PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Copy & Paste chord / chordsheet from one arrangement to another question

BIAB has had DAW type functions for years. Landr states; "Landr defines a DAW as follows; "A digital audio workstation (DAW) is a software program used for composing, producing, recording, mixing and editing audio and MIDI. DAWs facilitate mixing of multiple sound sources on a time-based grid. There are lots of different DAWs out there, each with different strengths and weaknesses."

I've found that composing, producing, recording, mixing and editing of audio and MIDI within BIAB software program to be roughly on par with modern hardware digital multi track recorders. I consider BIAB to be a functional but not full featured DAW.

I agree that RealBand was developed and integrated With BIAB to more easily, intuitively and capably do the more advanced editing tasks than what BIAB does. So yes, it answers all those needs and problem solved.

Matt, my idea was to have all 16 tracks open as an option. Thus one could keep it as is or open them for the user.

Your idea is an excellent alternative. With this idea the option I mentioned above is not longer needed.

I'd gladly take either idea!

You can copy chords from one instance to another with the BiabPlugin.
It's getting closer now to be able to load all the song settings from Biab into the Plugin.
Down the track soon hopefully it will have play from ram as Biab does.
I used and promoted RealBand for a long time as the idea behind it is great but in the end it had too many issues and crashing compared to working in a modern 64bit DAW.
The BiabPlugin if it's all done right could be the future ?

I'm a BIAB and Realband fan. Both of them are useful to me when I create a song.

While I could manage without Realband if it wasn't around, having it available makes creating a bit easier for me.

My process is....

1) Start with BIAB.

2) Migrate to Realband.

3) Migrate to Reaper.

4) After recording vocals in Reaper, return to Realband if I need multi-part, individual track harmony

5) Return to Reaper.

Regards,
Noel

Ohh boy, thread got carried away a little, but fun read

Bob, cxp,
Since your posts are somewhat similar in nature...
"why are people reluctant to use RB?"
I will give a shot explaining my view. (Peter G. please forgive me). RB is not on par with any modern DAW and I do not see a dynamic evolution of this software. I tried it on several occasions... I know for a fact that I will not be using it as a DAW. It is easier for me to bounce tracks in BIAB and move them to DAW of choice rather than learn a piece of software just so I can have a few extra tracks. To be fair, I realize RB is a powerful tool...but not the one I would use. Same way that I would not use sledge hammer to drive 1" wall nails.
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Charlie,
I get what you are referring to. But bouncing these RTs in performance track or similar will solidify them, meaning they will not respond to further chord changes (bar changes, shots, etc.) They will be mixed audio files "playing along". Correct? If yes, unfortunately it is not for me. I need all tracks to be "liquid". Re-bouncing them will take longer and be more painful than doing this in DAW.
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What bothers me is that some folks responding to requested BIAB features and saying something like "BIAB is not a DAW, don't try to make it as one"

16 open channels, same type as 7 there now to be used for RT or MIDI in BIAB is NOT a DAW request. It is arranger request. Has nothing to do with DAW. Tricky to implement - probably. Do I really, REALLY want it? Absolutely! I would blindly trade 3-4 years of new features for 16 (or more) opened mixer tracks in BIAB. Would even trade it for "bar freeze" with exception that new mixer tracks could be copied one to another

I agree with pipeline that plugin could be the future, but also with a standalone BIAB! Standalone BIAB + Plugin sounds like a perfect duo to me. Plugin is still very young, so it is too early to make this assumption, but BIAB just needs relatively small push (compared to ALL the features it bears) to be ace.

Misha.

That's not correct. Tracks that are converted to Performance Tracks are both. They are solidified as long as the track remains a Performance Track but this action can be undone with a single click and the track reverts to it's exact prior state it was before the track was converted to a Performance Track, so the track can be liquid. In BIAB, you can bounce a track as many times as you want and it is completely a digital process meaning there is no audio degradation. The back up wav/wma files created when a Performance Track is made are erased if you erase the Performance Track but you can copy these files to another folder if you want to preserve a copy permanently.

Bouncing media on a track to a Performance Track is accessed with the Track Action Command - Save track as a Performance File (wav/wma). Note there is also the option to Save Track as WAV file -- two different operations. You can save a track as a WAV file without having to save the project SGU file. A Performance Track can only be created if the project has been named and saved.

A Performance Track can be undone by the command Erase Performance Track and it returns to the normal state of the track media before the track was converted from a normal track to a Performance Track. Several actions occur when a normal track is bounced (converted or made) into a Performance Track.

When you select Track Actions\Save track as a Performance Track (wav/wma) - the following actions occur or can occur to the track according to what you do as you continue to work on your project.

. The track is frozen
. You are prompted to save the file as a wav or wma
. The file is saved as designated wav or wma above exactly as frozen
. The saved file is saved titled with the Project name and track title
. A bt1 file is created for the track with the same naming convention
. If a plug-in is applied to the track, it's removed but the frozen track plays the saved/recorded audio track.
. If you change the song Style, the Performance Track remains and plays within the new style.
. The Performance Track replaces any other track from any style that normally resides on that track when you change styles.
. If you erase the Performance Track in the new style, the instrument on that track from the new style replaces the Performance Track.
. The track color turns to Orange


BIAB assumes when you save a track to a Performance Track, that is the final action and the state of track is exactly as you want it. The track is frozen and will no longer generate as you continue to work on the project. The track is what you are calling solidified. Meaning the track will not respond to further chord changes (bar changes, shots, etc.). The track will play and be in sync with the remaining Mixer and Style instruments and track. In the Mixer and Project, a Performance Track responds exactly as a normal 'frozen' track.

However, if for some reason you need to edit a Performance Track, you can undo the Performance Track action, return the track back to a normal track with the instrument in its normal state and render rendition as it was prior to bouncing the track to a Performance Track. Here, the track is liquid. These actions are the same regardless of the media type of the track - MIDI, MIDI Super Track, RealTrack, Loop, pre-recorded audio or Live recorded audio or a mixture or combination of any of these media types.

To undo (restore a Performance Track to its previous state) right click on the track and select Erase Performance Track. Completing this action erases the wav/wma backup file, restores the track to its prior state and media type and unfreezes the track for further editing and regeneration. You can do these actions as many times as you want.

When you convert a track to a Performance Track or Erase a Performance Track and convert it back to a normal track, you have to regenerate the song for the action to take effect.

These are some of the simple, one click actions possible from the Mixer Track Actions\Save as a Performance Track. The more complex operations occur using the Move Audio to Performance Track and Move Performance Track to the Audio Track features and functions accessed from the top tool bar - Audio Menu...

As I have already mentioned another way to get more tracks is with a VST in your DAW that sends sync to Biab set to slave mode, OR load that VST into Biab sending to another instance set to slave mode.
Here's a video demo of finding a multiriff for tracks you have in your DAW.
Track 1 Original is original track or tracks in the DAW,
track 2 is the Biab Transport VST sending play/stop/pause/bpm/ppqpos to the main Biab app,
reastream vst is loaded in Biab Master fx track sending audio,
track 3 is reastream vst receiving biab audio (AUNetSend & Receive in Mac).
Watch Video

Charlie,
I have tried your way. Well, this is kind of trying to make BIAB behave as DAW trying piece together audio things, but without the visuals. I find the process perhaps useful in some ways or particular workflows, but I am afraid it will not substitute requested extra mixer tracks.

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Pipeline, interesting concept. However too, quite involved as it requires very particular setup for each project. As many users, I try to do what needs to be done in BIAB and move to DAW. If I want additional tracks / instruments, I find it easier to:
Go back to BIAB do a "Save as" project-> change out RT's(or whatever else needs to be done)->render as individual files->import to DAW project.

The drawback is that if I change something in chord or bar structure, I have to go back to original BIAB file, re-render & re-import everything, making sure that tracks fall in the same slots in DAW if they had customized FX for particular instrument. This would be a non-issue with more mixer tracks. Also, it can be very useful in other instances, like hearing re-generations side by side, freezing "wanted" sections > muting the rest of bars on same
track. For elements, short passages that as of now take up whole mixer track on the fly without renders / re-imports. Yet, having whole composition fully acceptable to any changes in the grid/bars.

Process would be much easier, more intuitive and fluid if we had more "regular" mixer tracks available And I do hope we will see it, as it will open many creative possibilities without technical acrobatics, leaving more time for fun.

P.S. Sorry this thread went all kinds of places. Pipeline, your "import chords from SGU seems to do the job.
Thank you.

I know what you mean, I have asked many many many many times over the years years years for more tracks and nothing eventuated, I have tried so many workarounds over the years (the new RapidComposerVST is the best so far).
I think everything in Biab is built around the current amount of tracks.
They made RealBand for this purpose by adding Biab tracks to PowerTracks, this works for some users but most wanted a solid 64bit DAW, the engine behind the RealTracks in RealBand was solid but not RealBand.
So that's where the development of the BiabPlugin comes in.
That's why I have focused my energy on the BiabPlugin.
How it is now you can have 2 or more BiabPlugins in your DAW, copy chords from one to the others (allowing different chords on different instruments in another instance), you can construct a song very quickly just using a midi style and sending those midi channels out to tracks in the DAW, and changing a chord will regen in a sec or so. When you have it all how you like you can generate up the RealTracks/Drums, though having play from ram will be great.
In the BiabPlugin it should be soon added to highlight x bars and drag that section out into the DAW.
You can generate up whole track multiriffs and drag out any section of bars.
Each track can be soloed and preview along with the current tracks in the DAW before dragging in.
There are just so many possibilities with the BiabPlugin and not the limitations of Biab DAW Plug-In Mode.
I think the main design of Biab is for auto accompaniment, but yes still add bar 2 bar regen.

Pipeline, call me lazy or something else...
I am watching plugin closely, but it is still very stripped down compared to BIAB. Another thing, plugin is within DAW, so even if it gains all the features of BIAB, it would still be environment(Plugin) within environment(DAW). I would like to have BIAB (or future re-incarnation) as a standalone program too. As big boys at NI (Kontakt, etc.) or other soft devs have it: Standalone + Plugin. And in case of Komplete or Halion, I am using both: a standalone and plugin.

I do see myself using PG plugin in the future, when it matures further, but not yet. Same as with BIAB. I tried it a decade+ ago and it did not cut it for me. Now, it is a software of choice and I am sure it will stay with me for many years as I only begun scratching the surface of content.

As I get older my requirements need things to be more simple, More tracks in biab is essential for me. Please consider us oldies and simplicity.

Hi Pipeline, I wish that my brain was as athletic as yours but unfortunately its not and I can't keep up with your brilliant workouts. Please keep them up as I know that your efforts are really appreciated. Thanks.

Thanks ! I hope Gladys is looking after you down there.

More than 6 + 1 Instruments and better handling of more complex MIDI files

<<< ...this is kind of trying to make BIAB behave as DAW trying piece together audio things, but without the visuals. >>>

No. What I described above is the single click, single track processes and in these examples, APT's act more like advanced freezing operations meant to focus on the difference that a track can be frozen and solidified so the track no longer "respond to further chord changes (bar changes, shots, etc.) They will be mixed audio files "playing along"..." and if you want "all tracks to be "liquid".... A single click 'unfreezes' the track 'liquefying' it for further editing.

The multi track DAW editing, merging, mixing, panning, volume automation, multiple styles operations are accessed from the Audio Tool Menu.