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Thanks Jim. The I learned two things. 1/ I use speaker line out of the computer to my speakers. I am pretty sure that is analog. But I did not know that some send their computer output to a USB box which converts to analog and sends to a speaker. 2/ I did not know about the buffer size concepts. That makes sense. I am guessing the video for recording midi with BIAB should talk about that. I also put it in my Course outline: Getting the BIAB midi (melody and solo tracks) to sound realJohn
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For your #1: all speakers are analog at the end, by moving a cone that moves air. After that, things get interesting. Speakers can be powered or not.
Powered speakers take the line level signal (line out). Unpowered speakers require a separate power amp.
There’s more. There’s always more.
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There’s more. There’s always more. Yes, I forgot about my notebook during jams sending microphone out backing tracks (analog) to a mixer which in turn sends line out to powered speakers. But still that is analog going out of the computer. Sounds great with those deep powerful 250 watt each pair of speakers :-)
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For thoroughly authentic piano and organ sounds you might want to check out physical instrument simulations such as -> Pianoteq Pianoteq ... I am really not impressed, the piano's sound canned, a little distorted. Too much cheap sounding reverb. It may be worth trying again with the demo. There's control over the reverb, or you can do your own in a DAW or whatever, but a really nice feature is the "condition" control almost hidden away just above the keyboard. With that you can adjust the modelling of the piano from "mint" to totally clapped out. Somewhere a little way from "Mint" tends to sound more authentic. Brand nianos need running in to sound best ... Pianoteq has an adjustment. YMMV. Gordon.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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For a few years now I have considered buying a Fishman TriplePlay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller but held back mostly because I just didn't have enough knowledge required to take the plunge. I remember asking if this device could be used to record directly into BIAB and no one answered. So while creating my Course outline: Getting the BIAB midi (melody and solo tracks) to sound real I discovered this Recording MIDI in Band-in-a-Box video and it appears maybe I can use the triple play to record a midi melody directly into BIAB. Last night I noticed BIAB has a Quantize Melody feature under (Melody, edit melody track, quantize time adjust, quantize melody). So I am wondering if I can get a somewhat articulated (volume changes at least) midi melody into BIAB with the triple play then use the BIAB quantize feature to clean up the lead sheet and also make it sound like a real instrument by using the the "sforzando SFZ Synth" or "Coyote ForteDXi" currently mentioned at the bottom of my Course outline. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I likely to be able to get the midi melody directly into BIAB with the Triple Play? Does the BIAB quantize feature work well? What sorts of articulations can BIAB record into the midi melody or solo track and play back and why? What sorts of instruments will sound real with the "sforzando SFZ Synth" or "Coyote ForteDXi" ( assuming the person is purposely not adjusting the timing of the printed melody which I normally do in jazz before the solos start - I only monkey with the melody timing after the solos).
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/22/20 12:45 PM.
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John, You and other readers interested in guitar midi controllers may find +++ THIS +++ message thread informative. The thread compares the Fishman, Jamstick and Roland hardware. The forum is run by Jam Origin who sells monophonic and polyphonic audio to midi software. They offer software for bass and guitar with violin software in beta. There is demo software to try. Regardless of the midi guitar solution you select I believe you'll discover you'll need to adapt your playing technique to achieve the degree of accuracy you expect.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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..................
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I likely to be able to get the midi melody directly into BIAB with the Triple Play?
Yes BiaB will record MIDI regardless of what kind of MIDI controller is used.
Does the BIAB quantize feature work well?
I do not record in BiaB but I would suspect the quantize should work well.
What sorts of articulations can BIAB record into the midi melody or solo track and play back and why?
It should and probably will record every articulation that the Triple Play can send like pitch bends, vibrato, etc
What sorts of instruments will sound real with the "sforzando SFZ Synth" or "Coyote ForteDXi" (assuming the person is purposely not adjusting the timing of the printed melody which I normally do in jazz before the solos start - I only monkey with the melody timing after the solos).
The Triple Play comes with a number of included sounds that may sound better then either the SFZ or Coyote. I have found that woodwinds, brass, and guitars do not sound real in these inexpensive sound sources. You can help them by learning what articulations the instrument has and what MIDI controller will work that emulation but the better sound sources have those articulations already available, i.e. things like growl for sax and horns, staccato, real legato, etc.
Note that I don't have the Triple Play, I have an old Casio MG510 MIDI guitar controller and that I do all of my recording in my DAW, Studio One Pro 5. You will have more options when recording in a DAW; things like recording on multiple tracks and cutting and pasting, punch in and punch out recording, the ability to record many different instruments on different tracks, etc.
I hope this helps a little.
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Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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John, You and other readers interested in guitar midi controllers may find +++ THIS +++ message thread informative. The thread compares the Fishman, Jamstick and Roland hardware. Thanks Jim, I will study that forum for sure. Might take me a while :-) John
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[quote=bowlesj]..................
The Triple Play comes with a number of included sounds that may sound better then either the SFZ or Coyote. I have found that woodwinds, brass, and guitars do not sound real in these inexpensive sound sources. You can help them by learning what articulations the instrument has and what MIDI controller will work that emulation but the better sound sources have those articulations already available, i.e. things like growl for sax and horns, staccato, real legato,
Thanks MarioD. Very helpful. What you wrote in the quote above leads to some questions. Is it likely that the Triple Play sounds can be used by BIAB? If yes would this be done via the plug in feature BIAB has which is described in this Using VST Plugins with Band-in-a-Box video? I did a Google search "using fishman triple play midi GUITAR controller plugins" and found only this one video The Fishman Tripleplay VST Plugin. I am taking a wild guess that these companies write plugins so they get more sales and these plugins have special install or use instructions. In my case the use would probably be during BIAB backing track output at a live jam. However lately I create backing track .wav files which are used mostly in Audacity since Jazz Jams Club members don't want to spend a lot of money. Each member participating in a song sends their track out to all other members who are participating and this way each participant can mix whatever way they want. So the plug in would mostly be used to simulate the melody meaning eventually a member will replace the BIAB melody with their playing the melody. However some songs might have a backing track record lift in the soloists track (a midi track). If it sounds good they may want to keep it. I just went back to the Fishman TriplePlay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller website. Other than mentioning there is a VST this is all I found. --The triple play Works with any music software that accepts class-compliant MIDI This BIAB forum thread on using the Fishman Triple Play with BIAB may be interesting.
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/22/20 04:14 PM.
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[quote=bowlesj]..................
The Triple Play comes with a number of included sounds that may sound better then either the SFZ or Coyote. I have found that woodwinds, brass, and guitars do not sound real in these inexpensive sound sources. You can help them by learning what articulations the instrument has and what MIDI controller will work that emulation but the better sound sources have those articulations already available, i.e. things like growl for sax and horns, staccato, real legato,
Thanks MarioD. Very helpful. What you wrote in the quote above leads to some questions. Is it likely that the Triple Play sounds can be used by BIAB? Since I do not have the Triple Play nor do I record in BiaB this is just my best guess. Yes, you should be able to use the Triple Play VSTis in BiaB. Select triple Play as your input and the VSTi as your output and all should be good. If yes would this be done via the plug in feature BIAB has which is described in this Using VST Plugins with Band-in-a-Box video? I did a Google search "using fishman triple play midi GUITAR controller plugins" and found only this one video The Fishman Tripleplay VST Plugin. I am taking a wild guess that these companies write plugins so they get more sales and these plugins have special install or use instructions. In my case the use would probably be during BIAB backing track output at a live jam. However lately I create backing track .wav files which are used mostly in Audacity since Jazz Jams Club members don't want to spend a lot of money. Each member participating in a song sends their track out to all other members who are participating and this way each participant can mix whatever way they want. So the plug in would mostly be used to simulate the melody meaning eventually a member will replace the BIAB melody with their playing the melody. However some songs might have a backing track record lift in the soloists track (a midi track). If it sounds good they may want to keep it. The reason Triple Play, East West, and others are making VSTis for MIDI guitars is that each company is optimizing those VSTi presets for either specific models, like Triple Play, or for guitar MIDI controllers in general. Many soft synths like Kontakt are optimized for keyboard controllers but some third party presets are optimized for other controllers. In fact I have to go into the guts of Kontakt on some presets in order to use my wind controller. I just went back to the Fishman TriplePlay Wireless MIDI Guitar Controller website. Other than mentioning there is a VST this is all I found. --The triple play Works with any music software that accepts class-compliant MIDI This BIAB forum thread on using the Fishman Triple Play with BIAB may be interesting.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thank MarioD. I have it on my to do list to update my course outline with the info You and Jim have provided and from what I learn from Jim's recommended thread and that thread I found on using the triple play with BIAB. It will take me a while to get this done but it won't be forgotten. Eventually I will probably get a triple play or something similar. I like the wireless idea. At that point I will probably start to tweak the course outline (replacing the questions with answers). I use it as a reference fairly often already.
John
Last edited by bowlesj; 07/23/20 05:29 AM.
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This is interesting. I guess some of the reason some of the midi instruments sound similar to the real instrument (with every attempt to avoid articulations).
https://audiouniversityonline.com/why-do-instruments-sound-different/#:~:text=The%20reason%20the%20same%20musical,has%20a%20unique%20harmonic%20character.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
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The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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