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#587959 - 03/26/20 10:30 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Putting Together Real Band Tracks (regeneration)
Registered: 08/04/10
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HearToLearn Offline
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Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1948
Loc: Midwest
When it comes to something like a guitar solo, are you regenerating using the program itself, or do you export multiple takes of the entire track and do some comping from there?

My friend's friend was wondering. wink
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#587967 - 03/26/20 11:03 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Putting Together Real Band Tracks (regeneration) [Re: HearToLearn]
Registered: 08/10/12
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floyd jane Offline
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I'm sure you will get many different answers to this...
Here is mine:

For a solo track (especially guitars), I typically will generate 3, 4 or 5 right in a row once I have the RT selected. The program seems to work well that way - generating fairly different things if you do it right away (or it's the next thing you do).

I import those (all of them) into my DAW and check each one in the region where my solo is.
About half the time one of those comes pretty close to being what I want.
Most of the rest of the time, one of them gets most of it and comping in one of the others where it "misses" does the trick.
Sometimes, I have to poke around all of the tracks to find just the right phrase to comp into that spot that "missed".
Occasionally, nothing in that region works, so I have to find the right stuff in another area of the lead track (I generate an entire track - the full length of the song).
I will slide the whole track back - to the spot where the solo is to be and audition it. If it doesn't work, slide it a measure or two and try again.
It is REALLY important that you do this with "snap to grid" set or it will never sound right. A guitar solo RT that is slightly off timing ruins it.
In auditioning by the "slide method" you might find a whole section that works.
Or... find a phrase that works for the first measure (or 2) and make a cut there (in the rest of the full track) and start sliding that to find the next phrase. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat...

In producing over 200 songs, there has only ever been one or two times that I could not find or create what I think is a good sounding (believable) guitar solo...


Edited by floyd jane (03/26/20 11:05 AM)

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#587982 - 03/26/20 12:14 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Putting Together Real Band Tracks (regeneration) [Re: HearToLearn]
Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1948
Loc: Midwest
HearToLearn Offline
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Registered: 08/04/10
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Loc: Midwest
Great to know. I have been comping them for a while, but need to generate a few more tracks I think.

One specific issue I was having was with a hold. Every time the solo instrument (out of 7 multi's) it did the same thing. So, I tried 7 more, and the same thing. That must be the only default for the hold.

I going to get rid of the hold just for multi-gens of the guitar part to see what I can can get and trim down that way.

Thanks again for the insights!

BTW, on more than occasion I have been fooled by your guitar solos. You do an amazing job of stitching things that make sense together!


Edited by HearToLearn (03/26/20 12:15 PM)
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#587984 - 03/26/20 12:26 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Putting Together Real Band Tracks (regeneration) [Re: HearToLearn]
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floyd jane Offline
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Yeah, a hold will do the same thing every time.
I usually take all the holds out to create solos (and save that as a separate SGU).

Here is a "trick"... or "something to try"...

When a solo is too busy and you want something that holds notes a little longer...

...look for a similar sounding solo that is HALF the tempo of your song.
When you load that RealTrack, select "Half-Time" - so that is plays at its original tempo and not twice what it should.
You will get a much smoother, more musical solo guy.
And you might find some good long notes to use where you need them...

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#588033 - 03/26/20 02:51 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Putting Together Real Band Tracks (regeneration) [Re: HearToLearn]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 5531
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Another "something to try"...

In the StylePicker/RealTrack Picker filter a search for your Soloist Artist...

On a recent project I did this for PG Music session musician Dwight Sills.

There were 8 different RealTracks of him playing the same guitar but each RT was a different feel, genre, tempo or such. Some were Rhythms and some were soloists. But each, the artist was playing the same instrument. From the StylePicker artist search, these RealTracks were used in 76 different Styles that were comprised of dozens of different genres. PG Music staff found these RealTracks to be useful and usable over a wide variety of music... Could I? Yes, it worked for my project.

Using the Artist search yielded a larger search results for my project. Even though a particular RealTrack may be swing and your project may be an Even style, there is likely usable audio contained in a swing style when playing over your specific chord progression. In his video, 'Birth of a Song". Floyd found this to be true with a swing bass in his even feel project.

The same is true for RealTracks with a wide variance of tempos. The stretching algorithm many times causes audio artifacts that are not usable. But not usually to the whole track. If 70% of the audio is unusable, 30% can be usable and will add to the available audio to be used in your project.

I found usable fills and riffs in the Rhythm tracks.

The bottom line, a lot of additional material can be gathered for comping, cut and paste, riffs and solo enhancements with this process.

May work for your project too.


Attachments
RealTracks Capture.JPG

RealStyles Capture.JPG




Edited by Charlie Fogle (03/26/20 02:54 PM)
Edit Reason: Added Screen Shots
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#588471 - 03/29/20 08:45 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Putting Together Real Band Tracks (regeneration) [Re: HearToLearn]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6865
Guitarhacker Offline
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I have used the comping method. Generate 5 or so tracks from the same RT and stack them in the DAW. Then I used volume envelopes to play the parts of each track that I wanted. I used this on THE BEST CHRISTMAS song on my music page.

I started with one track.... had a squanky part in it so I generated a second..... and ended up repeating that 5 times to get the solo you hear in the song. I really haven't used this technique much since then. At least not with 5 tracks. I think I have a few songs with 2 tracks and those are piano tracks IIRC.

For most guitar solos that I record, (live playing) they are either one take, one shot recordings or in other cases, there's some punching going on.


Edited by Guitarhacker (03/29/20 08:46 AM)
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#588645 - 03/30/20 06:18 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: Putting Together Real Band Tracks (regeneration) [Re: HearToLearn]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 8598
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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I often use a SGU that only contains the chords for the solo. I add a half measure before the solo to try and get a few good pickup notes into the solo. After generating three or four that sound acceptable I’ll move them to Logic Pro X for comping if necessary and ultimately mixing.

And I sometimes use Logic’s pitch editor to change the final solo note that segues into the vocal or another instrument if it’s a split solo. And being nothing but an old average bass player I’ll consult with a soloist friend for an opinion on the solo and in particular the note that resolves the solo.

FWIW

Bud

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Fixed: The time signature button on the main toolbar did not do anything.
Fixed: A maximum of 1990 MIDI events are loaded from a song file into the Melody or Soloist track.
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