You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#445722 - 12/17/17 03:16 PM [My Favorite Things] Natural arrangement feature
Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
bluage Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
Good afternoon, folks...

I just experimented with the new "natural arrangements" feature in Band-in-a-Box 2018. It seemed to unleash an even more exciting electric guitar solo in the song I'm working on using the Guitar, Resophonic, Rhythm Blues Delta Sw 065 style.

Has anyone else noticed this very welcome improvement in chord interpretation/performance rendering while using the natural arrangement option in your song?

Thrilled,

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#445730 - 12/17/17 04:38 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20699
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20699
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Absolutely. This is an excellent feature. You haven’t read about it because it was new for last year’s release, 2017 BIAB.
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#445757 - 12/17/17 11:23 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
bluage Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
Hi, Mr. Finley...

Yes, I passed on the 2017 version because I thought I had all I needed from Band-in-a-Box -- WRONG laugh !!! Won't do that again!

Anyway, the effect the "natural arrangement" option had on that electric guitar solo was stunning. If you'd been in my presence at that moment you probably would've seen my jaw drop to the floor. It was as though the "natural arrangement" option had located a hidden layer of improvisational sophistication in that particular Realtrack and turned it on, up, and out-of-the-park. It was exhilarating!

I set the natural arrangement option to "Always for all genres (unless disable for the song)". I want to see if what it did for the current song I'm working on could be duplicated in other songs, and especially for jazz styles.

Thanks for commenting on my post, Mr. Finley!

Sincerely,

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#445805 - 12/18/17 07:06 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20699
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20699
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Loren, you raise an interesting point. If I’m reading your post correctly, you say a soloist RealTrack was improved. It is my understanding that Natural Arrangement does not do that directly. Its purpose is to change chord progressions.

Your experiment suggests that changing the chord progression makes the soloist play better. I’m guessing that’s because perhaps more patterns were recorded over the ‘naturalized’ chords than were possible over the unaltered progression. This makes sense. To my knowledge this has never been discussed. It’s the same for live musicians of course: you’re going to get a better solo out of someone if they understand the chord progression better.

I would never have noticed this as I never use soloist tracks in BIAB - that’s my job. But I’m interested if others have observed what you did.
_________________________
BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#445959 - 12/18/17 10:08 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
bluage Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Your experiment suggests that changing the chord progression makes the soloist play better. I’m guessing that’s because perhaps more patterns were recorded over the ‘naturalized’ chords than were possible over the unaltered progression. This makes sense.


Mr. Finley...

Yes, I'm guessing (and hoping!) that is what happened.

When I work on songs in BIAB, I tend to click on the "Generate and Play" button over, and over, and over again until I hear an arrangement that I want to keep, or "freeze". But even when I do that, it's usually only the soloists that I "freeze", and not the drums, bass, or any rhythm pianos and guitars.

Now, the original version of the song in question was composed/created last June. I did not change the Real Style, the song form or any of the chords once I had finished composing it, which only took a single evening. From June to the present, I re-generated that song more times than I kept track of, and I never, ever heard anything that sounded even close to what I heard this week after applying the "natural arrangement" option to a copy of the original song, which has the exact same chord structure, song form (AABAA), and Real Style as the original.

Ohhh-h-h, no-o-o-o, Igor! I...I think that I have a created...a m-m-monster!!! Aiiieeee, somebody save me-e-e-e! laugh

Excited,

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#446065 - 12/19/17 11:26 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 117
CoolBreeze Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 117
Are you kidding me, it is a godsend! I'm listening to an arrangement that I did with RT, and I was thinking to myself, who in the world hired that piano player.

I haven't got use to the Piano Roll yet, so I've been relying on that feature to get me through. I can definitely tell the difference when I don't heed the yellow pop-up suggesting it.
_________________________
Windows 10 build 16299
2018 Ultra
Intel i5-3550 @ 3.3GHz
p8z77-v pro
RAM: 32GB
Roland V-Studio 100
Alesis VX49

https://soundcloud.com/dirtbom/

Top
#446160 - 12/19/17 04:13 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: CoolBreeze]
Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
bluage Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
Hey, there, "CoolBreeze"...

Right on! So, you believe you heard a significant improvement in the musicality of a Realtrack performance rendered through the "natural arrangement" feature?

Spreadin' the word,

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#446396 - 12/20/17 03:33 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
bluage Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
Fellow Friends of the Forum (and, laydies, but, of course!)...

Here's something else about the "natural arrangement" option that I want blather on about! And mind you, I'm only reporting on what I believe I'm hearing, meaning that PG Music music hasn't confirmed that what I'm relating to you was actually programmed into BIAB.

Regardless, after you apply this marvelous feature to your song, listen...listen closely. You'll hear the most deliciously subtle "slips in pitch" that, to my ears, near perfectly emulate the micro-imperfections in the instrumental performances of human beings: that slightly "wrong" note, the minutely de-tuned riffs caused by the speed with which the instrumentalist is picking, plucking, blowing, bowing, or striking her instrument.

The "natural arrangements" option is an exciting, thrilling, wonderful, humanizing addition to the list of Band-in-a-Box music rendering tools dreamed up by the seemingly inexhaustible genius of the developers at PG Music. Yeah, yeah, I know: according to dear Matt Finley, I'm a year late discovering this tool laugh !!! But I haven't seen anything written about it in the forums, so I'm ringin' the bell, knockin' on doors, blowin' the whistle and beatin' the drums to call out to everyone to use this thing!

Calming down, now,

LOREN


Edited by bluage (12/20/17 03:37 PM)
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#446416 - 12/20/17 05:44 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1973
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
sslechta Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1973
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
I was curious about this myself from this post and dug this up from the 2018 .PDF Manual:

Natural Arrangements (re-interpret complex chords)
If you give a pro musician a complicated chord progression with fancy extensions like C7b9b13 or Gm11, the musician may reinterpret these rather than playing them exactly as written. This can achieve a much better sounding arrangement because the musician has freedom to choose from similar chord extensions. You can get Band-in-a-Box to do the same thing with this option for all tracks in all songs. (Note: To set this feature for all tracks in the current song, use the option in the Song Settings dialog. To set this feature for all tracks in all songs, use the option in the Arrangement Options dialog. To set this for specific track(s) in the current song, right-click on the track radio button, go to Track Settings | Set Natural Arrangement, and select an option.).
_________________________


Steve

BIAB/RB 2020, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

Top
#446737 - 12/22/17 11:12 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: sslechta]
Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
bluage Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 953
Loc: Washington State
Hello, "sslechta"...

Thanks for your detective work laugh !

Have you used the "natural arrangement" option and, if you have, did you notice any of the results that I reported hearing in my composition?

Thanks for contributing to this thread, sir!

Sincerely

LOREN
_________________________
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".

Top
#446746 - 12/22/17 11:55 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1973
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
sslechta Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 1973
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
Loren,

I have not had a chance to play with it yet. I've just got 2018 upgraded from last year's version and haven't dabbled much yet.

Steve
_________________________


Steve

BIAB/RB 2020, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, Proteus F/X, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: 1 TB SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

Top
#593185 - 04/20/20 11:45 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 04/18/20
Posts: 7
Loc: California
Harmony Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/18/20
Posts: 7
Loc: California
I have not been able to find the "Arrangement Options" dialog box in the Mac version. Does anyone know the path to access it?

Top
#593187 - 04/20/20 12:04 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6500
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6500
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Harmony,

Welcome to the forum and to Band-in-a-Box.

One way to find the arrangement option in 2020 Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) for Mac is to:

1) Right click on a track button
2) Select "Track Settings"
3) Select "Set natural arrangement - [reinterpreted chords]"

There maybe other ways I'm not aware of. Band-in-a-Box typically has multiple ways to do something.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (734) RB (Build 5) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 2004, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#593605 - 04/22/20 10:10 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 04/18/20
Posts: 7
Loc: California
Harmony Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/18/20
Posts: 7
Loc: California
Thanks Jim. Your solution works well for a single track; but I was looking for a global solution. Apparently, there is no "Arrangement Options" dialog box in the Mac version, even though the manual shows a picture of it. I did, however, find something similar near the lower left corner of the Preferences 1 panel.

Top
#605047 - 07/03/20 07:53 PM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: bluage]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16726
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16726
Loc: Australia
Tagging on to Jim's post...

With the Windows version of the software, if I right-click on the chord sheet and then select "Song Setting" from the pop-up menu, "Natural Arrangement" options are found there. This is for adjusting on a song-by-song basis and it applies to all tracks. This is also found under "Edit | Song Form" menu.

If I choose "Options | Preferences | Arrange", there are options for setting Natural Arrangements. These settings are the default settings that open when a new chordsheet is created.

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#605133 - 07/04/20 09:38 AM [My Favorite Things] Re: Natural arrangement feature [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6500
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6500
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Noel, are all those options available on the 2020 Mac edition? I must have missed them while scanning through the Mac pdf manual.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2020 BiaB (734) RB (Build 5) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 2004, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top


PG Music News
Happy Thanksgiving!

Today our friends in the USA are celebrating Thanksgiving!

Our hours are not affected - we are here until 6pm PST!

We hope everyone has an amazing Thanksgiving!

Band-in-a-Box® for Mac - Audio Chord Wizard Overview Video

The Audio Chord Wizard included in Band-in-a-Box is a powerful feature that automatically figures out the chords from an audio file and imports them (as well as the audio) into Band-in-a-Box®, along with the bar lines, key, tempo, and fine tuning!

Check out this video, where we explain how to use the Audio Chord Wizard: Click here to watch...

Read more about the Audio Chord Wizard within our online program manual, here. Better yet - give it a try and see/hear for yourself how intelligent this feature is!

Clarinet RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box®!

It's National Clarinet Day! Who doesn't enjoy the rich & mellow sounds the clarinet delivers?

We have 20+ Clarinet RealTracks available for Band-in-a-Box®, covering Dixieland, Folk, Jazz, and World styles. You'll find these RealTracks in the following Sets:
RealTracks Set 56: Jazz, Old and New
RealTracks Set 144: Dixieland - Fast Soloists
RealTracks Set 178: Dixieland - Medium Soloists
RealTracks Set 248: Oberkrainer! Folk Music From the Alps

Clarinet RealTracks Artists include:
James Danderfer
P.J. Perry
Thomas Oberreiter

Tutorial - Downloading and Installing Your Band-in-a-Box® Purchase

When you order your copy of Band-in-a-Box® from our website you'll receive the installation files to download your order, even if you're having it shipped!

You can access these files within the My Products section of your online account.

Downloading the program is such a convenient way to get started with Band-in-a-Box®! To learn more about how to download your purchase, please review the written tutorials we've created for Windows and Mac.

200+ Saxophone RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box®!

Where would music be today without the sultry sounds of the Saxophone? Fortunately, because of Adolphe Sax, we don't have to find out!

Today we celebrate his birthday, and with that a nod to our extensive collection of Saxophone RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box®!

Saxophone RealTracks sound so amazing that they were one of the first RealTracks we developed and released for the program with Band-in-a-Box® 2007! Now there are more than 200 Saxophone RealTracks available for Jazz, Rock, Blues, Country, Funk, and Pop!

Our Saxophone RealTracks Artists include:
Eric Alexander
Eric Marienthal
Gary Smulyan
Jack Stafford
Jim Clark
Mark Douthit
P.J. Perry
Phil Woods
Tom Keenlyside

Click on their name to be taken to their bio page where you can learn more about the artists and listen to demos of all their RealTracks.

Upgrading to Band-in-a-Box® 2020 is Easy!

Did you know... anyone who has owned a previous version of Band-in-a-Box® is entitle to upgrade pricing - you do not need to have your old version installed!

Maybe you used to own the Windows version, but you now have a Mac... that's not a problem either!
(or if you owned the Mac version, and now you have a Windows computer)

In both cases, you would purchase from the "Upgrade from 2018 or earlier or crossgrade" row here for a new Mac version, or here if you want the newest Windows version. Just need to upgrade your 2019 version? Use the "Upgrade from 2019/2020" row.

When you purchase your upgrade from either of these rows, you will receive a complete installation - just follow the steps of the setup, and your Band-in-a-Box® will be ready to use!

PG Music Inc. shopping cart accounts were not required to purchase from our website prior to October 29, 2014. With that in mind, you may have to create an account in order to upgrade - that's OK! You'll still be entitled to upgrade pricing.

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Italian for Mac is Here!

Ci sono oltre 50 nuove funzionalità in Band-in-a-Box® 2020! Ci sono miglioramenti ai RealTracks (RealTracks vocali dal suono più fluido, Ispessimento RealTracks, RealTracks "Find-a-Sub" e MultiRiffs). La maggior parte dei RealDrums ora hanno RealCharts (con un'accurata Notazione di Batteria). C'è un nuovo Browser dell'artista RealTracks per trovare informazioni /bios/collegamenti/ elenchi di RealTracks su tutti gli artisti. Un nuovo Browser delle Funzionalità consente all'utente nuovo o "smemorato" di trovare e utilizzare facilmente la maggior parte delle funzionalità/tasti di scelta rapida/documenti da un'unica finestra. Equalizza Tempo consente di cambiare una canzone registrata in rubato in un tempo fisso. Stiramento del tempo/tono dell'audio migliorato (Elastique) incluso. Ci sono miglioramenti di SongPicker, Auto-Intro di Basso/Batteria o Batteria solo, 3.400 titoli aggiunti, miglioramenti di MusicXML, chitarra "per mancini" e "Vista Studente", miglioramenti del trascinamento della selezione, visualizzazione multi-finestra dell’analizzatore degli accordi audio e altro ancora!

ACQUISTA/AGGIORNA & SCARICA ADESSO!!

Forum Stats
33226 Members
67 Forums
66152 Topics
567320 Posts

Max Online: 2537 @ 01/19/20 07:09 AM
Newest Members
ChrisCoburgDe, Douglas Crane, tntxcarl, Jartsu, mpt

33225 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Pipeline 197
MarioD 163
Matt Finley 156
VideoTrack 118
CaptainMoto 115
eddie1261 113
justanoldmuso 104
Rob Helms 103
Scott C 94
BabuMusic 91
Today's Birthdays
HobbyOrgler, r.anthony, TelecasterCol