03/01/20 02:19 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19894
Loc: Mi., USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19894
Loc: Mi., USA
Quote:
.. when I play a piano note, the note doesn't sound when I first hit the key, but lags ..

What interface and what Drivers?
Drivers are the usual case for lag, but determining the right drivers requires knowing which interface you are using.
Which synth is actually generating the sound is also good to know.
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#583181 - 03/01/20 03:54 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: My Win 10 Pro computer will not recognize my MIDI keyboard any longer: works on other computers. [Re: James Francisco]
Registered: 12/03/18
Posts: 63
Loc: Flagstaff, AZ
TheMaartian Offline
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Registered: 12/03/18
Posts: 63
Loc: Flagstaff, AZ
Another possibility for the latency is a mismatch between the Windows audio settings and an audio app like BiaB or RB (sample rate). If one is set to 44.1 and the other is set to 48, you'll get really noticeable lag.

This is why I have Windows audio mapped to my motherboard Realtek Audio i/f and my music apps mapped to my PreSonus AudioBox i/f.
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