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would this be a disaster? I've always mixed thru the JBL ref. spkrs in my studio. I'm now further along in age with a somewhat hearing impairment and am thinking a pair of good quality headphones (sen HD-4.5 BTNC) might work better for ME than the JBL's. would app anyones feedback
5string
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Head phones are a great way to mix.
But, it depends on the headphones and how flat they are.
I mix everything using headphones - audio-technica ATH-M40fs.
They are great for mixing.
However.
When I've finished - gotten to where I think it is a "finished" mix...I then listen through studio monitors - Yorkville YSM-1.
Almost every mix needs some small amount of adjustment to get the best sound through the Yorkvilles - usually some bottom taken out of a few things and a bit of highs bumped in others.
Once I've done that and return to the headphones the improvement (from using the studio monitors as the final call) is obvious.
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I have a reasonable set of speakers on my music pc but not monitor quality. I set them up with a commercial recording i like to get the eq right and then i know i'm comparing my mix with the professional one. But i mix mainly on a good set of headphones and then as floyd says try the mix on the speakers.
I also do a test by making an mp3 of the mix (yes I know p3 loses a lot according to purists but i can't really hear it!)
then i play the mp3 through my big hifi with an ipod. at each stage i might hear something to change and like floyd says the improvement usually show when i return to the headphones.
If i could afford a set of studio monitors and a dedicated studio listening environment I would probably just mix on the monitors. but i would also try it (as I used to when I was the client at professional recording sessions)on small speakers so i could judge what it sounded like on the tv or radio.
but i have a limited budget so i do the best i can. most of my stuff goes onto cds for personal use and i always have the option of remixing if after repeated listening i hear something i don't like.
and after all, i'm an amateur these days so as log as i can get a sound i'm happy with i'm quite content.
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Hi Fivestring, I love to listen in more than one environment on my mixes. I have a pair of JBL 8" Powered Monitors and a set of Sony MDR-7506 headphones that I use. The perfect tool to get a good and accurate response for both is the following: Sonarworks Reference 4For my speakers they provide a test mic to calibrate my JBLs to the room and it's bad frequencies. Then on the headphone side they have hundreds of headphone models to establish a flat response. I checked the Sennheiser model you are looking to buy and they do offer a preset for that model. This tool isn't required when using headphones but it does go a long way into improving the sound when you do have to use them. The software is free to try so you can test with the headphones you do get and see if it helps you. My two cents. Good Luck with your headphone shopping!
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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Like floyd jane, I also like/recommend the ATH-M40fs headphones for audio work like mixing, editing, etc.
They are nice flat clear 'phones, and the price is more than acceptable.
I have noticed they need a little more drive than some other headphones (but not as much as the old AKG-240's) to sound nice and loud/clear.
I've owned other more expensive ATH headphones and have gladly traded them for the less expensive ATH-M40 pair. <grin>
The newer ATH-M40X are just as nice IMHO.
That said, I was not as impressed with the more expensive M50 or M60 line.
They pushed the bass frequencies (to me) making it harder to get an accurate mix.
Always check your mix in monitors too before calling it done, but there are times you need to mix in headphones, and the M40's allow you to do so pretty dang well.
Last edited by rharv; 05/13/20 04:14 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I do the reverse - check my final mix in headphones, especially to find phase cancellation. But if my hearing were going, I think I would do what is recommended here: use flat closed headphones, then check the mix on monitors (and a boombox, and my car, and earpods etc.).
About flat response: when I was starting out, I had SONY 7506 cans. Still have them, several replacement pads later. But then I bought the next model up, the 7509, thinking they would be even better. Big mistake. The 7509 are nowhere near as flat, emphasizing the bass.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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About flat response: when I was starting out, I had SONY 7506 cans. Still have them, several replacement pads later. Same here. Replacements don't last quite as long as the originals did.
Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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I use something similar to what Steve mentioned re: Sonarworks. I have the Waves Abbey Road Studio 3 with AKG headphones. If I think I got the mix right, it is great to tell me if I really did it, and is reliable--to me, anyway. It usually tells me to turn up the drums.  No matter what I do though, I trust my meters, not my ears, and have numerous track templates and board templates for acoustics, electrics, drums, bass on and on, with many plugins tweaked for each instrument. I have found that meters rarely lie. When I get everything where I think it should be I run it through Abbey Road to hear how it all turned out. If it sounds great there, it sounds great on speakers. The last four songs I posted on the forum were done this way. https://www.waves.com/plugins/abbey-road-studio-3#presenting-the-waves-abbey-road-studio-3-plugin
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AKG K240 - budget (but great for the money) or AKG K240 MKII better Or K702... Very neutral and well balanced.
All above are semi-open backs. For some reason I get dizzy with closed back headphones.
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hey guys - many many tks 4 the coaching,suggestions & replies. that gives me a lot more than i had to go on.
5stromg
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Well there are pros and cons to mixing on headphones, same too with using monitors. Ideally speaking, using both is better. Or failing that, really knowing what sound you're going to get with what you're using and how to compensate for it.
I find panning and stereo imaging more difficult to gauge on headphones. Listening on cans is different to listening to speakers. Each ear only hears whats coming from the relevant channel, but with speakers both ears are hearing signal coming from both left and right channels. There are some timing differences here and it forms the basis of the stereo illusion (phantom image between speakers etc). With headphones you don't get this. Personally I never feel it to be a true stereo image.
But that's not to say it doesn't have it's uses for reference. Also if your room acoustics aren't great then headphones can provide a good option. Really though, it's about getting to know the response of the headphones and accommodating for it.
Cheers,
Deryk
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I agree Deryk. For me the panning sounds dramatically different with phones. My process, FWIW, is to mix with our KRK’s and then listen on our larger living room system that has a sub and on our mono HomePod. If it sounds “good” on all them I stick a fork in it. One caveat is that with so many folks listening nowadays with earbuds I may well be missing something needed. Dunno. And, BTW, did I mention my old ears are shot? Bud
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The above posts are true; you have to learn your equipment and not trust one source when mixing.
Play the resulting mix everywhere you can (phone, car, home theater, studio monitors etc) and then judge.
But also learn what your original mixing source 'caused'.
This is part of the 'Learn To Trust Your Ears' concept;
If your headphones produce too much bass, and thus you lower the bass in the mix, but then it sounds tinny everywhere else .. well you learned something.
Your headphones are bass heavy.
Once you learn this you can either;
1. compensate moving forward
2. get headphones that don't produce too much bass
Once this is solved, learning how to 'hear' the image in the headphones as far as stereo becomes a much more solvable task.
Simple example: import your end result stereo wav file into RB to two separate mono channels .. and pan them to less of a 100% R/L mix. In RB you would (for instance) set the panning for the L/R to 60 and -60 to bring the image (perceived appearance of the stereo field) a little more narrow.
Just because you use headphones doesn't mean you can't test your mix in differing 'live' scenarios, or at least approximate it.
But even then, go listen in the car, living room, phone .. anywhere a real person may listen. You can't cover every possible scenario (there is no 'BrowserStack for Audio' where you can test on multiple devices at will) but we can try by testing with everything we have. <grin>
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Head phones are a great way to mix.
But, it depends on the headphones and how flat they are.
I mix everything using headphones - audio-technica ATH-M40fs.
They are great for mixing.
However.
When I've finished - gotten to where I think it is a "finished" mix...I then listen through studio monitors - Yorkville YSM-1.
Almost every mix needs some small amount of adjustment to get the best sound through the Yorkvilles - usually some bottom taken out of a few things and a bit of highs bumped in others.
Once I've done that and return to the headphones the improvement (from using the studio monitors as the final call) is obvious. This is my approach too. I use headphones to zero in on an initial mix. I use the same headphones as floyd. Then I alternate between headphones and speakers until both sources sit comfortably with me when I A/B them. For the final test, I leave the mix for at least 24 hours and test it first thing in the morning before I have heard any other music. I've found that when my ears are rested and refreshed, I more clearly hear the mix.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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It really doesn't matter what you use as long as you know what the end product sounds like on various playback systems. I have a friend who produces great sounding covers, regardless of the playback system, and he uses his home stereo system's speakers for monitors. He knows what settings to use when he is recording.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Agree with Mario's friend, I have my home hi fi next to pc, to listen to music from pc and to hear myself recording , mixing and mastering.
Most of what we listen to music from is a hi fi source, so I need to know how it will sound through the hi fi source.
I use the beyerdynamics dt770 headphones.
It is good to know folks set up as You always live and learn.
I have had numerous flat response monitors active and passive and I've always went back to my Arcam hi fi set up.
Last edited by beatmaster; 05/15/20 04:09 AM.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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