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#453974 - 01/27/18 02:00 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible!
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Being a huge Jarrett and Kenny Wheeler fan I transcribed some melodies and chords and put them in band in a box. Searching for the right style has been frustrating. So last year I tried to make up my own styles, again a very frustrating experience with all of the biab quirks an’all. But, I hung in there and discovered a thing or two in the end. Finally I’ve gotten it more or less down.

The keys are in the contrast between a looser drum feel and a tighter (not walking) bass, I think. Read: Jack Dejohnette and Dave Holland!

Anyone intrested in discussing the process of making those styles, or exchanging tips, join in.

Two tips to start with:
Converting internet available midi files to styles doesn’t seem to work
chromatic approach notes, over the bar lines or anticipations don’t work. The fact that when you really play, you think horizontally, disregarding existing changes, adding substitute changes, well... the computer doesn’t think that way. So.

Make your own midi files and QUANTIZE them
Make your own, make em simple, not too complex cause it might sound good playing it, but as a style in a song? “Quantizing” sounds like making the timing sterile, but it’s necessary. You can’t input tiny subtleties well: slight latencies in the software or your hardware. Otherwise, a quantized beat is not necessarily lifeless. I discovered it transcribing a Jarrett solo and playing the notation back. Without 16th note triplets or anything, it still sounded killer!
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#456178 - 02/07/18 06:11 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 02/07/18
Posts: 4
Dan Gipson Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/18
Posts: 4
So, is this applicable to creating midi styles only? First thing I thought as I browsed through the styles was how limited they were, unless I was attached to jazz primarily, and a few other styles. While I have, much to my surprise, used some of those jazz styles, I still wish/wonder if the users could create their own, swappable, or even purchasable styles. Real, or midi. Sounds like you've found your way through to midi. Way to go!

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#456247 - 02/07/18 10:23 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dan Gipson]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6256
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6256
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
+++ Norton Music +++ offers many third party midi styles.

While listening to the sample songs remember the site is using the base level midi sound patches built-into Windows. Midi can sound only as good as the midi patches in use.

++++ Look HERE ++++ under the Advanced heading at the bottom for two video tutorials on creating styles.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (725) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 2004, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#456366 - 02/07/18 11:31 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
He Dan,

Jim is right when he says the patches or plugins matter a great deal.

But more importantly, I think, since the more sophisticated midi supertracks, the stylemaker has become more sophisticated too. More velocity-sensitive and it allows better triplet “management”

Nevertheless, Jim is right when it comes to choosing the right plugins. And it takes some searching since the GM standard is rare among the “better” vst’s. For the moment I primarily use Native instruments’ Vintage drums or 50’s drums and I only use brushes: you have to adjust the mapping and search for the right sound. And for bass I use Fluffy’s simple bass or one of the freebies (Chad’s double bass or xperimenta’s pizzicato bass, these are great, but take some tweaking). Sadly GM ready vsts like roland’s or non gm ready softs like sampletank 3 have very poor sounding double bass or brushes.

But the above setup works great.

By the way, exchanging these styles is easy. But, When they show up in style picker, the info is not there, you should make a Ls-file which I won’t bother myself with. So, yeah, you just copy the style to mail or forum and the receiver should paste it in the bb-directory. And it can be used.

I have made some more modern swing and bop styles, you know: less boring, every once in a while the drums accent the beat or the afterbeat... and bass is more dynamic. Walking bass can be very boring if everything has more or less the same velocity.

Just one quirk that I can’t seem to figurre out: there is an “intro” part to styles, but I can’t edit it in stylemaker, since it doesn’t show up.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#493113 - 09/27/18 12:36 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 09/27/18
Posts: 1
cham Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/27/18
Posts: 1
This is an interesting topic. I would very much like if there were more such styles.

Not a keyboard player myself I cannot easy construct them.

I would like there to be vibes of Bobo Stenson Trio, Tord Gustavsen, Marcin Wasilewski Trio, Alboran trio, Tomasz Stanko quartet, Avishai Cohen, John Abercrombie, Anouar Brahem...

Like above I believe they cannot be to complex or to specific just capture different vibes not just certain songs. Preferably with a lot of choices. Midi I think.

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#587481 - 03/24/20 10:30 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
More than two years on and countless hours of “programming”, correcting and tweaking, I just think I’m onto something here.
It can be done.
Check my website and listen to some of the examples.
Hope you like it.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#604116 - 06/28/20 03:00 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
For lovers of modern jazz, I have mgu files included in the blog.
The mgu files are free and feature modern jazz tunes (the styles are not included, but you don’t have to have the Jazzstylezz styles to enjoy the songs)

Some melodies are elaborate, some are not perfect, but certainly usable. They are not meant to substitute realbooks, fake books or the great Norton fakedisks, but offer you a connection to some of todays’ modern jazz.

Tempo de Amor, Herbie Hancock and Ceu
What’s New (in 5/4)
Dolphin Dance, Herbie Hancock
3/4 in the afternoon, Kenny Wheeler
From Gagarin’s Point of View, Esbjorn Svensson, EST
Broken Wing, Richie Beirach as played by Chet Baker
FeFe Naa Efe, Laurent De Wilde’s arrangement of the Fela Kuti song
It’s Easy to Remember, Scofield and Corea-style improvisation
Lover Man
Mission: to be where I am, Jan Garbarek
Tagreta, Arild Andersen, as played by Bill Frisell
Bernie’s tune
Hermitage, Pat Metheny


You’ll find them here
https://www.jazzstylezz.com/blog
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#604236 - 06/28/20 03:35 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7463
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 7463
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
I'm on your Soundcloud page and been going through the songs. You have created a very cool laid back style. I think Caravan is a masterpiece, I've never heard it done like that before. I do it in an uptempo funky hip hop sort of thing which is fun to play but I really dig what you did with it. If and when I ever get to do a another restaurant gig I'm going to try it like you did. Very nice.

I also like taking standards that every band in the world burn on and doing them very slow if I'm doing a solo piano gig or maybe a duo. One tune that is good for that is Night in Tunisia. Have you ever tried that in this slow, open style? If not give that a shot I would like to hear what you do with it.

I like what you're doing and putting Mr PC in seven was very cool too.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#604277 - 06/28/20 10:39 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Thx a lot!
I really dig what some of the modern musicians do, though it should remain melodic.
I’ll put up more mgu files in the weeks to come,
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#606285 - 07/13/20 12:17 PM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Sometime ago, the Bob Berg/Chick Corea changes...

Mgu-file available on my blog.

_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#606445 - 07/14/20 11:46 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20297
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20297
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Nice, I’ll check it out. I transcribed this many years ago and perform it often. Great arrangement.
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#607309 - 07/21/20 04:00 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Caravan, this time

The style is modal and the drums are happening. That’s all possible in biab midi styles.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#607763 - 07/24/20 06:28 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 198
Loc: Europe
Celeste, as played by the wonderful Kenny Wheeler on the Album Old Friends, New Friends, written by Ralph Towner.

You can download an MGU file of every tune on my blog. Have fun. Stay safe.

_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#608222 - 07/27/20 06:23 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11176
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11176
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Sorry I missed this earlier.

Oh wow, how really really nice. Wish it could go on....
_________________________
BIAB&RB2020(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#608223 - 07/27/20 06:24 AM [UserTracks (and other add-ons)] Re: ECM jazz midi styles. It is possible! [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11176
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 11176
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I don't care much about the loud shirt. The music speaks volumes grin
_________________________
BIAB&RB2020(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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